Zuckerkorn Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Just now, IUFLA said: I just get tired of IU fans deferring to a program that, historically, couldn't carry our lunch... They're a solid program, but they'll never be IU...Not even close... They're traditionally solid and IMO, at least a couple of pegs shy of being historic. Whether they ever break through and become FF material, only time will tell. And that is the shameful part IMO - we are and have been for some time now a step or two behind them. It gives me no pleasure to say that, but objectively it's what I believe. Their recruiting momentum is higher than ours. Their coach has proven more at this level in terms of results, and ours has had a disappointing record of player improvement in his 3+ seasons. I wish it weren't true, but again I believe it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: I would rather be like UVA and Villanova No you wouldn't. You want to be North Carolina, Kansas, and Kentucky when it comes to results and longevity. Virginia was a mediocre program who caught a good coach. Villanova is the same. The reason I do not include Duke is I think they are going to go through a crisis when K leaves. Throw out all the things you think that the 3 programs I mentioned do or do not do in order to win, at the end of the day they are programs that have almost always been good to great. Year over year. Coach to coach. That is what I want as a fan. Sustained excellence. Not just a brand built around a coach. Indiana could have done that from McCracken to Knight but they replaced Knight with Mike Davis, which was a bleeping joke. That was the start of all of this nonsense, they did not take the program seriously and places like Kansas, UNC, and Kentucky do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: No you wouldn't. You want to be North Carolina, Kansas, and Kentucky when it comes to results and longevity. Virginia was a mediocre program who caught a good coach. Villanova is the same. The reason I do not include Duke is I think they are going to go through a crisis when K leaves. Throw out all the things you think that the 3 programs I mentioned do or do not do in order to win, at the end of the day they are programs that have almost always been good to great. Year over year. Coach to coach. That is what I want as a fan. Sustained excellence. Not just a brand built around a coach. Indiana could have done that from McCracken to Knight but they replaced Knight with Mike Davis, which was a bleeping joke. That was the start of all of this nonsense, they did not take the program seriously and places like Kansas, UNC, and Kentucky do. Nope never want to be like KU, UNC, Duke or UK because all of them have not done things by the rules. I like how UVA and Villanova has built their programs with mainly 3 and 4 year players who stay and develop as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: No you wouldn't. You want to be North Carolina, Kansas, and Kentucky when it comes to results and longevity. Virginia was a mediocre program who caught a good coach. Villanova is the same. The reason I do not include Duke is I think they are going to go through a crisis when K leaves. Throw out all the things you think that the 3 programs I mentioned do or do not do in order to win, at the end of the day they are programs that have almost always been good to great. Year over year. Coach to coach. That is what I want as a fan. Sustained excellence. Not just a brand built around a coach. Indiana could have done that from McCracken to Knight but they replaced Knight with Mike Davis, which was a bleeping joke. That was the start of all of this nonsense, they did not take the program seriously and places like Kansas, UNC, and Kentucky do. Depends on how long Wright and Bennett stay at their respective schools, and who succeeds them ... Duke wasn't a "Blue Blood" until the 1990s...They were good in the 60s, had a NC game appearance in 1978, and in the 80s had some Final 4 teams, but if before they won their first 2 NCs you would have called them a "Blue Blood" you'd have gotten laughed out of the room. I do agree that in hindsight, Davis taking over for RMK was a bad decision...And probably the decision that put us where we are...Along with the Samson hiring over Beilein if all of the rumors are true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 36 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Difference was that Painter came in a year early as the coach in waiting and all he did was go out and recruit. Also Painter runs the same things that Keady did so it was a seamless transition. I mean, you can dissect it all you want - the results are light years ahead of where we are, and he still had to take over that program and keep it going. His first year was a complete disaster, and they recovered and were in the S16 in year 4, and won the conference in year 5. Years 3-6, they finished either 1 or 2 in the conference. You can downplay it all you want, but I think we'd be pretty happy with the results Painter has achieved if he were at IU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: I mean, you can dissect it all you want - the results are light years ahead of where we are, and he still had to take over that program and keep it going. His first year was a complete disaster, and they recovered and were in the S16 in year 4, and won the conference in year 5. Years 3-6, they finished either 1 or 2 in the conference. You can downplay it all you want, but I think we'd be pretty happy with the results Painter has achieved if he were at IU. That last sentence interests me. I’ve heard plenty of people say Painter wouldn’t be good enough for IU and plenty that think he would. Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Stlboiler23 said: That last sentence interests me. I’ve heard plenty of people say Painter wouldn’t be good enough for IU and plenty that think he would. Who knows? I think it depends on the generation. Those of us that are older, that remember the "salad years" and titles, might not accept those results, especially the lack of a FF, and that middle section when you had some down years and Painter almost left might have been the end of his career at IU. However, the younger generation of IU fans probably have their bar set a little lower. The best team they've seen died in the S16 against Syracuse, so Painter's results might be acceptable to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 29 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said: Their recruiting momentum is higher than ours. In only one year since Archie got to IU has Purdue had a better recruiting class according to the services...2021...And as I said, I'm ok with Stewart and Duncomb as opposed to Kaufman and Furst...We'll probably have better short term yield, but long term, who knows... Sometimes a kid comes in an exceeds those rankings...Trevion Williams (154 Nationally) has...we've done it too with OG and Juwan Howard...And Purdue wouldn't be in the top half of the B1G without Trevion Williams... You guys so easily forget names like Langford, Jackson-Davis, and Lander... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 43 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: Even if he stays, we have the better team next year IMO. That's why they play the games...Saying it is nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: In only one year since Archie got to IU has Purdue had a better recruiting class according to the services...2021...And as I said, I'm ok with Stewart and Duncomb as opposed to Kaufman and Furst...We'll probably have better short term yield, but long term, who knows... Sometimes a kid comes in an exceeds those rankings...Trevion Williams (154 Nationally) has...we've done it too with OG and Juwan Howard...And Purdue wouldn't be in the top half of the B1G without Trevion Williams... You guys so easily forget names like Langford, Jackson-Davis, and Lander... Isn’t that proof that Painter does more with lesser at least in terms of recruiting rankings? Guys like Stefanovich and Edey are great examples of that. Throw in landing top 50 guys and the potential for better seasons goes up even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: Isn’t that proof that Painter does more with lesser at least in terms of recruiting rankings? Guys like Stefanovich and Edey are great examples of that. Throw in landing top 50 guys and the potential for better seasons goes up even more. Stefanovich isn't exactly a superstar, and the jury is still out on Edey... You found gold with Trevion...Without him, you guys would be hurting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Stefanovich isn't exactly a superstar, and the jury is still out on Edey... You found gold with Trevion...Without him, you guys would be hurting... He isn’t a superstar but every B1G team could benefit from having him. Similar situation to Ryan Cline. Edey is averaging 8 and 4 for a guy that’s only played basketball for like 3 years. I’d say that’s pretty impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUDan93 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 PU doesn't have the banners we do, but we aren't happy about how the program has been performing for 20 years. Why can't we just be happy we have these banners? Or, does 30+ years of no championships make us realize that we want to enjoy having a team that has a chance to so. Let's face it, PU could have easily won a few years back if not for some luck by UVA. They now have players that could get them in position for more tourney success. Yes those banners matter, but I think we should stop using long ago success as our "proof" that we are still better than they are. I am not envious of Purdue basketball, more just look forward to the time when we are in a better position to beat them. Even under Knight we didn't own them head-to-head. I do hope that our 20+ year struggles have lead to a little humility in our fan base. Purdue has long played good basketball, and I think it is good if we acknowledge that. Let's face it, most of us have claimed to be a blue blood with all sorts of built in advantages in terms of fan support, facilities, recruiting area, brand name, etc. These were things that we would likely say PU has lacked....yet they seem to held their own(and then some) against use for decades. The only real difference is three years of tourney success in 76, 81, and 87. