ephul Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: There's a donor who's 10 million dollars in the red right now that might disagree with you if we don't make the right hire... You wanted to keep Archie? Did you REALLY think he was going to work out after the 4 years we watched? Regardless of who we get, at least there will be a glimmer of hopeĀ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 6 minutes ago, ephul said: You wanted to keep Archie? Did you REALLY think he was going to work out after the 4 years we watched? Regardless of who we get, at least there will be a glimmer of hopeĀ Yes, I wanted to give him another year...I'm not going to cover the same ground we all went over during the last 5 or 6 games of the year... I kept hearing "it can't get any worse!" Yeah, it can...and if we make the wrong hire, it will... And if I was the donor that ponied up 10 large to run Archie off only to see something worse, I'd be a little pissed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 12 minutes ago, ephul said: Agreed, there's risk with every hire. My point is, we've Mike Davis, Kevin Sampson, Tom Crean and Archie Miller in here. They all had the resumes. And none have worked. Is it time to put it in the hands of an IU guy? If an IU guy wins, you've essentially got the program back to theĀ Bob Knight days. Everyone is happy. If they fail? It failed at the hands of the guys that made IU what it is Archie is the only one of those guys who had zero success.Ā Sampson proved you can win, and win big, without Indiana ties. His on court was exactly what we are looking for.Ā Crean and Davis have proven they're not great coaches throughout their careers, and even both of them had moderate levels of success. So yes, go get a guy like Sampson (which Beard or Muss could be) and make sure we keep it clean enough off the court. We will win, and win big. No IU guys have pedigrees in the same ballpark as those two (and many others we could hire).Ā Ā 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritzIam4IU Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) I believe Dolson said in his press conference that he wanted to modernize the brand at IU or something of the sort...if he meant this I could see that as a sign he might lean towards a Musselman. Edited March 20, 2021 by FritzIam4IU 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ephul Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Archie is the only one of those guys who had zero success.Ā Sampson proved you can win, and win big, without Indiana ties. His on court was exactly what we are looking for.Ā Crean and Davis have proven they're not great coaches throughout their careers, and even both of them had moderate levels of success. So yes, go get a guy like Sampson (which Beard or Muss could be) and make sure we keep it clean enough off the court. We will win, and win big. No IU guys have pedigrees in the same ballpark as those two (and many others we could hire).Ā Ā Go get a guy like Sampson, that keeps it clean? Yeah, that'd be great. But who is that person? You said Beard or Muss "could be". How sure are you? If they aren't, well, you're looking at continued devaluation of the IU program. Crean and Davis were average. Are we good with "moderate success"?Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Yes, I wanted to give him another year...I'm not going to cover the same ground we all went over during the last 5 or 6 games of the year... I kept hearing "it can't get any worse!" Yeah, it can...and if we make the wrong hire, it will... And if I was the donor that ponied up 10 large to run Archie off only to see something worse, I'd be a little pissed... I was fine giving Archie 5 years as well but we werenāt a tournament team under Archie. If you donāt make the tournament ever then there is no difference between 12-16 and 1-26Ā Honestly Iād rather be 1-26Ā because then I wouldnāt even bother watching at all instead of watching only to be disappointed. Bad is bad. It doesnāt get worse than bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 Beard vs Musselman. Ā To me itās like picking between Heather Locklear and Heather Thomas (did I just date myself...never mind). Beard. Ā Canāt bury the lede. Heās from Knightās coaching tree. Ā As a result,Ā not surprisingly, his teams play efficient basketball at both ends. Ā They are tough. You can rest assured that when we run onto the court in Madison, or Ann Arbor, or Columbus etc., we will have a team with a snarl thatās ready to compete.Ā This is a tough guy league andĀ we have needed that on a consistent basis. Ā Lubbock is basically in the south plains and way the heck out in the middle of nowhere. Ā Itās not easy to recruit there and win big there. Ā Heās defied all of that to be very competitive. He isĀ 8-3 in the NCAA tourney so his teams are ready to play when it matters. Ā Besides the competitiveness of his teams, what I also like is he is not willing to write off any season. Ā IU fans, who are great and a huge asset, can be talked into rebuilds or accepting down years. Ā Beard isnāt going to go along with that. Ā Heās going to change that mindset. Ā Heās going to fill any gaps with the roster so he does his best to be competitive again. Ā Mac McClung is just the latest example. Ā What a pickup he was. Ā Imagine where IU would be if we had a kid like that?Ā Ā Would BeardĀ leave Tech? I canāt answer that but he sure as heck didnāt put it to rest with the quotes in todayās paper. Ā As much self loathing as some Indiana fans have developed, we are still a huge name in basketball and Texas Tech just doesnāt have that. Ā He has the connection to Pat Knight who can talk to Dolson at will.Ā Musselman. Ā Son of a prominent coach.Ā He has an amazing pedigree, having coached in the NBA. Ā He hasĀ been an assistant with a number of top coaches going back to Chuck Daly. Ā His offense and defense both rateĀ out nicely albeit not as high as Beard. Ā But he is great with tempo. Ā So, the lede here might be that Musselman may be able to recruit better with both his NBA background and connections, and his tempo might be really attractive to recruits. Ā He seems to have a high regard for Indiana basketball so youād hope you could get him. Ā Arkansas is a decent basketball school. Ā Theyāve had a championship in the 1990s and some other good teams including with Sidney Moncrief. Ā But I would take my chances that we would have a good shot to attract him. Ā Ā I am looking forward to these two teams squaring off tomorrow. Ā I really donāt think we can go wrong. Ā They are both good. Ā 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ephul Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Yes, I wanted to give him another year...I'm not going to cover the same ground we all went over during the last 5 or 6 games of the year... I kept hearing "it can't get any worse!" Yeah, it can...and if we make the wrong hire, it will... And if I was the donor that ponied up 10 large to run Archie off only to see something worse, I'd be a little pissed... It can get worse than missing out on the tournament every year and watching no effort out of players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritzIam4IU Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said: Beard vs Musselman. Ā To me itās like picking between Heather Locklear and Heather Thomas (did I just date myself...never mind). Beard. Ā Canāt bury the lede. Heās from Knightās coaching tree. Ā As a result,Ā not surprisingly, his teams play efficient basketball at both ends. Ā They are tough. You can rest assured that when we run onto the court in Madison, or Ann Arbor, or Columbus etc., we will have a team with a snarl thatās ready to compete.