Zuckerkorn Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, rico said: Did that just occur to you? Geez. We are in a sad spot. Yes, somehow acknowledging this fact is, apparently, some form of surrender or betrayal to our team. If we had a coach that had the same results as PU has had in the same number of seasons, I don't think we'd be particularly happy - just due to our expectations, be they realistic or not. Even though they aren't having a particularly outstanding season this year, I'd guess we'd be happier to be where they are as a general state of the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I’m going to bow out...it appears that many IU fans can’t accept the fact that we’ve been hot garbage for the majority of the past 30 years....30 freaking years...and to go back to our last championship probably half the board might not have been alive. Just because myself and several older members remember the glory years let’s not jump down the younger folks throat who haven’t lived the same history we have. Also someone to recognize that Purdue has been better than us not just the Archie tenure but the past 15 years let’s not act like they are some kind of traitors. Banners or not Purdue is the program of choice at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison22 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I'm IU all the way. But give credit where its due: Purdue leads the all-time series 123-89. Not even close. Purdue has 24 Big 10 conference regular season titles to Indiana's 22. Close, but they still lead. Since 1949, IU leads the series by one, 66 wins vs 65 wins, with a mere 1.3 points as the average margin of victory. Despite our national championships, to say we've dominated them over the years and we're just in a temporary lull isn't accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 hours ago, AxnJxn said: I think it depends on the generation. Those of us that are older, that remember the "salad years" and titles, might not accept those results, especially the lack of a FF, and that middle section when you had some down years and Painter almost left might have been the end of his career at IU. However, the younger generation of IU fans probably have their bar set a little lower. The best team they've seen died in the S16 against Syracuse, so Painter's results might be acceptable to them. I actually think it’s the opposite. The old guard that experienced the “salad years” is far more concerned with “doing things the right way” than winning. I also think that it’s primarily members of the old guard who think Archie’s done a fine job so far despite the horrible results in the win/loss column. In my experience, it’s primarily the members of the younger generation who’ve never actually experienced an elite IU program (of which I’m a part) who want IU to do whatever it can to climb back into that category, including hiring an elite coach and recruiting like an elite program. But I think that’s currently a minority of the fanbase, and it certainly isn’t the approach the IU administration is going to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: I actually think it’s the opposite. The old guard that experienced the “salad years” is far more concerned with “doing things the right way” than winning. I also think that it’s primarily members of the old guard who think Archie’s done a fine job so far despite the horrible results in the win/loss column. In my experience, it’s primarily the members of the younger generation who’ve never actually experienced an elite IU program (of which I’m a part) who want IU to do whatever it can to climb back into that category, including hiring an elite coach and recruiting like an elite program. But I think that’s currently a minority of the fanbase, and it certainly isn’t the approach the IU administration is going to take. I am one of the old guard you are talking about but don't think Archie has done a good job. I also believe that there are no elite sure fire coaches out there to hire. These coaches are not available and won't leave their established jobs they already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 hours ago, IUFLA said: Well, I think I'm gonna tip out here... I have never seen an IU basketball site so ready to laud friggin Purdue while so ready to trash their own program, coach and players... They're Purdue...second rate yesterday, second rate today, and second rate tomorrow... You boys have fun... Does get scary sometimes. So many laud but when those of us point some very real facts about Painter's tenure....our resident expert will chime in on why that shouldn't matter and what's worse 3-4 of the IU fans/Painter fan club members support him. Strange times to see for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: I actually think it’s the opposite. The old guard that experienced the “salad years” is far more concerned with “doing things the right way” than winning. I also think that it’s primarily members of the old guard who think Archie’s done a fine job so far despite the horrible results in the win/loss column. In my experience, it’s primarily the members of the younger generation who’ve never actually experienced an elite IU program (of which I’m a part) who want IU to do whatever it can to climb back into that category, including hiring an elite coach and recruiting like an elite program. But I think that’s currently a minority of the fanbase, and it certainly isn’t the approach the IU administration is going to take. That's a good point. One of the points of pride with RMK was not only that he was winning, but he was running a clean program and graduating players. It allowed us to look down at Kentucky, specifically, because their success was tainted because of their shady means. These days, it's kind of difficult to even tell what doing things "the right way" even means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 35 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: I actually think it’s the opposite. The old guard that experienced the “salad years” is far more concerned with “doing things the right way” than winning. I also think that it’s primarily members of the old guard who think Archie’s done a