Jump to content

Underwood, Holtman and Miller


Recommended Posts

On 2/21/2021 at 1:09 PM, Sea Turtle said:

I would have but that wouldn't be fair to Juan. He still has 2 more years to build his program. He's already surpassed Archie obviously. But he may do something special soon.

This might be unpopular but Howard is by far the best coach of that group. He gets it. Say what you want but he has learned so much from Riley and Spolstra.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

This might be unpopular but Howard is by far the best coach of that group. He gets it. Say what you want but he has learned so much from Riley and Spolstra.  

He certainly walked into the best situation...And he can recruit...Getting Dickinson was huge, and the 2 transfers he got, Chaundee Brown and Mike Smith, are both big contributors, and he's got 2 5 star recruits and 3 4 star recruits coming in next year...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

He certainly walked into the best situation...And he can recruit...Getting Dickinson was huge, and the 2 transfers he got, Chaundee Brown and Mike Smith, are both big contributors, and he's got 2 5 star recruits and 3 4 star recruits coming in next year...

Yes he did but I would take Howard over.90 percent of the other guys doing it. He is very good. I listened to Phil Martell say it took 5 minutes with Howard to understand that he gets it. Cal was the one that hooked them up and Cal said that Juwuan will be a great coach.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we all need to remember that Holtmann was not interested in the job...he felt that it was too much of a fishbowl and many have said that he made this known behind the scenes...

I live in Columbus, Ohio and I teach in a high school and have family that are Ohio State fans...as good as they are, people hardly mention it...Holtmann loves that there is no spotlight on him and no constant criticism of every decision he makes...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

This might be unpopular but Howard is by far the best coach of that group. He gets it. Say what you want but he has learned so much from Riley and Spolstra.  

you may be right.  they may be right.  i'm still waiting to see if he is really that great of a coach or if he walked into a great situation and is able to recruit. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

He certainly walked into the best situation...And he can recruit...Getting Dickinson was huge, and the 2 transfers he got, Chaundee Brown and Mike Smith, are both big contributors, and he's got 2 5 star recruits and 3 4 star recruits coming in next year...

One thing I’d like to see is IU as a program get more active with transfers.  This goes back across multiple coaches and it’s kind of how we do business.  Yes, I am aware we take transfers such as Stewart, Fitzner, and Newkirk.  My point is to allow the coach to act more like a professional GM. You look at what Howard did with the two guys you mentioned. Ohio State filled needs with at least three transfers off the top of my head.  Texas Tech had a gap and boom, here comes Mac McClung.  All three of those schools could have thought we will have a mini-rebuild but instead they went to fill gaps to stay highly competitive.  Izzo openly said his players are auditioning for next year.  We’ve heard Glass nixed McKinley Wright.  Well how different would our program look if we were to have him instead of one of our guards?

I certainly don’t want to be transfer U, but we are way too easily accepting of weaknesses like “we aren’t big this year,” or “we need a veteran guard” or “we don’t have shooting” and we automatically accept a limit on the team.  I’d much rather be aggressive in filling in gaps.  Knight did it with Garrett and Smart.  Let’s allow the program to try to fill the gaps every year no matter who we lose.  

There’s a balance that can be achieved without being solely reliant on transfers, as the other schools have shown.  They have programs not willing to sacrifice any years.  

What Howard and Holtmann and Beard are doing with transfers helps allow them to dominate us.  It’s akin to the baseball GM who has a hole at third base.  He’s not going to say I’m playing a minor leaguer.  He’s going to acquire someone somehow who can help.  

Edited by BobSaccamanno
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If there are coaches who are shying away from fish bowl programs like us then we need to go after guys who want the spotlight. Guys who want and thrive from pressure.

We need to be going after guys like Calipari, Pearl, Pitino. Guys who aren't afraid. Not those guys specifically but with their moxie and confidence. 

