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MSU Post Game


Hoosierfan1901

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1 minute ago, Inequality said:

Excuses will only grant you mediocrity. If they intend to return to relevance then they will find a way. 

This programs identity is still the same one that gets thumped by an ISU on its home floor. 

Gregg Doyel had an article this morning about the MSU game. His last paragraph stated that IUs program has been mired in mediocrity for the last decade.... 

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26 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

IF we get the right coach.....there are many examples in which the “right coach” did not keep down a program for 3 or 4 years. Change is always a risk but is is not a “given” that a new coach will automatically lead to 3-4 more “down” years.

And there lies the rub, no?

I'm pretty much down with those who say make a home run hire or stick with what you have...and there are not a lot of home run hires out there and even fewer that would consider the job...

 

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7 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

Gregg Doyel had an article this morning about the MSU game. His last paragraph stated that IUs program has been mired in mediocrity for the last decade.... 

There have been two Big Ten titles in the last decade.  Both teams were well above mediocre.  That said, they were with a different coach.  

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5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

And there lies the rub, no?

I'm pretty much down with those who say make a home run hire or stick with what you have...and there are not a lot of home run hires out there and even fewer that would consider the job...

 

Yep,

That is the risk with every hire in every industry and it is compounded by the fact that a “non-home run” hire might turn out to be great while a “home run” hire might turn out to be disappointing. Who knows with certainty how a new hire will do but I do know that our current situation has been.....let’s say less than inspiring.

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1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

 

Looking at that, I think it was a good call...

Either way though, Armaan getting #4 that early hurt...

And then there's the Langford 3 that rattled around, went straight up, and dropped through...

I think the Brown kids 3s were more hurtful then Langford. I expect him to knock down open 3s but when both him and Brown are hitting them...that’s tough.

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17 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

And there lies the rub, no?

I'm pretty much down with those who say make a home run hire or stick with what you have...and there are not a lot of home run hires out there and even fewer that would consider the job...

 

Yep. I will just let the year play out but I’d have no problem if behind the scenes the admin wanted to put feelers out there to a few big name coaches. If they don’t get a bite then you can always follow up to smooth things over by a contact extension with Archie (keeping the buyout low). Admin is under as much pressure as Archie to get things right and Dan was correct last night. The ball got thrown to the empty seats where the millionaires sit. One thing that can easily happen is those millionaires have just experience a whole year of what it is like without IU ball games. Do they miss it or do they think you know what...I haven’t been missing out on anything special for years now...maybe I’ll spend that money somewhere else. That is a decision all ticket holders will have to make. Is mediocrity enough to get them all to come back. Are we putting a product out there that will make them yearn to spend that money....it may be yes...but I’d bet there is going to be a lot more no’s next year after people realize you know what...I really didn’t miss it that much. Admin may have to do something to get people excited again.

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4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yep. I will just let the year play out but I’d have no problem if behind the scenes the admin wanted to put feelers out there to a few big name coaches. If they don’t get a bite then you can always follow up to smooth things over by a contact extension with Archie (keeping the buyout low). Admin is under as much pressure as Archie to get things right and Dan was correct last night. The ball got thrown to the empty seats where the millionaires sit. One thing that can easily happen is those millionaires have just experience a whole year of what it is like without IU ball games. Do they miss it or do they think you know what...I haven’t been missing out on anything special for years now...maybe I’ll spend that money somewhere else. That is a decision all ticket holders will have to make. Is mediocrity enough to get them all to come back. Are we putting a product out there that will make them yearn to spend that money....it may be yes...but I’d bet there is going to be a lot more no’s next year after people realize you know what...I really didn’t miss it that much. Admin may have to do something to get people excited again.

Thing about those seats. Besides the $250 face value....for rows 1-5 you have to donate $25k per seat per year to get the right to buy those tickets. Set of four is roughly $120k per year. 

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

Same as IUFLA, I don't disagree with the call, but we see how Armaan's feet were positioned differently. I haven't gone back and looked at a screenshot or anything though, so just going off the quick replay from TV, so I could be wrong.  

This is why I hate the arc in the first place because that was an obvious charge.  The arc just is something to try to make it easier on the refs because all the look for is if you are out of the arc or not.

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Just now, IU Scott said:

This is why I hate the arc in the first place because that was an obvious charge.  The arc just is something to try to make it easier on the refs because all the look for is if you are out of the arc or not.

The arc is to prevent refs from calling ridiculous charges where the defender is standing directly under the basket. College refs call way, way too many charges, and they used to call them with the defender underneath the basket all of the time. 

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1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

One thing I keep thinking is that if they would make a change after this year, with the relaxed transfer rules and other options available to the players, we might be looking at a wholesale roster change...maybe not on the order of what Crean inherited, but a drastically different roster...

That might not be a bad thing

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1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

Just a comment/admission/rant. I don't know what it is about myself and IU basketball but maybe it's my love of the program where I'll defend our coach to the death. I defended Davis until the very end. Decided to look the other way on Sampson for the sake of winning. Truly believed in Crean with 3 Sweet 16's in 5 years until that just died and died quickly.

Enter Archie. Every team in the Midwest that was looking for a coach wanted him....or at least their fans did. Archie gets the gig. We have the big early win vs ND when Gus Johnson told the nation better days are ahead. Lands Romeo and the optimism starts building. I remember Rob hitting the 3 to beat Butler....you could see parts coming together for the future. Would have made the tourney last year in year 3....but still was a struggle.

Now here we are. In year 4. Maybe my love for IU to do well blinds me in objectively evaluating what's going on. All I do know that if this was any of my other teams (Bears, Cubs, Canes,etc..) I'd be saying enough is enough the coach is gone.

