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Underwood, Holtman and Miller


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12 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

You've been blaming the fans for years. Any coach worth his salt is going to know that they're going to get some heat if they have the results we've had, and no reasonable IU fan was calling for CAM's job after 2 years. There are tons of reasons why coaches will pick certain destinations that have nothing to do with fans, and trying to blame the fans is simply ignoring the reality of the situation and the reality of the majority of successful P5 programs.

You said yourself these results aren't acceptable. By your logic, aren't you part of the problem?

Well if the reports are true Holtmann didn't have any desire to come here because of the fish bowl.

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20 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I never said they are acceptable and want a change.  What I am saying is that we won't be getting some of the elite coaches because they will not want to come here.  People who think if we just make a change that we will get any coach we want will be very disappointed.  I ask you what is here at IU that is not at any of the other top programs in the country.  What would make a Beard or Bennett leave their established jobs to come here knowing that if in two years they could be getting heat.

The challenge to opportunity to restore the Glory. Why would Brian Kelly go to ND, why did Saban go to Bama.  If you win a National Championship at IU with all this fan base has been through you are a living legend immediately. The questions is if you believe in yourself enough to get it done and can handle the heat if you don't. Its easy to be comfortable but you cant be both comfortable and great. 

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12 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

if i'm a confident, experienced college head coach, i might care about the AD and president, but i'm not losing sleep over fans on a message board.  there's just no way that all fans are going to love any coach and think he never does anything wrong.  it goes with the position.  

I am not saying we won't get any coach but we will not get an established to elite coach and part of it is the fans.  What I am saying is if everything else is equal why would a coach like Beard leave a place where he can pretty much have his job as long as he wants.  What does IU give them that they don't have where they are at this time.

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1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

The challenge to opportunity to restore the Glory. Why would Brian Kelly go to ND, why did Saban go to Bama.  If you win a National Championship at IU with all this fan base has been through you are a living legend immediately. The questions is if you believe in yourself enough to get it done and can handle the heat if you don't. Its easy to be comfortable but you cant be both comfortable and great. 

Kelly was going from UC to ND and that is the difference.  If he was at a higher level where he has had success and won big then he probably wouldn't have went to ND.  UC facilities and budget isn't even close to ND so that is the reason he went.  Saban knew he wasn't right for the NFL and came back to college and of course would take the Alabama job.

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Well if the reports are true Holtmann didn't have any desire to come here because of the fish bowl.

So? Then that just says he can't handle the challenge. You've said that you're not happy with the results from CAM, but it's ok for you to question those results but not the rest of the fanbase? Do you realize this is how you sound? Again, if we follow your logic, then you yourself are part of the problem. 

When we hired CAM, we were getting one of the hottest mid major coaches in the country. Granted, the results haven't turned out like we all wish, but it's clear this program still attracts top talent, both at the coaching position and the players - we currently have multiple 5 star guys on the roster. If the reason for a coach not coming here is the fans, then they're simply not cut out for this job, or at minimum a dozen other jobs in the country.

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Just now, IU Scott said:

Kelly was going from UC to ND and that is the difference.  If he was at a higher level where he has had success and won big then he probably wouldn't have went to ND.  UC facilities and budget isn't even close to ND so that is the reason he went.  Saban knew he wasn't right for the NFL and came back to college and of course would take the Alabama job.

No matter what anyone says you will think what you want and thats fine. Do you think that Texas Tech and IU are much different than UC and ND?  Have you ever been to Lubbuck, TX? The best don't mind the challenge. If they are scared of that then they need to stay where they are. I respect CAM because he knew the challenge and still wanted to do it. 

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Just now, AxnJxn said:

So? Then that just says he can't handle the challenge. You've said that you're not happy with the results from CAM, but it's ok for you to question those results but not the rest of the fanbase? Do you realize this is how you sound? Again, if we follow your logic, then you yourself are part of the problem. 

When we hired CAM, we were getting one of the hottest mid major coaches in the country. Granted, the results haven't turned out like we all wish, but it's clear this program still attracts top talent, both at the coaching position and the players - we currently have multiple 5 star guys on the roster. If the reason for a coach not coming here is the fans, then they're simply not cut out for this job, or at minimum a dozen other jobs in the country.

I am totally part of the problem as is the rest of the fan base.  Not saying we are the only problem with the program but we are part of it.  It could be that we are living in the past and those expectations come from something that hasn't been produced at IU in 25 years.  The other week there was a discussion that we should not live in the past because it is hurting the program.  So to me if we are to forget the past then why are the expectations today so high.  Those expectations came from the past but if we look at the current state or the recent past then why is the expectations the same as it were 35 years ago.

