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He lost a game he was favored by double digits in by double digits twice that season.  Twice.  That is rare to see that big a turn around once in 5 years.  Archie did it twice.  He then brought in the

One thing I’d like to see is IU as a program get more active with transfers.  This goes back across multiple coaches and it’s kind of how we do business.  Yes, I am aware we take transfers such as Ste

if i'm a confident, experienced college head coach, i might care about the AD and president, but i'm not losing sleep over fans on a message board.  there's just no way that all fans are going to love

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50 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Nope.  It is an asterisk year but I am not going to act like we were in when we were firmly on the bubble going into the BTT.  We won a game and then had Ohio State I believe coming up.  A team that we have not performed well against.  We had a losing record in the BT and I think would have needed 2 wins in the BTT to just get us to .500 against conference opponents.  

I don't think we were a slam dunk to be in the tournament.  We were just as likely to be NIT bound as we were in the tourney.   If we would have had a better year around sandwiched around those off years, fans would be more willing to give benefit of the doubt.  But we haven't.  That was a subpar year where we went into our conference tournament needing to win games.  This year is likely to be the same.

Call it fair or unfair, it is not like we had 25 wins and were 3rd place in our conference.  I think if that was the case everyone would have given a pass, but we weren't, so alot of people aren't.

We would have been in last year and after beating Neb. we would have played PSU

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10 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Be careful you are making a case that supports the other side. The game was not played streak continues just like IU streak of missing tourney. 

I look at it more like this...

If that's the case, then saying "IU has missed the tournament 2 years in a row" would be the most correct,  and if we miss this year, it would be correct to say "IU has missed the tournament 3 years in a row"...Right?

You're saying the streak would continue through an interruption and I agree with that. The way people frame it here would be if DiMaggio hit in 56 games and the 57th was rained out, he'd get credit for the 57th game even though it was never played, which would, of course be incorrect. We don't know if he would have gotten a hit just like we don't know if Indiana would have made the field of 64 last year (although as I said, I couldn't find a bracket from last year that had us out)...

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34 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

So, let me get this straight...

Kansas and Gonzaga get to keep their record intact with an asterisk for the 2020 season, but IU, who was in the field by every 2020 bracket I can find, "missed the tournament for 4 straight years." 

I think this is where I get a little lost...Everyone, save a few posters, are supposed to be IU fans...Yet anything you can dream up to get this coach gone is fair game, even if it smells...

I haven't said a word about criticism  of Archie, because some of it is deserved...But be fair about it...

 

He can have an asterisk there if you want.  But he has not coached a tournament game since he set foot on campus and we were not decisively in last year.  I am not going to give him credit for making the tournament in year 3 because A)it was not played and B)we were firmly on the outside looking in entering the BTT and no one knows if winning that one game would have been enough.  If we were 25-7 when the season was cancelled, I think he would get credit for that.  We weren't.  And to top it off he is doing poorly again.  And that matters.  "Well it is not a fact that we missed..."  Cool, technically you are right.  But I am also right in saying that he has never made the tournament while at Indiana, he was no lock to make it when the year was cancelled, and he has a really uphill battle facing him to get there this year.

I will say this, if Gonzaga was 17-10 going into their conference tourney last year, no, I probably would not have considered their streak alive.  Same for Kansas.

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5 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

He can have an asterisk there if you want.  But he has not coached a tournament game since he set foot on campus and we were not decisively in last year.  I am not going to give him credit for making the tournament in year 3 because A)it was not played and B)we were firmly on the outside looking in entering the BTT and no one knows if winning that one game would have been enough.  If we were 25-7 when the season was cancelled, I think he would get credit for that.  We weren't.  And to top it off he is doing poorly again.  And that matters.  "Well it is not a fact that we missed..."  Cool, technically you are right.  But I am also right in saying that he has never made the tournament while at Indiana, he was no lock to make it when the year was cancelled, and he has a really uphill battle facing him to get there this year.

