dgambill Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 29 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: Good point, and maybe the TOs aren't really a problem, if it's leading to more open shots that we're knocking down, like we did last night from 3. There are peeps on here that are much smarter than me that can answer whether that's the situation or not. I still have a lot of PTSD from watching the FCTC's teams throw the ball all over the arena. Turnovers are always a problem...but made much much worse when they are live ball turnovers...and catastrophic possibly when they lead directly to points. We had both those and honestly that is what kept us from extending our lead earlier. Once we cleaned it up the last 10 mins we played good basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 10 minutes ago, BGleas said: I guess I just have a problem with the negativity when it was a good win, and it was a good win. We haven't had a ton to be really positive about, so when we get it, it rubs me the wrong way to see people dump on it. Everyone is certainly welcome to their own opinions and to voice their viewpoints as they see them. But there is a difference between... "Good W, nice to beat a tournament team by double digits. The turnovers and offensive rebounds are a huge problem that need to be figured out, really frustrating. But, feels good to see our guys come through the last 8 minutes and really step on Minny's throats!"... as opposed to "I can't believe any of you are happy about that W. We beat a terrible Minny team. Why is anyone happy about that. At least Archie can out-coach one coach." The first one isn't saying there aren't problems, and is addressing the issues, while still recognizing it was a performance to feel good about. The second one is just miserable. Yah, completely fair, and I agree with you for the most part. I'd like to see a little more consistency across the board, but this is still a fairly young team, and a W like last night could go a long way in building confidence in our outside shooting and ability to close out games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 minute ago, AxnJxn said: Yah, completely fair, and I agree with you for the most part. I'd like to see a little more consistency across the board, but this is still a fairly young team, and a W like last night could go a long way in building confidence in our outside shooting and ability to close out games. Hopefully, or it could go the other way and we no-show against MSU. Who knows with this team? So, I'm going to take my good and enjoy it when I can get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 hour ago, BGleas said: You know what, you're right. We suck, Archie sucks. I can't believe we only shot 58% and only scored 82 points against them. If I was Archie I'd be pulling some scholarships!! 5-for-6 from the field for 16 points for Al Durham? Doesn't Al know that if he had gone 6-for-6 we would have won by 12 instead of 10? He needs to be benched! Is that better for you? I mean seriously, it's ok to not be miserable about this all the time. I don’t blame people for being cautiously optimistic. That is where I sit...I see we can beat good teams...when we play well we are a tough out...but I also recognize it’s going to take sustained excellence or sustained good play to get us anywhere special. I was about to curse this team out last night with the turnovers and defensive effort (specifically our guards not stopping penetration) but the last 10 mins gave me great optimism that we can be a scary team to face come March if we put it all together. I’m feeling more confident in Archies ability to run sets and his coaching...still scratch my head at some substations and how long the leash is for our upperclassman back court but I like a lot of what he is going...he just needs to get some better talent or coach up his talent a little more...oh and let reigns off a little and let these kids breathe a little and feel comfortable taking a few more 3s. Overall good things though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 We’ve basically played two games this year where we just mailed it in and didn’t show up. Two...Texas and OSU. Purdue was ugly but it was mostly execution we lacked. That’s pretty good because we’ve seen even top 10 teams have more blow outs then that. We’ve really been in every game this year...despite some poor games and lost some games we played really well...but not many teams can say they’ve been as close as us in every single finish this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 Just now, dgambill said: I don’t blame people for being cautiously optimistic. That is where I sit...I see we can beat good teams...when we play well we are a tough out...but I also recognize it’s going to take sustained excellence or sustained good play to get us anywhere special. I was about to curse this team out last night with the turnovers and defensive effort (specifically our guards not stopping penetration) but the last 10 mins gave me great optimism that we can be a scary team to face come March if we put it all together. I’m feeling more confident in Archies ability to run sets and his coaching...still scratch my head at some substations and how long the leash is for our upperclassman back court but I like a lot of what he is going...he just needs to get some better talent or coach up his talent a little more...oh and let reigns off a little and let these kids breathe a little and feel comfortable taking a few more 3s. Overall good things though. I'm not talking about cautiously optimistic. I'm cautiously optimistic too. I don't have a ton of trust in this team or program right now. I'm frustrated too that we haven't turned the corner yet. I'm talking about the people that literally don't think last night was a good win and don't think we should feel good about it. It was a good win. Minnesota is a tournament team that has at times been a top 25 team in the toughest conference in the country and we just beat them by 10 points. Was it perfect? Absolutely not. Does IU have plenty of issues to work out still? Absolutely. But it was a good win. I have no problem discussing and dissecting the turnover problems and the defensive rebounding problems, etc., etc., we were sloppy a lot of the game. But that is a win we should ALL feel pretty good about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, dgambill said: I don’t blame people for being cautiously optimistic. That is where I sit...I see we can beat good teams...when we play well we are a tough out...but I also recognize it’s going to take sustained excellence or sustained good play to get us anywhere special. I was about to curse this team out last night with the turnovers and defensive effort (specifically our guards not stopping penetration) but the last 10 mins gave me great optimism that we can be a scary team to face come March if we put it all together. I’m feeling more confident in Archies ability to run sets and his coaching...still scratch my head at some substations and how long the leash