Can Nick Saban or Brian Kelly coach basketball?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beilien set a strong foundation at UM. Howard, with his NBA career, has been able to attract high level talents. Good things happen when a new coach inherits a well coached team with strong culture, and if the new coach can sprinkle a few 5 star talents on top of it, that's even better. Question is if Howard is the true leader of young men and can guide and nurture them into responsible adults, which is key to longevity. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Sea Turtle said:

If there are coaches who are shying away from fish bowl programs like us then we need to go after guys who want the spotlight. Guys who want and thrive from pressure.

We need to be going after guys like Calipari, Pearl, Pitino. Guys who aren't afraid. Not those guys specifically but with their moxie and confidence. 

Can Nick Saban or Brian Kelly coach basketball?

That's one thing I like about Oats. He may be unproven to some (myself to a lesser degree), but I've heard him do radio interviews twice in the past week (one was w/ DD). Came away very impressed. He is taking advantage of the benefits Bama football provides including taking recruits to football games (pre-COVID) on their visits, picking Saban's mind anytime he gets the opportunity, attending when they have guest speakers (mentioned Kobe specifically), etc. I know Bama basketball isn't a fishbowl, but football certainly is, so he sees how Saban has embraced and utilized it instead of allowing it to be a negative. He just seems to get it to me and seems to have the self-awareness that many coaches are missing.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, addictedtoIU said:

Beilien set a strong foundation at UM. Howard, with his NBA career, has been able to attract high level talents. Good things happen when a new coach inherits a well coached team with strong culture, and if the new coach can sprinkle a few 5 star talents on top of it, that's even better. Question is if Howard is the true leader of young men and can guide and nurture them into responsible adults, which is key to longevity. 

And Michigan is just a well known school, highly respected for both sport and academics.  Their basketball program has been successful for the last 30 years and kids just want to go there.  Michigan is a National Brand for the University and Sports.  I can't say that about IU.  We were a good University with a WELL known basketball program and coach.  Now, we're just part of the B1G with an up and coming football program

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

And Michigan is just a well known school, highly respected for both sport and academics.  Their basketball program has been successful for the last 30 years and kids just want to go there.  Michigan is a National Brand for the University and Sports.  I can't say that about IU.  We were a good University with a WELL known basketball program and coach.  Now, we're just part of the B1G with an up and coming football program

Yes I think UM has a better overall brand than IU. IU hung tough with being a college basketball royalty, but we lost that aura after 2 decades of 4 mis-hires. When looking back, it's kind of amazing to see how incompetent IU administration has been. As a blueblood, it'd be awfully difficult to be wrong on 4 consecutive hiring decisions. If this is a for-profit company, the company would've already filed bankruptcy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cybergates said:

That's one thing I like about Oats. He may be unproven to some (myself to a lesser degree), but I've heard him do radio interviews twice in the past week (one was w/ DD). Came away very impressed. He is taking advantage of the benefits Bama football provides including taking recruits to football games (pre-COVID) on their visits, picking Saban's mind anytime he gets the opportunity, attending when they have guest speakers (mentioned Kobe specifically), etc. I know Bama basketball isn't a fishbowl, but football certainly is, so he sees how Saban has embraced and utilized it instead of allowing it to be a negative. He just seems to get it to me and seems to have the self-awareness that many coaches are missing.

This is a very good and accurate take with Oats.  No one knows yet how his career will trend, but I would roll the dice on his style of play and personality.  With his focus on analytical data, he would seem to be a coach that would adjust when things aren't working, based on the numbers.  His style also lends itself to high level recruits.

Alabama fans don't give a rip about basketball.  True fans are few and far between.  They're mildly excited for this year, but if they get upset in the tournament,  any enthusiasm will be gone for Oats.  Spring football still owns the discussion this time of year.

Love that Oats is learning from Saban. Not his personality, but his systems, process, and player and assistant development. That will serve him well in the future when higher profile basketball programs come calling.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

Yes he did but I would take Howard over.90 percent of the other guys doing it. He is very good. I listened to Phil Martell say it took 5 minutes with Howard to understand that he gets it. Cal was the one that hooked them up and Cal said that Juwuan will be a great coach.

