Potential replacement coaches

[NVFalcons12]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

What makes you think all of those coaches are clean?

Just a few examples:

Dana Altman: Literally coaches "Nike U"

Scott Drew: His staff threatened to deport Hanner Perea

Rick Barnes: How in the world did he recruit Kevin Durant, who is from Maryland, away from every school in between Maryland and Texas?

Andy Enfield: Wasn't USC named in some of the federal wiretapping stuff?

That's just off the top of my head. I like Billy Donovan, but any concern that he's Rick Pitino's guy and turned a program like Florida into a powerhouse? 

I think there is a difference between being a cheater and successfully operating in the gray area. I'd say a few on your clean list are the former and many, many of the rest fall into the latter category. 

I agree with your assessment, clean in this example is relative to what you believe 😉

[Rev_AK]

Don’t want Pitino for obvious reasons, BUT, there are a couple of things I want to point out.

1) we as fans should not assign Sainthood to RMK. Proven winner. One of the all time greats. Ran a clean program. But, for those of us who were alive during his prime, we all saw his uncontrollable temper. I read Season on the Brink when I was 12, and I thought I would not want to play at IU. The chair toss, and some of the tirades, along some of the pressers, still live on in infamy, and reflect negatively on IU to this day. Human beings can be savants at something and still possess less than honorable character. Therefore, Pitino is too much for my taste, living across the river from those who venerate him, ( much like we venerate RMK) but I can see the argument that he would be cheap, and very familiar with IU, and would love to go on one last ride to glory.

2) As much as I think Archie has run his course at IU, he has not been fired yet. The silence of the AD is telling to me, and with the tournament in this state, maybe Dolson is waiting for the right moment. But, this is a very complicated situation with many moving parts. My guess is that lots of things are going on behind the scenes. It’s fun to speculate on a potential replacement, but I am starting to wonder if Dolson will be able to pull something off. For the sake of IU, and even for Miller and his family, letting him go would be best for all parties- but it’s not done yet.

[go_iu_bb]

Just now, jv1972iu said:

Could someone give me an example of the gray area?

I'm guessing cheating but not paying players. So Sampson, basically, with extra phone calls that were against the rules.

That's how I take it whenever posters talk about the grey area.

[BGleas]

Just now, jv1972iu said:

Could someone give me an example of the gray area?

I don't have specific examples, but IMO it's the difference between dropping off bags of cash at recruits door, buying million dollar homes for families, etc. vs. just knowing the NCAA rules inside and out and taking advantage of every loophole possible. 

It's goes back to the tax example in the other thread, there's a difference between tax evasion vs. instructing your accountant to take advantage of every loophole they can find to save you as much money as possible within the intent of the rules. 

IMO, IU generally goes by the letter of the law as opposed to proactively looking for all of the loopholes. 

Just my perception and opinion. 

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

Could someone give me an example of the gray area?

Maybe getting a player family a job or find away to get a players family a $500, 000 house like Zion LOL!

[Rev_AK]

3 minutes ago, Shapopojoe said:

Hmmm...some of us read Season on the Brink and had the opposite reaction...if I was worth a crap at the game, would have loved it...just like I enjoyed boot camp

Boot camp means Marine! Thank

for your service! I was Army, and hated every second of Basic Training. To each his own. But I still feel like having an uncontrollable temper is still a major problem. Especially as a more mature adult. I feel like RMK felt like he would never be challenged toward the end. I teared up like everyone else when he came back, but then was forced to watch an uninspiring effort by our team against Purdue. That being the “last straw” for me with Archie.

[IU Scott]

Just now, Rev_AK said:

Boot camp means Marine! Thank

for your service! I was Army, and hated every second of Basic Training. To each his own. But I still feel like having an uncontrollable temper is still a major problem. Especially as a more mature adult. I feel like RMK felt like he would never be challenged toward the end. I teared up like everyone else when he came back, but then was forced to watch an uninspiring effort by our team against Purdue. That being the “last straw” for me with Archie.

The thing is back in the 70's and 80's that kind of discipline was routine and no one thought anything about it.

[BGleas]

9 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Maybe getting a player family a job or find away to get a players family a $500, 000 house like Zion LOL!