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4 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

No matter what anyone says you will think what you want and thats fine. Do you think that Texas Tech and IU are much different than UC and ND?  Have you ever been to Lubbuck, TX? The best don't mind the challenge. If they are scared of that then they need to stay where they are. I respect CAM because he knew the challenge and still wanted to do it. 

I seen TT go to the national championship and a couple of minutes of winning that championship.  Beard makes more than what Miller makes here and as long as he stays competitive he will have a job as long as he wants it.

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3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I am totally part of the problem as is the rest of the fan base.  Not saying we are the only problem with the program but we are part of it.  It could be that we are living in the past and those expectations come from something that hasn't been produced at IU in 25 years.  The other week there was a discussion that we should not live in the past because it is hurting the program.  So to me if we are to forget the past then why are the expectations today so high.  Those expectations came from the past but if we look at the current state or the recent past then why is the expectations the same as it were 35 years ago.

This post is illogical.  In what way do you, IU Scott, create any problem at all for the coach and team as they play?

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Just now, IU Scott said:

I seen TT go to the national championship and a couple of minutes of winning that championship.  Beard makes more than what Miller makes here and as long as he stays competitive he will have a job as long as he wants it.

Of course he will and he will still be second fiddle to football and Texas. Bob Knight couldn't make basketball top priority there.  We are selling IU basketball short if we don't think we could lure some big names away. We have to make the risk of failure worth it to them. 

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2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I am totally part of the problem as is the rest of the fan base.  Not saying we are the only problem with the program but we are part of it.  It could be that we are living in the past and those expectations come from something that hasn't been produced at IU in 25 years.  The other week there was a discussion that we should not live in the past because it is hurting the program.  So to me if we are to forget the past then why are the expectations today so high.  Those expectations came from the past but if we look at the current state or the recent past then why is the expectations the same as it were 35 years ago.

Why are the expectations today so high? Seriously? There are currently 4 B1G teams in the top 10, and we're struggling to make the tournament. Does that answer your question?

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Just now, Fundamentals said:

This post is illogical.  In what way do you, IU Scott, create any problem at all for the coach and team as they play?

Because all the fire Archie post and then articles about firing him get back to other coaches who uses it against us in recruiting.  Also we know recruits and their families read this stuff so why would they come here knowing that the fans are not behind their coach.  Why would a recruit come here thinking that Archie will not be here when he gets here.  Also it is just not this board but other social media outlets like Twitter or Facebook where fans are going at current players.

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2 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

Why are the expectations today so high? Seriously? There are currently 4 B1G teams in the top 10, and we're struggling to make the tournament. Does that answer your question?

And 3 of the teams in the Top 5 have coaches who have had the same term length (or less) than Miller.

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2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Of course he will and he will still be second fiddle to football and Texas. Bob Knight couldn't make basketball top priority there.  We are selling IU basketball short if we don't think we could lure some big names away. We have to make the risk of failure worth it to them. 

Why do you think that is a big deal to a coach whether it is a football school or not.  It is said that is what Holtmann likes about OSU is that he can just go out and coach his team. He does not have to worry about a lot of the outside stuff that goes along with big time basketball schools.  Again what is at IU right now that most of the other top programs have because everyone has great facilities now and TT is able to pay beard top 10 money

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Just now, IU Scott said:

Because all the fire Archie post and then articles about firing him get back to other coaches who uses it against us in recruiting.  Also we know recruits and their families read this stuff so why would they come here knowing that the fans are not behind their coach.  Why would a recruit come here thinking that Archie will not be here when he gets here.  Also it is just not this board but other social media outlets like Twitter or Facebook where fans are going at current players.

If Miller misses the tournament this year, that is 4 years of no tournament (I know that ticks IUFLA off to say that, but we were a bubble team last year and there was no guarantee we were in the tournament last year).  How many schools anywhere that pay a comparable rate to what Indiana pays for coaches, would not be looking to move on after 4 years of that?

Miller would be feeling the heat for his record at any P5 school not on par with Northwestern or Penn State.  

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5 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

Why are the expectations today so high? Seriously? There are currently 4 B1G teams in the top 10, and we're struggling to make the tournament. Does that answer your question?

Yes why is the expectations so high at IU because for most of the last 25 years we haven't  finished in the top 4 of the big ten.  Like I said us old timers were told not to live in the past so if we don't then the recent past hasn't been great so those should be the expectations.

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1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said:

If Miller misses the tournament this year, that is 4 years of no tournament (I know that ticks IUFLA off to say that, but we were a bubble team last year and there was no guarantee we were in the tournament last year).  How many schools anywhere that pay a comparable rate to what Indiana pays for coaches, would not be looking to move on after 4 years of that?

