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Has the clock stopped on “Miller Time?”


Danomatic

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2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

At this point, no. Phinisee is a complete mess, maybe an offseason changes that, but this is two years in a row now. 

On Lander, I like his court vision and handles, but I'm not as high on him as others, and I would be really worried going into next season with those two as our only legitimate point guard options. I mean, Lander has made ONE two-point field goal the entire season. I know he's young, but he shouldn't be that far behind. People point to Kira Lewis as a point guard that reclassified as a 17 year old and struggled at Alabama as a freshmen, but he averaged 13.5 ppg and shot 48.6% from the field and 36% from 3 his first year. 

Comparing Kira to Lander in the B1G this year is not apples to apples.   

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9 minutes ago, Bustout said:

Comparing Kira to Lander in the B1G this year is not apples to apples.   

Ok, I can agree with that. But at the same time their numbers and production are also miles apart. Lander hasn't produced even remotely close to what Lewis did as a freshmen. 

Edit. His freshmen year Lewis made 103 2pt field goals. Lander has made 1 the entire season.

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25 minutes ago, BGleas said:

At this point, no. Phinisee is a complete mess, maybe an offseason changes that, but this is two years in a row now. 

On Lander, I like his court vision and handles, but I'm not as high on him as others, and I would be really worried going into next season with those two as our only legitimate point guard options. I mean, Lander has made ONE two-point field goal the entire season. I know he's young, but he shouldn't be that far behind. People point to Kira Lewis as a point guard that reclassified as a 17 year old and struggled at Alabama as a freshmen, but he averaged 13.5 ppg and shot 48.6% from the field and 36% from 3 his first year. 

Understand your concerns, but Lander's court vision is special from what I've seen (and you acknowledged that).

Let's see how hard he works this summer...

Rob I'm just stumped by...love his one the ball D, but his shot is completely out of whack...I'm hoping he can figure that out...

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Just now, IUFLA said:

Understand your concerns, but Lander's court vision is special from what I've seen (and you acknowledged that).

Let's see how hard he works this summer...

Rob I'm just stumped by...love his one the ball D, but his shot is completely out of whack...I'm hoping he can figure that out...

Absolutely, his vision and potential to control pace and tempo could be special. I understand a full year in a college weight room/program could make a huge change, but it is extremely concerning to me that he has shot this poorly. I know I'm harping on it, but he's made one 2pt basket the entire season and that came 30 seconds into his first game. I'm not suggesting he should be scoring 10ppg or anything, but there should at least be some signs of being a scoring option. 

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Absolutely, his vision and potential to control pace and tempo could be special. I understand a full year in a college weight room/program could make a huge change, but it is extremely concerning to me that he has shot this poorly. I know I'm harping on it, but he's made one 2pt basket the entire season and that came 30 seconds into his first game. I'm not suggesting he should be scoring 10ppg or anything, but there should at least be some signs of being a scoring option. 

I'm not sure his outside shot will ever be anything special. I know there have been great shooters with funky form, but I'm a "good form" guy.

For some reason he's hesitant to go to the hoop...did it once a few games ago, got the shot off but missed it...I'm hoping he'll improve there next year...

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8 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I'm not sure his outside shot will ever be anything special. I know there have been great shooters with funky form, but I'm a "good form" guy.

For some reason he's hesitant to go to the hoop...did it once a few games ago, got the shot off but missed it...I'm hoping he'll improve there next year...

Yeah, I'm more concerned about his ability to score inside the 3pt line. One field goal all season is pretty concerning to me. 

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12 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, I'm more concerned about his ability to score inside the 3pt line. One field goal all season is pretty concerning to me. 

This is what’s concerning to me.  Lander really hasn’t shown any ability to score the ball, even in flashes.  Especially considering the lack of development we’ve seen in our guards under Archie thus far, I don’t see how we can count on him being a 15 ppg scorer next season, which is really what we’ll need out of him if we’re going to actually contend for a conference championship.

