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Ohio State Pre Game Thread


IUFLA

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4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I'll just say this and then I'll drop it...

We're 4th in the B1G in defensive rating. 12th in offense. Yet we're 6-6 in the toughest conference there is...And it's mainly because of defense...You can put all the effort you want in offense, but sometimes the shots just don't fall...

Defense, I've always been told, is always effort based, so as I said, not buying the "lack of effort."

 

I’m talking about the first 10 mins of the game - exclusively.  Not how they finish.  Not where they are in the rankings.   I agree with you on most things - I like their grit. I love these guys. They fight. Etc.      

 

im referencing their first 10 mins of some games.   That’s all.   Not an overall performance.  
 

As Billigsley pointed out - Fisch discussed this about witnessing them during warmups some games (believe that was right after Rutgers).  And Archie has talked about their slow starts in some games.      

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I dont have any big expectations that we'll win this game, but if Archie is going to be "the guy", then at some point he's got to go on a season-turning run that catapults the program, and this seems like a good game to get that going. 

Getting a 3rd win in a row, two against ranked teams, says something to the rest of the conference and sets IU up for a strong end to the season. 

Again, I'm not expecting it, but at some point if this is going to work long-term it needs to happen. 

It not only gets some of the down fans back on Archie's side, but it then gives real hope heading into next year. 

If you can’t win 3-4 games in a row in season how are you going to make a tournament run? Agree he has to generate momentum.

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54 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Regarding the slow starts, that has become routine for this team. We were down 13 vs Iowa and 14 vs NW. Avoiding the slow starts and scoring droughts pushes this team into the upper echelon.

Really need a lineup change IMO. Rob and Al play to many minutes together. The ball kind of sticks in their hands. Our offense is usually pretty bad when both are in the game at the same time. I’d send Rob back to the bench and start someone else. How many times are we going to let the freshmen come in around the 11-12 minute mark and bail us out before we make a change? 
 

I’ll continue to say our best lineup is Lander, Franklin, Leal, Race, TJD. You don’t have to start them but those 5 need to be on the floor at the same time every game. I was very disappointed I didn’t see that lineup against Northwestern after they were so good together against Iowa. 

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Until Rob figures it out he needs to be out of starting lineup and back around 15-20 minutes a game. Give the other 10-15 minutes he usually plays to other guys. If it was December I understand sticking with him but It’s February. We have no more time to wait on him to figure it out. We’ve been waiting all year actually. 

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40 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Just call Fish ask him how we are in warm-ups and that will tell the story. He talks about it all the time. Also about 10 years ago there was a study done by people doing college and high school games and they tracked which team went harder in warm up. Not scientific for sure very subjective but in almost 70 % of those games that team won. 

The observations about the warm ups are absolutely concerning to me...I think that you can trace our strange and lackadaisical response to big games back before Archie to the culture after Yogi left, but if we are going to change it we need to turn over every stone and think through every routine, every lineup, every warm up and find a way to fix it...

That said, I perceive some of our early game issues to be a mixture of things, but maybe most prominently a confidence issue. I think that our team is always in a wait and see mode, we are always wondering how things are going to go. Are we going to hit shots? we'll see. Is the other team going to torch us from outside? we'll see. Are we going to be able to make key plays? we'll see. We wait for a big play to get us going rather than getting ourselves going and creating the big moments. It's almost like our guys have PTSD from things going poorly the last four years (Like Northwestern has, or Iowa's fade each march....there's always a "here we go again" feeling whenever something goes wrong...

I think you can add in a lack of leadership and some lack of relationship between Archie and the players...they don't seem that connected to him if you ask me and so there is a sense that they are not running through the wall for him...

But, I think that they are ready from an effort standpoint MOST of the time (not always)...

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If you all want some optimism for the near future with this team, check this out.  Since that Purdue debacle IU is shooting the 3 ball much better over the last 5 games:

-3 pt FG% last 5 games: 41% (36/88)

And for as much as we harp on the FT shooting, it hasn't been terrible over the past 5 either

-FT% last 5 games: 66% (98/148)

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36 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

Until Rob figures it out he needs to be out of starting lineup and back around 15-20 minutes a game. Give the other 10-15 minutes he usually plays to other guys. If it was December I understand sticking with him but It’s February. We have no more time to wait on him to figure it out. We’ve been waiting all year actually. 

Archie last year said he doesn’t change starters later in the season bc it messes with guys (Brunk last year).  I don’t see the lineup changing, but as I posted earlier, I wonder if Lander will come in a lot sooner than normal starting tomorrow?   

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Just now, Bustout said:

Archie last year said he doesn’t change starters later in the season bc it messes with guys (Brunk last year).  I don’t see the lineup changing, but as I posted earlier, I wonder if Lander will come in a lot sooner than normal starting tomorrow?   