is for our upperclassman back court but I like a lot of what he is going...he just needs to get some better talent or coach up his talent a little more...oh and let reigns off a little and let these kids breathe a little and feel comfortable taking a few more 3s. Overall good things though. Archie has been fantastic drawing up sets. CoachSS had a tweet earlier in the week about it that he has since deleted (not sure why he deletes his content?!?!) but the numbers on ATO plays was elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, BGleas said: I'm not talking about cautiously optimistic. I'm cautiously optimistic too. I don't have a ton of trust in this team or program right now. I'm frustrated too that we haven't turned the corner yet. I'm talking about the people that literally don't think last night was a good win and don't think we should feel good about it. It was a good win. Minnesota is a tournament team that has at times been a top 25 team in the toughest conference in the country and we just beat them by 10 points. Was it perfect? Absolutely not. Does IU have plenty of issues to work out still? Absolutely. But it was a good win. I have no problem discussing and dissecting the turnover problems and the defensive rebounding problems, etc., etc., we were sloppy a lot of the game. But that is a win we should ALL feel pretty good about. Agreed...even hobbled with their personnel they are dangerous team. They hit a ton of tough shots so credit them that...and we didn’t back down. So it was a good win for sure! I also didn’t have heart failure the last 2 mins like most games so that’s also a plus as well. Felt good to win going away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 Not sure anyone has mentioned it but... We didn't start slow! And we got Trayce going right away... IMPROVEMENT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_iu_bb Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 51 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: You seem to be conflating being happy with the win and overall concern about the team. People can be happy with a 10 point win over a decent B1G team and still have a lot of concern about the team's play in that and other games. They're not the same thing nor are they mutually exclusive. I agree with you that there are concerns about this team and the win didn't really alleviate those. Yet I still find it a good win and I'm happy with it as I'm happy with any win. I just don't agree that those concerns should make someone unhappy about a double digit win in which IU was comfortably ahead in the last 5 minutes or so. Negativity about this game itself would be more understandable if it was a nail-biter heading in to the last minute that ended up not looking close due to FT but that wasn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 minute ago, BGleas said: Archie has been fantastic drawing up sets. CoachSS had a tweet earlier in the week about it that he has since deleted (not sure why he deletes his content?!?!) but the numbers on ATO plays was elite. I don’t know why we don’t set more screens for Trayce to free him up on the block. We run like a reverse action and set a back screen (usually a guard) just let him get deep position. It works almost every time...I know you can’t do it all the time but if they over commit or their guard stays behind it should lead to a free look from one of our guards. One of my favorite sets. Minus the Al end of half dribble fiasco (why don’t we always use Armaan in that position?) end of game and half plays have been much better...better spacing and better timing. Archie is growing just like our guys too. He is a young coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Not sure anyone has mentioned it but... We didn't start slow! And we got Trayce going right away... IMPROVEMENT... Yes I knew we had bad starts but they put up that graphic where he was like 0-17 in the past like 5 games in the first 4 minutes of games or something like that...yikes glad that got reversed because Minnesota started well too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDB Posted February 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 Not sure why anyone would be upset after a win.. Especially one in which we had one of our most complete performances of the season. IU averaged 1.21 points per possession, which is an outstanding rate... and they turned the ball over 17 times. With a faster pace in the game, and less turnovers, IU could have easily scored 90+ last night, with an even higher average points per possession. Oh, and, we shot 58% from the field and from three, while holding Minnesota to 40% from the field and 20% from three. All of this, and they win by double digits, AND it's against a team that owns some of the best wins in the country. Literally the only thing you could complain about was the turnovers.. Not sure why you wouldn't just enjoy this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 We’ve only lost one game outside of the top 26 teams in KenPom. Think about that. Maybe we aren’t as bad as we want to believe sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 Just now, dgambill said: I don’t know why we don’t set more screens for Trayce to free him up on the block. We run like a reverse action and set a back screen (usually a guard) just let him get deep position. It works almost every time...I know you can’t do it all the time but if they over commit or their guard stays behind it should lead to a free look from one of our guards. One of my favorite sets. Minus the Al end of half dribble fiasco (why don’t we always use Armaan in that position?) end of game and half plays have been much better...better spacing and better timing. Archie is growing just like our guys too. He is a young coach. I'd have to pay closer attention throughout the game to see how often we set those screens for TJD, but when we do it out of a timeout it almost always works. All season we've been getting great, great shots out of our timeouts. Agree on Al/Armaan. That was one thing I was scratching my head at during the game. Most of the second half Armaan basically just in the corner while Al/Rob ran the offense. It's weird, because IMO Armaan is much better with the ball in his hands, where Al is really, really good coming off screen for the spot up jumper or the curl to the basket. Remember late last season Al was playing really well and it was almost exclusively coming off baseline screens and either popping or curling, it wasn't initiating offense. Hopefully this will be a sign that it's going back to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, dgambill said: Yes I knew we had bad starts but they put up that graphic where he was like 0-17 in the past like 5 games in the first 4 minutes of games or something like that...yikes glad that got reversed because Minnesota started well too. The announcers said TJD was 0-for-13 from the field in something like the first 6 minutes of the last 5 games combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, dgambill said: I don’t know