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5 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

This is what’s concerning to me.  Lander really hasn’t shown any ability to score the ball, even in flashes.  Especially considering the lack of development we’ve seen in our guards under Archie thus far, I don’t see how we can count on him being a 15 ppg scorer next season, which is really what we’ll need out of him if we’re going to actually contend for a conference championship.

Yeah, he certainly has been disappointing to me.  Yes, he's quite young, but I thought the staff had seen enough of him to feel confident that he could contribute quickly, if not immediately.  He has an awful shot when it comes to form and his ability to drive and score never materialized.  Look, I don't know much, but I expected more from the young man.  Sorry!

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Just now, FW_Hoosier said:

Literally every other guard we’ve had since Archie got here?

That doesn't encompass much...

First year, Robert Johnson, Devonte Green, and Josh Newkirk were who they were.

Durham has improved, but is limited by his physical deficiencies.

So pretty much Franklin and Phinisee...

And I'll give you Rob...

Your initial statement though, indicated none of them had made any progress...

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

Here's the tough part for me, I'm beginning to feel like I did at the end of Crean's last year (though I was ready for a change 2 years prior). I would never root against IU while watching the games, but at the same time as you come to conclusion that a change needs to be made then it's almost counterproductive to hope the team makes the NCAA Tournament. 

I can almost see Indiana's athletic department breathing a sign of relief as IU gets an 11 seed with an under .500 conference record, with the admin thinking, "Yes! Now we just bought ourselves another 2-3 years without having to make a decision". 

Completely agree, which ultimately shows how messed up our administration is. This is spot on!

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1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

That doesn't encompass much...

First year, Robert Johnson, Devonte Green, and Josh Newkirk were who they were.

Durham has improved, but is limited by his physical deficiencies.

So pretty much Franklin and Phinisee...

And I'll give you Rob...

Your initial statement though, indicated none of them had made any progress...

Guards since Archie got here: Johnson, Newkirk, Green, McRoberts, Jones, Durham, Langford, Phinisee, Anderson, Franklin, Leal, Galloway, Lander.

Johnson and Newkirk were only there his first year, and they continued to suck as they had under Crean.  McBob never amounted to much, mostly because of lack of talent and injury.  Archie ran Jones and Anderson off the team.  Green, Durham, and Phinisee never developed into dependable guards.  Langford was Langford, he was going to average 15 ppg regardless of where he went.  Franklin has improved.  Too early to say for the current freshmen, but Lander has been extremely underwhelming, and the other two haven’t improved much from the beginning of the season to now, mostly because Archie refuses to give them much playing time (and no, it’s not unreasonable to expect that players should improve in-season).

 

 

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1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

Understand your concerns, but Lander's court vision is special from what I've seen (and you acknowledged that).

Let's see how hard he works this summer...

Rob I'm just stumped by...love his one the ball D, but his shot is completely out of whack...I'm hoping he can figure that out...

For Landers sake I hope they have a complete off season workouts.  He needs to get in the gym and work on every aspect of his game especially shooting.  Someone has to work with him on getting squared up to the basket when he shoots and not having his fet going sideways.

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I think people saying almost anything positive about Lander right now are doing what i am, just hoping so much that he'll be what we expect next year.  i do still hold out hope that will be te case and actually think it's still a good possibility.  i just don't even see how we can say he is a great passer or has great court vision at this point.  he really has not looked good.  

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2 hours ago, rico said:

This thread is sooooo much better than the "Fire Archie" one...

I was hoping that everyone would read the link that was attached, written by Tom Brew. The article is about spot on. Sorry if you didn’t read it, and assumed their wasn’t any new content. 

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50 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

I think people saying almost anything positive about Lander right now are doing what i am, just hoping so much that he'll be what we expect next year.  i do still hold out hope that will be te case and actually think it's still a good possibility.  i just don't even see how we can say he is a great passer or has great court vision at this point.  he really has not looked good.  

I am disappointed with Lander thus far.  But maybe my expectations were too high.

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3 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Franklin?

Franklin went and trained with someone not associated with IU basketball during the off-season. Can’t say his development is because of Archie. He put in tremendous work and honestly the rest of the team need to go to the same talent developer Franklin did after the season. 

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