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At This Point, Whats Is Your Preference?

NCHoosier32

Coaches  

65 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your choice?

    • Steve Alford
      4
    • Nate Oats
      9
    • Gregg Marshall
      1
    • Keith Smart
      4
    • John Beilein
      8
    • If we can't get Stevens, Donovan, Beard, Matta, Drew, or Bennett just stick with CAM
      24
    • Other?
      15

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13th&Jackson

13th&Jackson

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Why is everyone so opposed to an older coach? I guess it depends on your definition of older, but IMO if there is a change at some point, IU should be looking at an established coach with a proven Power 5 track record. 

Beilein was in his mid-50's when he took over at Michigan. Roy Williams was in his early/mid 50's when he took over UNC. Lon Kruger was in his late 50's when he took over Oklahoma. Sampson was in his late 50's when he took over at Houston. Leonard Hamilton was in his early 50's when he took over FSU (by the way, can't believe he's been at FSU for almost 20 years). Rick Barnes was around 59/60 when he took over at Tennessee. 

It seems to me, if there is a change, IU should be looking for coaches with those types of profiles to solidify the program for a decade+, get the program back to competing at the high end of the conference and making tournament runs. A been there, done that type of coach, unless there is a no-brainer younger coach which I doubt there is. 

I’d be fine with a coach in their 50s but not late 60s as some are proposing 

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BGleas

BGleas

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said:

I don't think he would but you never know.  Rick Carlisle was fired by the Pacers and he was a pretty good coach imo.  Jerry Sloan got fired.

Yeah, sure anything is of course possible. Those examples though are really apples and oranges. Completely different situations. 

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HoosierJax

HoosierJax

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Why is everyone so opposed to an older coach? I guess it depends on your definition of older, but IMO if there is a change at some point, IU should be looking at an established coach with a proven Power 5 track record. 

Beilein was in his mid-50's when he took over at Michigan. Roy Williams was in his early/mid 50's when he took over UNC. Lon Kruger was in his late 50's when he took over Oklahoma. Sampson was in his late 50's when he took over at Houston. Leonard Hamilton was in his early 50's when he took over FSU (by the way, can't believe he's been at FSU for almost 20 years). Rick Barnes was around 59/60 when he took over at Tennessee. 

It seems to me, if there is a change, IU should be looking for coaches with those types of profiles to solidify the program for a decade+, get the program back to competing at the high end of the conference and making tournament runs. A been there, done that type of coach, unless there is a no-brainer younger coach which I doubt there is. 

When i say older im talking 65+...50's is not older to me

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BobSaccamanno

BobSaccamanno

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

The 28 Highest-Paid College Basketball Coaches in 2020 - TheStreet

There are only 3 coaches making over 5 million and they are Cal, coach K and Mick Cronin.  Archie is only making less than $700,000 than Roy Williams and right at 1 Mil less than bill Self.  to me you don't just throw out huge money for any coach and if those top coaches aren't available then it doesn't matter what you pay.

If you want a decent name along the lines we are discussing you will have to pay him accordingly.  

We overpaid for Archie.  That’s obvious to even his biggest supporters.  The solution is not to throw $4 M at a mediocrity like Alford.  The mistake we made was putting a number out for the job.  You pay the guy and what it takes to get him based on his market value.  

If you want Beard, you will have to be in the $5-$6 million zone at the least.  It’s fairly obvious.  He’s in Lubbock.  That is West Texas and if you’ve never been there, it’s out in the middle of nowhere.  It’s a football school.  It’s hardly the most appealing place.  I thought I heard Beard is from Austin.  Those are drastically different environments.  I’m willing to bet Beard moved if you make it worth his while. 

If Stevens were ever a serious topic, hypothetically, you need to reward him with Cal/K money.  Donovan isn’t picking up the phone unless it’s that type of financial package.  If he were ever to go to back to college we have the home advantage. Husband and wife from Indiana.  Zionsville to DePauw to Lilly to Butler.  It’s right out of the dream Indiana playbook.  But you can’t get him without digging deep because others will. 

The fan base talks big names and then we get the next Archie because of what we are offering.  If there’s one big name that night not require huge bucks, it’s Matta because of his health concerns.  