Why can't I do that with IU hoops? All I know is I'm so tired of trying to be patient and explain or defend,etc...a program that I love so much. 

Not really a post with much substance just a rant I guess. Tired of being tired I guess.

I was the same way for years and was this year until the NW game at home.  I didn't like the hire but was willing to give him a chance and I have given him time and 4 years is enough time.

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1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

Thing about those seats. Besides the $250 face value....for rows 1-5 you have to donate $25k per seat per year to get the right to buy those tickets. Set of four is roughly $120k per year. 

Yeah I don’t know too many that sit there. But yeah they have millions. Now maybe it’s more a status thing than anything but those people have to ask themselves do they miss the product we are putting on the floor? I live in Fl so I’m not a ticket buyer but those here on the board that usually do...are they rethinking it after this year? Do they think 500 basketball is worth it. It’s a good question. I know many who would never miss no matter what...I respect that...but the longer this goes on like this the more I wonder.

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Starting in the 1994-95 Season (27 seasons including this current one)

3 Big Ten Championships

1 Final Four

4 Sweet 16s

17/26 NCAA Tournaments for a 65% participation rate (assuming we were in last year)

7 times we were one and done in the tournament with an average seed of #6

We have been seeded #8 or higher more than we have been seeded #4 or lower 

Yeah, I would say we have been mediocre.  Fans are not happy, but all Archie would have to do to win over the fan base is to win, then all is forgotten.  I think you make your own luck, but IU has been very unlucky under CAM.  Romeo's wrist, Brunk's back, Rob's concussion and abdomen issue, Jerome's legs, Race's concussion, etc.  With all of this, if Rob had played like a solid (not great) point guard, I think we would be looking at a much better program.  CAM is responsible for the team's productivity, but I think most coaches would have struggled winning anymore than he has.  Maybe it is a right place, wrong time situation for CAM. Or, wrong place, wrong time.  Who knows.  Like a lot of you, I was quick to assume we would just return to relevance without this much trouble.  Even if Brad Stevens walked through the doors at AH, I don't think I would be optimistic until the wins started pilling up.  We need consistency, and the sooner we get there the better.  With, or without CAM.  I prefer with, but that doesn't mean anything.

 

 

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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Yeah I don’t know too many that sit there. But yeah they have millions. Now maybe it’s more a status thing than anything but those people have to ask themselves do they miss the product we are putting on the floor? I live in Fl so I’m not a ticket buyer but those here on the board that usually do...are they rethinking it after this year? Do they think 500 basketball is worth it. It’s a good question. I know many who would never miss no matter what...I respect that...but the longer this goes on like this the more I wonder.

My biggest mistake was not buying season tickets during first and second year of Crean. Could have jumped the line on so many. We are fortunate enough where we know several who have season tickets and typically can either use them when they can't....or just buy on open market if reasonable.

I think that's the thing though...every single time I walk in the joint I feel like the luckiest person in the world. I'll never stop buying tickets or attending games.

 

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6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

This is why I hate the arc in the first place because that was an obvious charge.  The arc just is something to try to make it easier on the refs because all the look for is if you are out of the arc or not.

The arc is fine. It’s there to prevent injuries first and foremost to teach kids not to step under kids shooting at the rim. It’s a dangerous play.

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10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

The arc is to prevent refs from calling ridiculous charges where the defender is standing directly under the basket. College refs call way, way too many charges, and they used to call them with the defender underneath the basket all of the time. 

I agree. A no-call there would have been good.

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43 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I think the Brown kids 3s were more hurtful then Langford. I expect him to knock down open 3s but when both him and Brown are hitting them...that’s tough.

Both were killers...we'd held Langford to 2 points in the first half...

Like I said, the Langford 3 that rattled the rim and then went straight up and down through took the life right out of me...that's when I thought it wasn't going to be our day...

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44 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

Yep,

That is the risk with every hire in every industry and it is compounded by the fact that a “non-home run” hire might turn out to be great while a “home run” hire might turn out to be disappointing. Who knows with certainty how a new hire will do but I do know that our current situation has been.....let’s say less than inspiring.

True.  There are no guarantees when it comes to hiring a coach, or recruiting a player. Both involve a level of uncertainty.  The so-called "home run" hires are like 5-star recruits - they simply increase the chance for success.

Archie was considered a highly regarded young coach when he agreed to come here.  Kind of like a high 4 star player perhaps. 

I think a lot of things factor in to how successful a coach ultimately is: his ability, what kind of staff he assembles, resources & restrictions of the school, injuries and chemistry of the existing and new players, and other forms of "luck".  Then you factor in recruiting and dealing with mostly immature high school players.  It's complex beyond our limited knowledge.

Bottom line for me is there does come a time when enough evidence is available to judge a coach's results.  I have to believe that time is drawing very near.  Then we enter a new unknown - what are the expectations of whomever is in charge of taking action?  We don't know and it's probably equally complex (buyouts, administration & donor demands).

All we as fans can do is speculate, predict, and opine.  It's largely beyond our control.  We're in purgatory for the foreseeable future.

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55 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Let this sink in. IU gave up 52 in the second half to a team that only scored 58 against Iowa the worst defensive team in the conference.  Yet many say how great our defense is. I might be in the minority here but we are no better today than the day we fired Tom Crean!!!

I like that Archie does emphasize defense more than Crean did, and it IS generally better, but there are times/teams when it's less than stellar.  I'm not sold on the pack-line concept.  The offense is, IMO, much less enjoyable to watch.

So I'd say your claim has merit.

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