fine job so far despite the horrible results in the win/loss column. In my experience, it’s primarily the members of the younger generation who’ve never actually experienced an elite IU program (of which I’m a part) who want IU to do whatever it can to climb back into that category, including hiring an elite coach and recruiting like an elite program. But I think that’s currently a minority of the fanbase, and it certainly isn’t the approach the IU administration is going to take. I don't know. I was born in '67 and saw all the RMK years. Take that fwiw. Several good points have been made during this discussion. I will leave it at that as I only judge my own fandom. But I am a tad different. Quite simply Purdue was just as good as us during Knight's tenure. The only thing that was different was the FF(with titles) appearances. Since Knight's departure the pendulum has been in favor of the Boilers. Now, just with life, we can choose to live in the past or live in the here and now eyeing the future. With all that being said, it does no good to bury our heads in the sand and pretend it is 1981 again. Things will get better. And all this doom and gloom will eventually go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJack Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 We all know Purdue has had greater success in the wins/losses, but IMO you can't underestimate the losses to the NBA draft has had on IU hoops the last 7-8 years. Filling the gaps has been a problem to say the least. However, kids going pro and making generational wealth for their families is a wonderful thing. IU has done that at significant higher rate than Purdue. Us fans are left to suffer the effects, but oh well. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how to build a successful and sustainable college basketball program in this era. The college game is changing rapidly. I can't imagine what it will look like in 15-20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 45 minutes ago, rico said: I don't know. I was born in '67 and saw all the RMK years. Take that fwiw. Several good points have been made during this discussion. I will leave it at that as I only judge my own fandom. But I am a tad different. Quite simply Purdue was just as good as us during Knight's tenure. The only thing that was different was the FF(with titles) appearances. Since Knight's departure the pendulum has been in favor of the Boilers. Now, just with life, we can choose to live in the past or live in the here and now eyeing the future. With all that being said, it does no good to bury our heads in the sand and pretend it is 1981 again. Things will get better. And all this doom and gloom will eventually go away. Very well said. We all love to live in our glory years...heck I’d love to have my college six pack and perfect hair and all that jazz...sure I can tell my wife about all those days but fact is she met me when I was 31...and heck while I’d just love to go back to those days she never seen me in my prime...are those days relevant to her or us today...nope...she just says I need to eat better and take my medicine so I can be there to see our grandchildren hopefully some day. What IU did in winning the 5 championships will never be taken away..and some of that shaped me as a fan...but none of it matters when I watch the game tonight. Quite frankly I wish we would take those stars off our shorts because this team and this program under Archie hasn’t shown me anything to suggest they deserve to be recognized for those teams accomplishments. We can walk around all proud to be IU fans Looking down on Purdue and others if we want but quite frankly I’ve spent just about more years of my life ashamed to admit of being an IU fan then proud. Life has moved on...and so has college basketball without us...I want to be part of that discussion again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I see people say move on from the past and move which I agree. So if we move on so why is the expectations to win championships since we are moving on. The reason for the high expectations is the past and those championships so if you have those high expectations then you can't forget the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Just now, JJack said: We all know Purdue has had greater success in the wins/losses, but IMO you can't underestimate the lost to the NBA draft has had on IU hoops the last 7-8 years. Filling the gaps has been a problem to say the least. However, kids going pro and making generational wealth for their families is a wonderful thing. IU has done that at significant higher rate than Purdue. Us fans are left to suffer the effects, but oh well. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how to build a successful and sustainable college basketball program in this era. The college game is changing rapidly. I can't imagine what it will look like in 15-20 years. I think you build it around 8-9 really solid 80-120 ranked 4 year guys and have 2-3 top 50 talented 1-2 year guys with that elite talent. Main thing though...you need your upper class men to be really solid, consistent, leaders. Uber talented young guys are great but those junior and seniors are the glue that ties the program from star recruits to the next stars. We have missed on having those leaders and also having enough star talent....honestly we aren’t doing anything right in that retrospect. I hope this current freshman class will be that core glue group...but that still leaves Archie to bring in a couple of studs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: I see people say move on from the past and move which I agree. So if we move on so why is the expectations to win championships since we are moving on. The reason for the high expectations is the past and those championships so if you have those high expectations then you can't forget the past. Myself....I just want this program to get to the point we are a second weekend team pretty consistently (a top 25 team year in and out). Get to that point then we can set our eyes on championships. Got to learn to walk again before we can run. Like recovering from a bad car wreck. We may never get back if we don’t learn to take that