I agree with that to an extend but if the lineup you are starting  is killing you game after game I’d change it but hopefully like you said Lander comes in quickly at least. 

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7 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

I agree with that to an extend but if the lineup you are starting  is killing you game after game I’d change it but hopefully like you said Lander comes in quickly at least. 

Don’t disagree, but maybe Archie thinks if he benches Rob, he loses Rob for the season if he’s gone mentally and has been “benched”. 

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1 hour ago, mchenry34 said:

I think you can add in a lack of leadership and some lack of relationship between Archie and the players...they don't seem that connected to him if you ask me and so there is a sense that they are not running through the wall for him...

I'm curious as to what drives this line of thought?

I saw Archie celebrating with the team going out of Welsh-Ryan, hugging Rob, and getting in with the players...

I've seen numerous interviews with the players, and I've never had the feeling there was an issue...I remember an interview with Jerome right before his suspension when he was asked why his confidence had risen, and he said because Archie (and yes, he did say Archie, and not coach) had confidence in him. Lander says basically the same thing in his interview before the Northwestern game...That Archie had told him what he needed to work on to get more floor time, and how he'd done that and been rewarded...

Lastly, the interview with CJ Gunn and his father were very telling, at least to me, on how Archie interacts with the kids. Mr Gunn sounded like a guy who has been around and knows real from phony.

"Once I had heard his reasons, I got comfortable with it because I believe in coach Archie. That’s what it comes down to. I believe that he and his staff are in a position … it’s almost like a passing of the baton. I believe that when CJ is passed off to college, that they are in a position to help continue raising him as a young man. And I believe that. I firmly believe that. I think IU is in a good position with their current staff to create an environment where they can help him with his maturity and continue his growth. He’s a young man, but when he gets down there he’ll be 18 or 19 years old. He still will have some development, but I firmly believe they have that down pat with their staff."

CJ said Archie checked on him all the time, and a lot of conversations weren't about basketball...

"I think it was mainly coach Miller’s consistency with checking up on me every day. Whether it was basketball related or not, he made me feel like a part of the family already. He was the head coach doing that. No other head coach was recruiting me like that."

Just wondered why you felt the way you do about it...

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6 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I'm curious as to what drives this line of thought?

I saw Archie celebrating with the team going out of Welsh-Ryan, hugging Rob, and getting in with the players...

I've seen numerous interviews with the players, and I've never had the feeling there was an issue...I remember an interview with Jerome right before his suspension when he was asked why his confidence had risen, and he said because Archie (and yes, he did say Archie, and not coach) had confidence in him. Lander says basically the same thing in his interview before the Northwestern game...That Archie had told him what he needed to work on to get more floor time, and how he'd done that and been rewarded...

Lastly, the interview with CJ Gunn and his father were very telling, at least to me, on how Archie interacts with the kids. Mr Gunn sounded like a guy who has been around and knows real from phony.

"Once I had heard his reasons, I got comfortable with it because I believe in coach Archie. That’s what it comes down to. I believe that he and his staff are in a position … it’s almost like a passing of the baton. I believe that when CJ is passed off to college, that they are in a position to help continue raising him as a young man. And I believe that. I firmly believe that. I think IU is in a good position with their current staff to create an environment where they can help him with his maturity and continue his growth. He’s a young man, but when he gets down there he’ll be 18 or 19 years old. He still will have some development, but I firmly believe they have that down pat with their staff."

CJ said Archie checked on him all the time, and a lot of conversations weren't about basketball...

"I think it was mainly coach Miller’s consistency with checking up on me every day. Whether it was basketball related or not, he made me feel like a part of the family already. He was the head coach doing that. No other head coach was recruiting me like that."

Just wondered why you felt the way you do about it...

I don’t get that sense either. 

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Just now, IUFLA said:

I'm curious as to what drives this line of thought?

I saw Archie celebrating with the team going out of Welsh-Ryan, hugging Rob, and getting in with the players...

I've seen numerous interviews with the players, and I've never had the feeling there was an issue...I remember an interview with Jerome right before his suspension when he was asked why his confidence had risen, and he said because Archie (and yes, he did say Archie, and not coach) had confidence in him. Lander says basically the same thing in his interview before the Northwestern game...That Archie had told him what he needed to work on to get more floor time, and how he'd done that and been rewarded...

Lastly, the interview with CJ Gunn and his father were very telling, at least to me, on how Archie interacts with the kids. Mr Gunn sounded like a guy who has been around and knows real from phony.