I think your post there is why you always have such a hard time with this gray area conversation. You think when posters advocate for the gray area that we're advocating for blatant cheating, which isn't the case. We're advocating for finding all of the possible loopholes within the rules. 

The gray area is not buying a million dollar home for a recruits family. That is cheating. The gray area is not getting hookers for recruits in the dorm. That is cheating. 

Again, go back to the tax comparison, as to me that is a great way to describe it. I tell my accountant to be as aggressive as he possibly can to get my tax bill as low as he can, as long as I'm not ending up in jail :). I literally told him that. 

The flip side is I could just use TurboTax. I know for a fact that I would pay thousands more in taxes if I used TurboTax. 

[NCHoosier32]

9 minutes ago, Shapopojoe said:

Hmmm...some of us read Season on the Brink and had the opposite reaction...if I was worth a crap at the game, would have loved it...just like I enjoyed boot camp

i'm with ya Joe.  

[IU Scott]

Just now, BGleas said:

I think your post there is why you always have such a hard time with this gray area conversation. You think when posters advocate for the gray area that we're advocating for blatant cheating, which isn't the case. We're advocating for finding all of the possible loopholes within the rules. 

The gray area is not buying a million dollar home for a recruits family. That is cheating. The gray area is not getting hookers for recruits in the dorm. That is cheating. 

Again, go back to the tax comparison, as to me that is a great way to describe it. I tell my accountant to be as aggressive as he possible can to get my tax bill as low as he can, as long as I'm not ending up in jail :). I literally told him that. 

The flip side is I could just use TurboTax. I know for a fact that I would pay thousands more in taxes if I used TurboTax. 

So what are those loop holes and what is IU not doing that other schools are doing.  I have asked this many times but never get examples of those loopholes in the gray area.

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I think your post there is why you always have such a hard time with this gray area conversation. You think when posters advocate for the gray area that we're advocating for blatant cheating, which isn't the case. We're advocating for finding all of the possible loopholes within the rules. 

The gray area is not buying a million dollar home for a recruits family. That is cheating. The gray area is not getting hookers for recruits in the dorm. That is cheating. 

Again, go back to the tax comparison, as to me that is a great way to describe it. I tell my accountant to be as aggressive as he possibly can to get my tax bill as low as he can, as long as I'm not ending up in jail :). I literally told him that. 

The flip side is I could just use TurboTax. I know for a fact that I would pay thousands more in taxes if I used TurboTax. 

I use Turbo tax and got a refund but I go short form and don't have much to work with.

[NVFalcons12]

https://www-si-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.si.com/.amp/college/2020/10/21/college-basketball-scandal-sec-recruiting-daily-cover?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16157528458316&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fcollege%2F2020%2F10%2F21%2Fcollege-basketball-scandal-sec-recruiting-daily-cover

[BGleas]

Just now, IU Scott said:

So what are those loop holes and what is IU not doing that other schools are doing.  I have asked this many times but never get examples of those loopholes in the gray area.

Well Scott, I'm not a high major D1 coach and am not in the building, so I don't have specific examples. But according to that Rabjohn's podcast from a couple of years ago, IU's compliance department would be the equivalent of using TurboTax. 

Most of the narrative around IU as a program is that they want it squeaky clean. Not even a perception of not being compliant and that the compliance department is out to catch the program, not work with the program to navigate the rules. 

Do you think IU is a "gray area" program? 

[IU Scott]

Just now, BGleas said:

Well Scott, I'm not a high major D1 coach and am not in the building, so I don't have specific examples. But according to that Rabjohn's podcast from a couple of years ago, IU's compliance department would be the equivalent of using TurboTax. 

Most of the narrative around IU as a program is that they want it squeaky clean. Not even a perception of not being compliant and that the compliance department is out to catch the program, not work with the program to navigate the rules. 

Do you think IU is a "gray area" program? 

So how do we know if IU is not doing these things like others or how do we know what the others are doing.  Since no one can define what the gray area means or what these loopholes are then we have no idea is IU is doing them or not.

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I use Turbo tax and got a refund but I go short form and don't have much to work with.