first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, dgambill said: Very well said. We all love to live in our glory years...heck I’d love to have my college six pack and perfect hair and all that jazz...sure I can tell my wife about all those days but fact is she met me when I was 31...and heck while I’d just love to go back to those days she never seen me in my prime...are those days relevant to her or us today...nope...she just says I need to eat better and take my medicine so I can be there to see our grandchildren hopefully some day. What IU did in winning the 5 championships will never be taken away..and some of that shaped me as a fan...but none of it matters when I watch the game tonight. Quite frankly I wish we would take those stars off our shorts because this team and this program under Archie hasn’t shown me anything to suggest they deserve to be recognized for those teams accomplishments. We can walk around all proud to be IU fans Looking down on Purdue and others if we want but quite frankly I’ve spent just about more years of my life ashamed to admit of being an IU fan then proud. Life has moved on...and so has college basketball without us...I want to be part of that discussion again! I smile when I look back at the past concerning what I have witnessed as an IU fan at my age. I am not ashamed of the way it is now. In my heart I know it is just a bump in life's road and we will get back on course. I will take what comes to the program in whatever form. Just thankful I am alive to enjoy the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 For those that can't find anything positive to say about Purdue. Which of these scenarios would you choose? I'm asking in all seriousness. Scenario #1: IU and Purdue are both 19-1 in conference. Scenario #2: IU is 12-8 in conference. Purdue is 0-20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, 5fouls said: For those that can't find anything positive to say about Purdue. Which of these scenarios would you choose? I'm asking in all seriousness. Scenario #1: IU and Purdue are both 19-1 in conference. Scenario #2: IU is 12-8 in conference. Purdue is 0-20. Scenario 1 is impossible since we play each other twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, 5fouls said: For those that can't find anything positive to say about Purdue. Which of these scenarios would you choose? I'm asking in all seriousness. Scenario #1: IU and Purdue are both 19-1 in conference. Scenario #2: IU is 12-8 in conference. Purdue is 0-20. Don't make them think too hard...this place will explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Madison22 said: I'm IU all the way. But give credit where its due: Purdue leads the all-time series 123-89. Not even close. Purdue has 24 Big 10 conference regular season titles to Indiana's 22. Close, but they still lead. Since 1949, IU leads the series by one, 66 wins vs 65 wins, with a mere 1.3 points as the average margin of victory. Despite our national championships, to say we've dominated them over the years and we're just in a temporary lull isn't accurate. I know a lot of those losses came in the premodern basketball era but even Keady I think had a winning record against Knight. So even during our prime we weren’t beating them down. Don’t get me wrong I think our national championships are what set us apart in the national perception but there are other methods of measurement of success then just simply ncaa tournament success. In the end our total story is much more impressive but I think it’s ok to admit the last few chapters in our book have been pretty lackluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, 5fouls said: For those that can't find anything positive to say about Purdue. Which of these scenarios would you choose? I'm asking in all seriousness. Scenario #1: IU and Purdue are both 19-1 in conference. Scenario #2: IU is 12-8 in conference. Purdue is 0-20. Did we win the head to head lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 My son has been watching a lot of the 2012-2103 season this week. A couple of links to make IU fans feel better. Purdue vs. Indiana - Box Score - February 16, 2013 - ESPN Indiana vs. Purdue - Box Score - January 30, 2013 - ESPN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: Scenario 1 is impossible since we play each other twice You may have been making a funny. But, I'll lean towards you being mathematically challenged, My scenario assumed we split our season series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, dgambill said: Did we win the head to head lol! It assumes we split the season series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, 5fouls said: My son has been watching a lot of the 2012-2103 season this week. A couple of links to make IU fans feel better. Purdue vs. Indiana - Box Score - February 16, 2013 - ESPN Indiana vs. Purdue - Box Score - January 30, 2013 - ESPN Or just watch 13 games during Davis vs Painter/Keady era where MD went like 10-3. Of course I know those numbers and the context of numbers as it relates to coaching acumen/program development get lost a tad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 22 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: Scenario 1 is impossible since we play each other twice Well couldn't we split the games and win the rest of the games on our schedule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: Or just watch 13 games during Davis vs Painter/Keady era where MD went like 10-3. Of course I know those numbers and the context of numbers as it relates to coaching acumen/program development get lost a tad. I chose those games because that IU team was a joy to watch (save for the Syracuse game). I watched the first Michigan game with him the other night and IU literally had 20 points 4 minutes into the game. At the time, Michigan was #1 in the country and we were #3. After missing 3 free throw early in the contest, made something like 20 straight the remainder of the game. That was the game known for Vic's missed dunk. Vic actually did not have that good of a game. But, Zeller was an absolute monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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