"Once I had heard his reasons, I got comfortable with it because I believe in coach Archie. That’s what it comes down to. I believe that he and his staff are in a position … it’s almost like a passing of the baton. I believe that when CJ is passed off to college, that they are in a position to help continue raising him as a young man. And I believe that. I firmly believe that. I think IU is in a good position with their current staff to create an environment where they can help him with his maturity and continue his growth. He’s a young man, but when he gets down there he’ll be 18 or 19 years old. He still will have some development, but I firmly believe they have that down pat with their staff."

CJ said Archie checked on him all the time, and a lot of conversations weren't about basketball...

"I think it was mainly coach Miller’s consistency with checking up on me every day. Whether it was basketball related or not, he made me feel like a part of the family already. He was the head coach doing that. No other head coach was recruiting me like that."

Just wondered why you felt the way you do about it...

You definitely bring up good counter-examples to my thinking...and maybe in the end I am over thinking all of it...Here is why I have thought there was a lack of relationship between staff (as a whole and Archie in particular) and the players:

My impression starts with the senior night speeches where I have perceived a distance between the players and the coaching staff....very little emotion exchanged and very little in the way of effusive praise or thanks.

Second, there have been a couple of moments where I felt the player was taking a veiled shot at the staff and maybe even Archie specifically. There was a Hoosier Hysterics interview with McRoberts where he basically said he wasn't sure what Archie's goal was on offense and that he couldn't tell us what roles each member of the staff had because he couldn't tell. There were a few interviews with Juwan Morgan where he was underwhelmed with the way that he was used in the offense, and a few moments where Devonte and Deron demonstrated that they were less than thrilled with their time under Archie...a couple of subtle parting shots from transfers like Jake Forrester...

But I think that a lot of it comes from observing the way they interact on the sideline...recently against Illinois there were as many as three players who responded to Archie with frustration (Leal, Galloway, Phinisee) and possibly annoyance at whatever point he was getting across...

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1 minute ago, mchenry34 said:

You definitely bring up good counter-examples to my thinking...and maybe in the end I am over thinking all of it...Here is why I have thought there was a lack of relationship between staff (as a whole and Archie in particular) and the players:

My impression starts with the senior night speeches where I have perceived a distance between the players and the coaching staff....very little emotion exchanged and very little in the way of effusive praise or thanks.

Second, there have been a couple of moments where I felt the player was taking a veiled shot at the staff and maybe even Archie specifically. There was a Hoosier Hysterics interview with McRoberts where he basically said he wasn't sure what Archie's goal was on offense and that he couldn't tell us what roles each member of the staff had because he couldn't tell. There were a few interviews with Juwan Morgan where he was underwhelmed with the way that he was used in the offense, and a few moments where Devonte and Deron demonstrated that they were less than thrilled with their time under Archie...a couple of subtle parting shots from transfers like Jake Forrester...

But I think that a lot of it comes from observing the way they interact on the sideline...recently against Illinois there were as many as three players who responded to Archie with frustration (Leal, Galloway, Phinisee) and possibly annoyance at whatever point he was getting across...

Thanks...I will counter with the fact that those seniors and other players you mentioned signed up for a different coach. I do think there were some chemistry issues his first few years, especially with all of the pomp and circumstance around Romeo...I do appreciate Devonte and Justin Smith, but I don't think they tried to fit in themselves or provide a welcoming atmosphere to younger players. I see the current team is a little different. Small things, but the freshmen are treated as teammates and not interlopers...

As for the discussion on the sidelines, Lord knows how many times I've seen Izzo and one of his kids going around during a game...This year alone he and Aaron Henry have gone at least 15 rounds... :) So it's not something I get too concerned about. Archie is a fiery guy and I think he appreciates that trait in a player...at least to some degree...

 

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3 hours ago, Hippopotamo said:

Too many people incorrectly associate effort with making shots. I did not see a moment in the Northwestern game where there wasn’t effort. Sometimes it’s misguided, and sometimes shots don’t fall. But the team is always trying. 

I don’t think the team is always trying/playing hard and it’s not because I associate it with missed shots. It’s TJD getting beat down court because he was jogging, guys not going after 50/50 balls, lackadaisical cuts past set screens on the offensive side, etc etc. Some of the players have even said they did not know why the team came out flat and without intensity in interviews after games.

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I think some of you are looking into things a little to much. I don’t think the players have a problem with Archie at all. I actually think they get along with him really well. There have been times I’ve actually wished Archie would be a little harder on them. My biggest concern with Archie is he seems to be too stubborn at times and sticks with things/players/Rotations to long before adjusting and making a change. 

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If I’m Archie I know we can’t afford to get off to a slow start against OSU. They are too good to dig yourself a hole early on. I’d stick Rob back on bench to start the game and roll out someone else in hopes of sparking us to a good start. That may actually spark Rob as well. He may feel less pressure coming off the bench. Continuing to start him while he puts up zeros across the state sheet is not going to work IMO. 
this is a huge huge opportunity for IU and I like how we match up with them. 

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