I will say this, if Gonzaga was 17-10 going into their conference tourney last year, no, I probably would not have considered their streak alive.  Same for Kansas.

We're we 100.percent in last year probably not but I would put it at 98.5 chance we were in

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27 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

We would have been in last year and after beating Neb. we would have played PSU

A Penn State program that spent time ranked in the Top 10 and a team we split the regular season with, playing in a tournament we never do well in.  We had lost 6 of our last 10 going into the tournament and 8 of the last 12.  We finished 10th in our conference.   Every team that finished above us, save 1 (Michigan) had as many wins or more than us overall.  Our NET was 59 on March 10, 2020.

I just don't think that making the tournament was the slam dunk some of you all are saying it was.  So no, I'm not giving credit for Archie making the tournament and even though it was not played, I think chances were highly likely that we would not have been playing in it.

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2 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

A Penn State program that spent time ranked in the Top 10 and a team we split the regular season with, playing in a tournament we never do well in.  We had lost 6 of our last 10 going into the tournament and 8 of the last 12.  We finished 10th in our conference.   Every team that finished above us, save 1 (Michigan) had as many wins or more than us overall.  Our NET was 59 on March 10, 2020.

I just don't think that making the tournament was the slam dunk some of you all are saying it was.  So no, I'm not giving credit for Archie making the tournament and even though it was not played, I think chances were highly likely that we would not have been playing in it.

You are about the only way to think that because the majority of the people doing brackets had us in.  I think we were in even if we lost to PSU so to me that game didn't matter

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14 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

He can have an asterisk there if you want.  But he has not coached a tournament game since he set foot on campus and we were not decisively in last year.  I am not going to give him credit for making the tournament in year 3 because A)it was not played and B)we were firmly on the outside looking in entering the BTT and no one knows if winning that one game would have been enough.  If we were 25-7 when the season was cancelled, I think he would get credit for that.  We weren't.  And to top it off he is doing poorly again.  And that matters.  "Well it is not a fact that we missed..."  Cool, technically you are right.  But I am also right in saying that he has never made the tournament while at Indiana, he was no lock to make it when the year was cancelled, and he has a really uphill battle facing him to get there this year.

I will say this, if Gonzaga was 17-10 going into their conference tourney last year, no, I probably would not have considered their streak alive.  Same for Kansas.

There are posters here who say, or, at least, did as of a month ago or so, that IU definitely would've made the tournament last year. I've been told that it wasn't debatable, was a sure thing, no doubt, not a bubble team, etc. I don't think IUFLA was one of those posters as he/she tends to say "likely in."

I agree with you and I've used many of the same points you're making on this topic. I gave up on fighting it. Good luck.

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5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I never asked anyone to do that...But in all fairness don't say he "missed it" either...

This is just semantics.  Fine, he didn't miss that which was not played. 

Here is what he did do last year.  He finished 10th in his conference.  He had a losing record in his conference.  Every team that was above him in conference except 1 had 20 wins or more total.  His team's NET ranking heading into the tournament was 59.  He lost 8 of the last 12 games they played going into the conference tournament.  And we had a game against Penn State, a team that was reeling down the stretch as well but had split the regular season series with us.  And winning that game might have got us in...but even a win there and we still had some demerits against us.

You want the "saved by an asterisk", have it.  It was still a crappy year that has been bookended by two other crappy years.  And do I have an agenda?  Yes.  I am tired of watching bad, losing basketball.  And in my mind right now, Archie Miller equals bad, losing basketball.  So I don't really feel like giving him any benefit of the doubt on the unknowns.  He's never made the tournament while at Indiana.  Period.  Last year was not good enough for me to say, he probably would have made it.  Is that based on some facts?  Yes.  Is it based on some speculation?  Yes.  Is that view further clouded by the absolute shhh show his coaching career at Indiana has been?  You bet.  Perception is reality.  

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Technically speaking these are both true: 

  • CAM has only missed the tournament twice at IU (and if we miss this year, he will have missed the tournament three out of four years)
  • CAM has not made the tournament in his first three seasons at IU (and if we do not make it this year, he will have not made it all four seasons at IU)

Have fun...