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IU Scott

IU Scott

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said:

If you want a decent name along the lines we are discussing you will have to pay him accordingly.  

We overpaid for Archie.  That’s obvious to even his biggest supporters.  The solution is not to throw $4 M at a mediocrity like Alford.  The mistake we made was putting a number out for the job.  You pay the guy and what it takes to get him based on his market value.  

If you want Beard, you will have to be in the $5-$6 million zone at the least.  It’s fairly obvious.  He’s in Lubbock.  That is West Texas and if you’ve never been there, it’s out in the middle of nowhere.  It’s a football school.  It’s hardly the most appealing place.  I thought I heard Beard is from Austin.  Those are drastically different environments.  I’m willing to bet Beard moved if you make it worth his while. 
If Stevens were ever a serious topic, hypothetically, you need to reward him with Cal/K money.  If he were ever to go to back to college we have the home advantage. Husband and wife from Indiana.  Zionsville to DePauw to Lilly to Butler.  It’s right out of the dream Indiana playbook.  But you can’t get him without digging deep because others will. 

From what I have read and heard he loves Texas and doesn't want to leave and he is already making over 4 million there

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BGleas

BGleas

Posted
Posted
Just now, BobSaccamanno said:

If you want a decent name along the lines we are discussing you will have to pay him accordingly.  

We overpaid for Archie.  That’s obvious to even his biggest supporters.  The solution is not to throw $4 M at a mediocrity like Alford.  The mistake we made was putting a number out for the job.  You pay the guy and what it takes to get him based on his market value.  

If you want Beard, you will have to be in the $5-$6 million zone at the least.  It’s fairly obvious.  He’s in Lubbock.  That is West Texas and if you’ve never been there, it’s out in the middle of nowhere.  It’s a football school.  It’s hardly the most appealing place.  I thought I heard Beard is from Austin.  Those are drastically different environments.  I’m willing to bet Beard moved if you make it worth his while. 
If Stevens were ever a serious topic, hypothetically, you need to reward him with Cal/K money.  If he were ever to go to back to college we have the home advantage. Husband and wife from Indiana.  Zionsville to DePauw to Lilly to Butler.  It’s right out of the dream Indiana playbook.  But you can’t get him without digging deep because others will. 

IU didn't overpay for Archie. That was the market value for him. 

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HoosierJax

HoosierJax

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

If you want a decent name along the lines we are discussing you will have to pay him accordingly.  

We overpaid for Archie.  That’s obvious to even his biggest supporters.  The solution is not to throw $4 M at a mediocrity like Alford.  The mistake we made was putting a number out for the job.  You pay the guy and what it takes to get him based on his market value.  

If you want Beard, you will have to be in the $5-$6 million zone at the least.  It’s fairly obvious.  He’s in Lubbock.  That is West Texas and if you’ve never been there, it’s out in the middle of nowhere.  It’s a football school.  It’s hardly the most appealing place.  I thought I heard Beard is from Austin.  Those are drastically different environments.  I’m willing to bet Beard moved if you make it worth his while. 
If Stevens were ever a serious topic, hypothetically, you need to reward him with Cal/K money.  If he were ever to go to back to college we have the home advantage. Husband and wife from Indiana.  Zionsville to DePauw to Lilly to Butler.  It’s right out of the dream Indiana playbook.  But you can’t get him without digging deep because others will. 

I would love Stevens....but I think hes Happy where he is...unless he gets let go,it is professional basketball...as for Beard he was a Knight assistant for 10 years at TT i just wonder if the appeal of Indiana would attract him..plus a few million .

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13th&Jackson

13th&Jackson

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, HoosierJax said:

I would love Stevens....but I think hes Happy where he is...unless he gets let go,it is professional basketball...as for Beard he was a Knight assistant for 10 years at TT i just wonder if the appeal of Indiana would attract him..plus a few million .

To me Beard would be the perfect hire for IU. Has the CBK pedigree without the baggage. Not flashy and his teams play hard, able to beat teams with more talent. Has been successful with transfers which will be critical in modern CBB

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IUFLA

IUFLA

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Feathery said:

Lol. My wife would laugh if she read your comments about the world revolving around my “feelings”. That would be something that nobody would ever say about me.
 