why we don’t set more screens for Trayce to free him up on the block. We run like a reverse action and set a back screen (usually a guard) just let him get deep position. It works almost every time...I know you can’t do it all the time but if they over commit or their guard stays behind it should lead to a free look from one of our guards. One of my favorite sets. Minus the Al end of half dribble fiasco (why don’t we always use Armaan in that position?) end of game and half plays have been much better...better spacing and better timing. Archie is growing just like our guys too. He is a young coach. The Al end of half fiasco was 100% on Al, though. Surely none of us think that play was executed how Archie drew it up, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 14 minutes ago, dgambill said: Yes I knew we had bad starts but they put up that graphic where he was like 0-17 in the past like 5 games in the first 4 minutes of games or something like that...yikes glad that got reversed because Minnesota started well too. Yeah that graphic was alarming, but what can we learn from it? People want to put our slow starts on Archie, but my goodness when your best player is starting 0fer every game what is he supposed to do? BTW, the same people who blame Archie for the slow starts think next year won't be any better because said best player is surely NBA bound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 I can admit I did not get to watch any of the game late starts kills me. I was excited to see at 4am that we won. Must have done a lot of things well TO's not withstanding. Great win now kick some Sparty butt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 21 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said: You seem to be conflating being happy with the win and overall concern about the team. People can be happy with a 10 point win over a decent B1G team and still have a lot of concern about the team's play in that and other games. They're not the same thing nor are they mutually exclusive. I agree with you that there are concerns about this team and the win didn't really alleviate those. Yet I still find it a good win and I'm happy with it as I'm happy with any win. I just don't agree that those concerns should make someone unhappy about a double digit win in which IU was comfortably ahead in the last 5 minutes or so. Negativity about this game itself would be more understandable if it was a nail-biter heading in to the last minute that ended up not looking close due to FT but that wasn't the case. Again, you're answering your own questions as to why people can't be happy with the W - that's the side I'm playing devil's advocate for, although for the record, overall I'm happy with the W. If you agree with the concerns, then it's really just a matter of how important those things are to you, and that's going to vary by person. Some see inconsistent play as the biggest issue with this team, and as you said, last night didn't really alleviate those concerns. I mean, there are tons of different ways to dissect this game - you could make the point that if we shoot our normal percentage from 3 and the FT line, we probably lose to a team that hasn't won a game on the road, for example. People are going to take different things out of a game like this. I'd say the vast majority are happy with the W, but I'd also say that most of those people agree that there were some red flags in this W. Ok, ok, orange flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: Again, you're answering your own questions as to why people can't be happy with the W - that's the side I'm playing devil's advocate for, although for the record, overall I'm happy with the W. If you agree with the concerns, then it's really just a matter of how important those things are to you, and that's going to vary by person. Some see inconsistent play as the biggest issue with this team, and as you said, last night didn't really alleviate those concerns. I mean, there are tons of different ways to dissect this game - you could make the point that if we shoot our normal percentage from 3 and the FT line, we probably lose to a team that hasn't won a game on the road, for example. People are going to take different things out of a game like this. I'd say the vast majority are happy with the W, but I'd also say that most of those people agree that there were some red flags in this W. Ok, ok, orange flags. I think the biggest drawback to this fan base is that some watch the game as if they are a coach and not a fan. People would be a lot happier if they just watch it for entertainment than thinking they have to analyze every aspect of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 18 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: Again, you're answering your own questions as to why people can't be happy with the W - that's the side I'm playing devil's advocate for, although for the record, overall I'm happy with the W. If you agree with the concerns, then it's really just a matter of how important those things are to you, and that's going to vary by person. Some see inconsistent play as the biggest issue with this team, and as you said, last night didn't really alleviate those concerns. I mean, there are tons of different ways to dissect this game - you could make the point that if we shoot our normal percentage from 3 and the FT line, we probably lose to a team that hasn't won a game on the road, for example. People are going to take different things out of a game like this. I'd say the vast majority are happy with the W, but I'd also say that most of those people agree that there were some red flags in this W. Ok, ok, orange flags. So part of the issue I have with the side that can't be happy with the W, is they don't dig into details and find things to be happy about when we lose. When we lose, results are all that matter. When we win, results aren't all that matter anymore. It's the inconsistencies of the arguments from the negative crowd that gets really old, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: I think the biggest drawback to this fan base is that some watch the game as if they are a coach and not a fan. Pepe would be a lot happier if they just watch it for entertainment than thinking they have to analyze every aspect of the game. I agree with this; but I'll also say, if that group actually coached that way they'd lose their team so quick. Can you imagine if Archie went into the post game locker room and was pissed after that win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 I’m hopeful that, whatever landed Hunter on the bench, that he’s having a Landon Turner response to the benching. So far, so good. 7, 10 and 16 in the three games he’s back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 As an aside, my biggest complaint about last night's game is moving the post game thread to this forum. Kind of a pain to flip back and forth from here to the Gen discussion board today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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