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6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Buy understanding the selection process and trusting what people were saying about our chances.

You don't understand the process any more than I do.  How many teams with a NET or RPI around 60 that finished 10th in their conference and had a losing record in that conference and finished 4-8 to wrap up the season can you point to as making the tournament?

We were in trouble going into Selection Sunday based on the games we played.  There were plenty saying we still had work to do after the Nebraska game.

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5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

So I was pretty close and most had us as a 10 seed so that is pretty comfortably in

10 is not comfortably in.  10/11 for a P5 means you are getting bounced if the conference tournaments don't go exactly as planned.  So we were on the bubble.  Which is what I have been saying. 

On the bubble with a whole bunch of negatives.

But whatever, I am done with arguing this.  Archie has been a failure at Indiana by most measures.  If people want to grasp last year as a "maybe we sucked a little less", have at it.

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14 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

This is just semantics.  Fine, he didn't miss that which was not played. 

Here is what he did do last year.  He finished 10th in his conference.  He had a losing record in his conference.  Every team that was above him in conference except 1 had 20 wins or more total.  His team's NET ranking heading into the tournament was 59.  He lost 8 of the last 12 games they played going into the conference tournament.  And we had a game against Penn State, a team that was reeling down the stretch as well but had split the regular season series with us.  And winning that game might have got us in...but even a win there and we still had some demerits against us.

You want the "saved by an asterisk", have it.  It was still a crappy year that has been bookended by two other crappy years.  And do I have an agenda?  Yes.  I am tired of watching bad, losing basketball.  And in my mind right now, Archie Miller equals bad, losing basketball.  So I don't really feel like giving him any benefit of the doubt on the unknowns.  He's never made the tournament while at Indiana.  Period.  Last year was not good enough for me to say, he probably would have made it.  Is that based on some facts?  Yes.  Is it based on some speculation?  Yes.  Is that view further clouded by the absolute shhh show his coaching career at Indiana has been?  You bet.  Perception is reality.  

Never said it was a good season or happy with it but I only disagreed with you that we wasn't in the tournament last year.

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4 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

10 is not comfortably in.  10/11 for a P5 means you are getting bounced if the conference tournaments don't go exactly as planned.  So we were on the bubble.  Which is what I have been saying. 

On the bubble with a whole bunch of negatives.

But whatever, I am done with arguing this.  Archie has been a failure at Indiana by most measures.  If people want to grasp last year as a "maybe we sucked a little less", have at it.

By the time they cancelled the conference tournaments most of the one bid leagues had already completed their tournament.  So there was not to many bid stealers left out there

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Never said it was a good season or happy with it but I only disagreed with you that we wasn't in the tournament last year.

If I cannot say we missed it when we never played a game in it, you sure as heck cannot take credit for saying we were in under the same circumstances.  I can miss a bus that never arrives to the bus stop but you sure as heck can't board one that never arrives.

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Say we got in last year as a 10th seed. We likely lose if you look at the general level of performance from IU in any tournament since 2002.  Even during the Sweet 16 years under Crean we were close to losing in second round games to Temple and VCU.  At this point I would say that there is less than a 20% chance that we make the tournament based on how we have performed against the teams left on our schedule. Let's say we go 1-3 to finish the regular season. What are the chances that we win a game in the BT Tournament? 20%, 25%?  Who give a rats rear end if we made the 2020 NCAA tournament on paper as a 10 seed.  Whether we say we haven't made the tourney under CAM, or we say we made it one year as a 10th seed seems to have zero bearing on the ultimate question: What the heck is the plan for being a relevant basketball program again?  

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The fact that we are 'in' as of today is irrelevant.  We have 4 upcoming games.  3 on the road against teams that already beat us at home.  The home game is against the #3 team in the country.  What about that schedule makes anyone feel we can go 2-2 and maintain status quo?  Saying we are in now is very shortsighted.

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