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 44 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: That last sentence interests me. I’ve heard plenty of people say Painter wouldn’t be good enough for IU and plenty that think he would. Who knows? If Matt Painter coached IU...he’d have better results then Matt Painter at Purdue. People think less of him because it’s Purdue and not IU or Notre Dame...two schools with more basketball history. Give him the recruiting platform, facilities, and brand recognition of IU or even Notre Dame and I think he would have a regular S16 and better team year in and year out. I think Matt is a great coach...not good great. At a premier power conference school he may even have played in a NC by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 52 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Depends on how long Wright and Bennett stay at their respective schools, and who succeeds them ... Duke wasn't a "Blue Blood" until the 1990s...They were good in the 60s, had a NC game appearance in 1978, and in the 80s had some Final 4 teams, but if before they won their first 2 NCs you would have called them a "Blue Blood" you'd have gotten laughed out of the room. I do agree that in hindsight, Davis taking over for RMK was a bad decision...And probably the decision that put us where we are...Along with the Samson hiring over Beilein if all of the rumors are true... Actually, I wouldn't consider Duke a "Blue Blood" at all. I would categorize them as "Elite" in the here and now. The program stands behinds one coach's accomplishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 minute ago, dgambill said: If Matt Painter coached IU...he’d have better results then Matt Painter at Purdue. People think less of him because it’s Purdue and not IU or Notre Dame...two schools with more basketball history. Give him the recruiting platform, facilities, and brand recognition of IU or even Notre Dame and I think he would have a regular S16 and better team year in and year out. I think Matt is a great coach...not good great. At a premier power conference school he may even have played in a NC by now. Ummm, I think Purdue has been to more FF's than Notre Dame. Let that soak in for awhile. Purdue 2-ND 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Well, I think I'm gonna tip out here... I have never seen an IU basketball site so ready to laud friggin Purdue while so ready to trash their own program, coach and players... They're Purdue...second rate yesterday, second rate today, and second rate tomorrow... You boys have fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 minute ago, rico said: Actually, I wouldn't consider Duke a "Blue Blood" at all. I would categorize them as "Elite" in the here and now. The program stands behinds one coach's accomplishments. I just think of blue blood as basketball royalty....Duke may have one coaches success but UCLA was a blue blood after one coach. I still consider them basketball royalty. Duke, Kansas, UNC, UCLA, Uk, Indiana....and we aren’t even in the top 10 in wins all time....we are quickly becoming more irrelevant in college basketball. Doesn’t matter...Nebraska is football blue blood but they are irrelevant...so does it really matter?? Not just one year...but year in and out...that is us as well. We are only relevant in history books....on the court we are a JAG....just another guy. I’m like you...I don’t look down on Purdue...it’s a good program and right now we just need to get back to their level first before we can achieve the goal of getting back to the mountain top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, rico said: Ummm, I think Purdue has been to more FF's than Notre Dame. Let that soak in for awhile. Purdue 2-ND 1. Well they have more wins all time then either of us and were ahead of UCLA before a couple bad years. I think of Notre Dame just a tad higher than Purdue but mostly because the school itself holds more of a national public perception than Purdue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, dgambill said: Well they have more wins all time then either of us and we’re ahead of UCLA before a couple bad years. I think of Notre Dame just a tad higher than Purdue but mostly because the school itself holds more of a national public perception than Purdue. Well, Notre Dame has a national following...you didn't get the memo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, rico said: Well, Notre Dame has a national following...you didn't get the memo? Not sure if their fans even know they have a b-ball team tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Just now, Stlboiler23 said: Not sure if their fans even know they have a b-ball team tbh. Well the locals around me do. LOL Of course I am 45 minutes away from campus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatShot Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Our program is in a pretty sad spot if we're envying a 14-8 Purdue team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 minute ago, TheWatShot said: Our program is in a pretty sad spot if we're envying a 14-8 Purdue team. Did that just occur to you? Geez. We are in a sad spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsidehoosier Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Stlboiler23 said: He isn’t a superstar but every B1G team could benefit from having him. Similar situation to Ryan Cline. Edey is averaging 8 and 4 for a guy that’s only played basketball for like 3 years. I’d say that’s pretty impressive. Any guy that tall should be avg that IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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