It's probably a more pertinent comparison for a business owner. I have an s-corp and having an accountant is a life saver. If I just used TurboTax I would be screwed. 

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

So how do we know if IU is not doing these things like others or how do we know what the others are doing.  Since no one can define what the gray area means or what these loopholes are then we have no idea is IU is doing them or not.

That's assuming you completely ignore all of the signs in front of you. 

- 25 years of extremely inconsistent results and recruiting

- Self-reporting phone calls

- Self-reporting visiting a recruit on the wrong day

- The Rabjohns podcast where the said the compliance department is completely separate from the basketball administration and basically works to bust them as opposed to working with them to navigate the rules

- The numerous other instances of chatter around the university never wanting another Knight situation where the coach is a prominent figure

- The numerous other instances of chatter that IU's admin wants a squeaky clean program

No, I don't have memo's from the athletic department. I'm just putting pieces together from afar. 

And, if IU is really deep in the gray area, then they are royally awful at is for 20+ years that it's embarrassing. 

[IU Scott]

Just now, BGleas said:

That's assuming you completely ignore all of the signs in front of you. 

- 25 years of extremely inconsistent results and recruiting

- Self-reporting phone calls

- Self-reporting visiting a recruit on the wrong day

- The Rabjohns podcast where the said the compliance department is completely separate from the basketball administration and basically works to bust them as opposed to working with them to navigate the rules

- The numerous other instances of chatter around the university never wanting another Knight situation where the coach is a prominent figure

- The numerous other instances of chatter that IU's admin wants a squeaky clean program

No, I don't have memo's from the athletic department. I'm just putting pieces together from afar. 

Until I know what the loopholes and the gray area is how can anyone say one way or the other what we are doing.  So what is UI doing in the gray area that has made them one of the top teams in the country compared to what we are doing.

[jv1972iu]

8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It's probably a more pertinent comparison for a business owner. I have an s-corp and having an accountant is a life saver. If I just used TurboTax I would be screwed. 

I'm just asking this to help clarify this gray area discussion, ok.  Jalen Rose received new sneakers, money for a pizza...from a booster.  Is that going to fall into the gray area?  Or is the fact it's a booster make it cheating and taboo?  This happened when he was a kid in Detroit being recruited by Michigan.

[IU Scott]

Just now, jv1972iu said:

I'm just asking this to help clarify this gray area discussion, ok.  Jalen Rose received new sneakers, money for a pizza...from a booster.  Is that going to fall into the gray area?  Or is the fact it's a booster make it cheating and taboo?

To me you are either cheating or your not and until I get examples of what the gray area is I don't believe their is a gray area.

[HoosierJax]

57 minutes ago, Threedom said:

He’s going for the second one from the left 

Easy now that lady is talented and has experience..😂

[BobSaccamanno]

43 minutes ago, Hero said:

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. I never said coach Knight was a cheater. I did say he had a checkered history. He also broke some of the rules set in place for him.

as far as joining the board— I’ve lurked for years. I’m happy to do so. 

I hope you stay and participate.  Good to see you post.  

[13th&Jackson]

Think I’ll try this with my wife, “honey, I’m not cheating, I’m just operating in a grey area”

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Until I know what the loopholes and the gray area is how can anyone say one way or the other what we are doing.  So what is UI doing in the gray area that has made them one of the top teams in the country compared to what we are doing.

Have you ever studied the NCAA rulebook and had to take the test that college coaches have to take on it? I haven't, and I'm going to guess you haven't either. Until you do that you're not going to know the loopholes. 

I don't know the loopholes my accountant works around, if I did I wouldn't need him and I would be an accountant myself. 

Maybe IU is in the gray area, but clearly IU stinks at it. So, we need to hire a coach that can excel in the gray area. 

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

To me you are either cheating or your not and until I get examples of what the gray area is I don't believe their is a gray area.

Do you know the loopholes that my accountant takes advantage of?

[Hero]

7 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Think I’ll try this with my wife, “honey, I’m not cheating, I’m just operating in a grey area”

I think this is actually a good example of what @BGleas is talking about. If a married man flirts with his secretary or sends steamy messages to her some may dispute whether this is cheating or not. It’s Gray. But we can all agree that if he’s caught it won’t be pretty.