He has been a lot better than I thought and it is looking up for them.  I also remember guys like Davis and Ollie that started out well but flopped once it was truly their own team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

He has been a lot better than I thought and it is looking up for them.  I also remember guys like Davis and Ollie that started out well but flopped once it was truly their own team.

Neither of them had a long NBA career and sat on the bench for guys like Riley and Spolstra. I think Martelli is very good and if says JH is the real deal I will take his word for it. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Sea Turtle said:

If there are coaches who are shying away from fish bowl programs like us then we need to go after guys who want the spotlight. Guys who want and thrive from pressure.

We need to be going after guys like Calipari, Pearl, Pitino. Guys who aren't afraid. Not those guys specifically but with their moxie and confidence. 

Can Nick Saban or Brian Kelly coach basketball?

I still think this fan base is a detriment when it comes to coaches wanting to come here.  I know UK fans are the same and that is probably why Billy Donovan turned them down twice.  Why would any established coach want to come here knowing that after a couple of years if they haven't turned it around they will be on the hot seat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I still think this fan base is a detriment when it comes to coaches wanting to come here.  I know UK fans are the same and that is probably why Billy Donovan turned them down twice.  Why would any established coach want to come here knowing that after a couple of years if they haven't turned it around they will be on the hot seat.

I have no idea why you continue to try to push this narrative. At one point, IU was considered one of a handful of blue blood programs. As FCTC once said, "It's Indiana." These results wouldn't be acceptable at any of the other blue blood schools, along with a number of schools that aren't considered to be at that level, including at least half of the B1G programs. It's ridiculous to try to blame the fans when you struggle to make the tournament for 4 straight years, continue to have the same problems game after game after game, and have a losing streak against your main rival that's closing in on double figures. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, AxnJxn said:

I have no idea why you continue to try to push this narrative. At one point, IU was considered one of a handful of blue blood programs. As FCTC once said, "It's Indiana." These results wouldn't be acceptable at any of the other blue blood schools, along with a number of schools that aren't considered to be at that level, including at least half of the B1G programs. It's ridiculous to try to blame the fans when you struggle to make the tournament for 4 straight years, continue to have the same problems game after game after game, and have a losing streak against your main rival that's closing in on double figures. 

I never said they are acceptable and want a change.  What I am saying is that we won't be getting some of the elite coaches because they will not want to come here.  People who think if we just make a change that we will get any coach we want will be very disappointed.  I ask you what is here at IU that is not at any of the other top programs in the country.  What would make a Beard or Bennett leave their established jobs to come here knowing that if in two years they could be getting heat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I never said they are acceptable and want a change.  What I am saying is that we won't be getting some of the elite coaches because they will not want to come here.  People who think if we just make a change that we will get any coach we want will be very disappointed.  I ask you what is here at IU that is not at any of the other top programs in the country.  What would make a Beard or Bennett leave their established jobs to come here knowing that if in two years they could be getting heat.

You've been blaming the fans for years. Any coach worth his salt is going to know that they're going to get some heat if they have the results we've had, and no reasonable IU fan was calling for CAM's job after 2 years. There are tons of reasons why coaches will pick certain destinations that have nothing to do with fans, and trying to blame the fans is simply ignoring the reality of the situation and the reality of the majority of successful P5 programs.

You said yourself these results aren't acceptable. By your logic, aren't you part of the problem?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I never said they are acceptable and want a change.  What I am saying is that we won't be getting some of the elite coaches because they will not want to come here.  People who think if we just make a change that we will get any coach we want will be very disappointed.  I ask you what is here at IU that is not at any of the other top programs in the country.  What would make a Beard or Bennett leave their established jobs to come here knowing that if in two years they could be getting heat.

if i'm a confident, experienced college head coach, i might care about the AD and president, but i'm not losing sleep over fans on a message board.  there's just no way that all fans are going to love any coach and think he never does anything wrong.  it goes with the position.  

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...