Miller would be feeling the heat for his record at any P5 school not on par with Northwestern or Penn State.  

I am not saying he should be kept and it is not people complaining about this year so much.  It was people started turning on him in year two and probably some in year one after the ISU game.  Coaches see that after a year or two that if you don't produce the fans will start turning on you is the turn off.

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3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Why do you think that is a big deal to a coach whether it is a football school or not.  It is said that is what Holtmann likes about OSU is that he can just go out and coach his team. He does not have to worry about a lot of the outside stuff that goes along with big time basketball schools.  Again what is at IU right now that most of the other top programs have because everyone has great facilities now and TT is able to pay beard top 10 money

Whether they admit it or not all coaches have a pretty big ego to a certain extent and most want to succeed at the highest level. For some the idea of returning IU to glory is too intimidating and for others its a challenge that they would love to have. Many of the coaches now grew up seeing Bob Knight and IU a powerhouse. Most won't believe it but Coach K would have come to IU when Knight retired if it had been on his own. You don't have to believe it but there wold have been a great chance of that happening. There are others out there that would welcome the challenge. 

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Yes why is the expectations so high at IU because for most of the last 25 years we haven't  finished in the top 4 of the big ten.  Like I said us old timers were told not to live in the past so if we don't then the recent past hasn't been great so those should be the expectations.

What do you think the expectations are at the moment?  Do you really think just making the tournament is too much of an ask?  Like just one time in 4 years, get into the tournament without having to bite your nails on Selection Sunday.  Like, if that is too high an expectation, what should we lower ourselves to?  And again, we pay $3 million a year to the person we are putting these expectations on.  (And anyone who argues the money does not matter is full of crap.  You don't pay $3 million to a guy to just put a team on the floor and compete.  You pay a guy that money to be in the Top 25 on a regular basis.)

If we are going to lower expectations, drop the coaches pay, bring in a Dane Fife, and then lower ticket prices.  Send a real message that winning does not matter.  Let me know though so I can start dropping some of the extra money I pay for sports channels and things like that so I can watch IU.  If we don't care, I don't need ESPN or the BTN.

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Just now, Billingsley99 said:

Whether they admit it or not all coaches have a pretty big ego to a certain extent and most want to succeed at the highest level. For some the idea of returning IU to glory is too intimidating and for others its a challenge that they would love to have. Many of the coaches now grew up seeing Bob Knight and IU a powerhouse. Most won't believe it but Coach K would have come to IU when Knight retired if it had been on his own. You don't have to believe it but there wold have been a great chance of that happening. There are others out there that would welcome the challenge. 

I thought we might get coach K in 88 if RMK had went to New Mexico.  At that time he had just went to 1 final four so I thought there were a chance but doubt he would have came.  Especially if RMK told him why he was wanting to get away from IU so I doubt coach K would have followed him.

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1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said:

What do you think the expectations are at the moment?  Do you really think just making the tournament is too much of an ask?  Like just one time in 4 years, get into the tournament without having to bite your nails on Selection Sunday.  Like, if that is too high an expectation, what should we lower ourselves to?  And again, we pay $3 million a year to the person we are putting these expectations on.  (And anyone who argues the money does not matter is full of crap.  You don't pay $3 million to a guy to just put a team on the floor and compete.  You pay a guy that money to be in the Top 25 on a regular basis.)

If we are going to lower expectations, drop the coaches pay, bring in a Dane Fife, and then lower ticket prices.  Send a real message that winning does not matter.  Let me know though so I can start dropping some of the extra money I pay for sports channels and things like that so I can watch IU.  If we don't care, I don't need ESPN or the BTN.

I think most peoples expectations are still based on winning championships and not just making the tournament.  I guarantee you even if we made the the tournament every year but don't get to the final four our fans will still be up in arms calling for the coaches head.

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6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Yes why is the expectations so high at IU because for most of the last 25 years we haven't  finished in the top 4 of the big ten.  Like I said us old timers were told not to live in the past so if we don't then the recent past hasn't been great so those should be the expectations.

You want to ignore the history at IU, and set expectations accordingly? Fine. There are 4 programs in our own conference, as noted 3 of which hired coaches the same year we did, that are in the top 10. I don't think it's a problem with the fans when they have an expectation that we're not staring at an NIT bid in year 4. 

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2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I thought we might get coach K in 88 if RMK had went to New Mexico.  At that time he had just went to 1 final four so I thought there were a chance but doubt he would have came.  Especially if RMK told him why he was wanting to get away from IU so I doubt coach K would have followed him.

It was well after 88 that he would have came. It was also after 92 even thought RMK and K were not speaking. K had enough respect for RMK to not even consider it after the firing. K wanted to be the successor to RMK. I got that from several very close to that relationship 

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