To me making a change doesn’t mean failure. Change is needed because failure has already happened. I’ve seen enough to say Archie has failed. He doesn’t need 5 years to prove that point  I understand the money constraints  

For perspective my career has me over a surgery department. If my results were at the level of Archie Miller’s at IU, I would be fired. You, as a patient, wouldn’t come close to coming to a hospital that had results at the success of Archie Miller. This isn’t rocket science, it isn’t life or death, it’s basketball. If he can’t put a winner on the court then move.  

Since it’s just entertainment to you and a journey, then you won’t mind the “you people” discussing better basketball coaches that could return IU to at least a top half conference team.  
 

 

Lol. You see this team for 2 hours twice a week and you've "seen enough to know Archie has failed." 

Face it...you know nothing about the culture he's built, the relationship with the kids, or the other internal workings of the program. You see what we all see. Nothing more.

As for your analogy to your position, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Seems to me you're trying to somehow equate running a surgical unit to running a college basketball program. If you go back and read that it really doesn't make sense. Of course you could have been just letting me know "who I'm dealing with." I call that trying to "big time" someone. I'm not a big fan of it, particularly on a basketball message board. Let's just say my resume stacks up, and leave it at that. 

And yes...you're concerned how YOU feel. Not how the coaches or the players, or anyone else feels. Doesn't matter to you if those kids that chose to play for Archie Miller have their lives upended, as long as you can sit on a basketball message board and gripe about it. 

And yeah, it is entertainment to me. That doesn't mean I don't care about the culture and the people who actually make up the program itself. As I said, look at the "investment" you actually have in the program as opposed to 15 players and a coaching staff. 

Then go about your fantasy coach choice.

I'm saving my eggs...

 

 

 

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BGleas

BGleas

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Like I said I was not in favor of the hire but he was considered the top candidate that year.

Exactly. Of the realistically available guys (taking Stevens, Donovan, etc. out of it), Archie was considered one of the most sought after, if not the most, young coaches in the country and that it would take a Blue Blood to get him. His alma mater couldn't even get him. 

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BobSaccamanno

BobSaccamanno

Posted
Posted

As of now, to me Beard would be my top choice.   He has a $3 M buyout and makes over $4 M.  We’d have to make a big financial commitment to get him. 

As far as style of play on both ends, I like his approach.  

I like Matta. If his back is fine, he’d be good too and the money is more reasonable. 

Oats is interesting.  He puts pressure on you on both ends but there’s a bit too much one on one ball for my taste.    

But it’s a whole different list of names if we aren’t going all in.  

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BGleas

BGleas

Posted
Posted
Just now, NCHoosier32 said:

Yeah, I do see a difference when you're talking maybe say mid 60s.  Otherwise I don't really care how old they are.  

My hope is still that Archie gets this going, but if/when a move is made I'd actually prefer a coach in his late 40's/50's that has a proven Power 5 track record. 

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BobSaccamanno

BobSaccamanno

Posted
Posted
Just now, BGleas said:

Exactly. Of the realistically available guys (taking Stevens, Donovan, etc. out of it), Archie was considered one of the most sought after, if not the most, young coaches in the country and that it would take a Blue Blood to get him. His alma mater couldn't even get him. 

Besides Ohio State, do you recall who else was hot on his trail?  I know Illinois was looking elsewhere.  

In hindsight, he was a big overpay. He’s not $3 M coach. At least not now.  

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BGleas

BGleas

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Besides Ohio State, do you recall who else was hot on his trail?  I know Illinois was looking elsewhere.  

In hindsight, he was a big overpay. He’s not $3 M coach. At least not now.  

He was widely considered the hottest young coach on the market. His own alma mater wanted and couldn't get him. IU did not overpay for him. His pay is aligned with his market value at the time of his hire. 

For whatever reasons it has not worked out to this point. It may still, it may not, but his pay is perfectly inline with his market value at the time. 

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IU Scott

IU Scott

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Besides Ohio State, do you recall who else was hot on his trail?  I know Illinois was looking elsewhere.  

In hindsight, he was a big overpay. He’s not $3 M coach. At least not now.  

Just because a hire did not work doesn't mean at the time it was an over pay

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