Ā This is a tough guy league andĀ we have needed that on a consistent basis. Ā Lubbock is basically in the south plains and way the heck out in the middle of nowhere. Ā Itās not easy to recruit there and win big there. Ā Heās defied all of that to be very competitive. He isĀ 8-3 in the NCAA tourney so his teams are ready to play when it matters. Ā Besides the competitiveness of his teams, what I also like is he is not willing to write off any season. Ā IU fans, who are great and a huge asset, can be talked into rebuilds or accepting down years. Ā Beard isnāt going to go along with that. Ā Heās going to change that mindset. Ā Heās going to fill any gaps with the roster so he does his best to be competitive again. Ā Mac McClung is just the latest example. Ā What a pickup he was. Ā Imagine where IU would be if we had a kid like that?Ā Ā Would BeardĀ leave Tech? I canāt answer that but he sure as heck didnāt put it to rest with the quotes in todayās paper. Ā As much self loathing as some Indiana fans have developed, we are still a huge name in basketball and Texas Tech just doesnāt have that. Ā He has the connection to Pat Knight who can talk to Dolson at will.Ā Musselman. Ā Son of a prominent coach.Ā He has an amazing pedigree, having coached in the NBA. Ā He hasĀ been an assistant with a number of top coaches going back to Chuck Daly. Ā His offense and defense both rateĀ out nicely albeit not as high as Beard. Ā But he is great with tempo. Ā So, the lede here might be that Musselman may be able to recruit better with both his NBA background and connections, and his tempo might be really attractive to recruits. Ā He seems to have a high regard for Indiana basketball so youād hope you could get him. Ā Arkansas is a decent basketball school. Ā Theyāve had a championship in the 1990s and some other good teams including with Sidney Moncrief. Ā But I would take my chances that we would have a good shot to attract him. Ā Ā I am looking forward to these two teams squaring off tomorrow. Ā I really donāt think we can go wrong. Ā They are both good. Ā Nice analyzing. Who is your preference? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 minute ago, ephul said: It can get worse than missing out on the tournament every year and watching no effort out of players? I told you I'm not covering the same ground...he's gone...you got your wish... Be happy and look forward... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 Just now, ephul said: Go get a guy like Sampson, that keeps it clean? Yeah, that'd be great. But who is that person? You said Beard or Muss "could be". How sure are you? If they aren't, well, you're looking at continued devaluation of the IU program. Crean and Davis were average. Are we good with "moderate success"?Ā Well Davis would qualify by most standards as an IU guy, he was an assistant coach at IU under Knight. That would count as being an IU guy and part of the Knight coaching tree in any setting other than those clamoring for an IU guy trying to say it's never been tried.Ā There's no hire that won't fall into a "could be" category. There is never a guarantee that success translates, but with Beard and Musselman it has translated to multiple schools already so the likelihood it would to IU is higher. To answer your final question, no, we aren't good with moderate success. But that seems like best case scenario with an IU guy. Musselman and Beard can win titles at IU.Ā 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ephul Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 Just now, IUFLA said: I told you I'm not covering the same ground...he's gone...you got your wish... Be happy and look forward... That's exactly what I'm doing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritzIam4IU Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 Just now, KoB2011 said: Well Davis would qualify by most standards as an IU guy, he was an assistant coach at IU under Knight. That would count as being an IU guy and part of the Knight coaching tree in any setting other than those clamoring for an IU guy trying to say it's never been tried.Ā There's no hire that won't fall into a "could be" category. There is never a guarantee that success translates, but with Beard and Musselman it has translated to multiple schools already so the likelihood it would to IU is higher. To answer your final question, no, we aren't good with moderate success. But that seems like best case scenario with an IU guy. Musselman and Beard can win titles at IU.Ā Who is your preference among Beard and Mussleman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 Just now, FritzIam4IU said: Nice analyzing. Who is your preference? I change my mind every five minutes lol. Ā Letās see how their schemesĀ react Ā to each other tomorrow and maybe that will give us an idea. Ā I think.....if I truly just got to pick one....it would be Beard. Ā I just like the toughness, competitiveness, and attitude of his teams. Ā How about you or anyone else? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 Just now, FritzIam4IU said: Who is your preference among Beard and Mussleman? I lean slightly towards Muss, but I'd be thrilled either way.Ā I think one thing that we should bring up with both of those guys, is what they've had to say about Assembly Hall. Everyone should read what Beard said yesterday or what Musselman said a couple years ago. These guys both "get it".Ā 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritzIam4IU Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 Just now, BobSaccamanno said: I change my mind every five minutes lol. Ā Letās see how their schemesĀ react Ā to each other tomorrow and maybe that will give us an idea. Ā I think.....if I truly just got to pick one....it would be Beard. Ā I just like the toughness, competitiveness, and attitude of his teams. Ā How about you or anyone else? Haha. I love it! You sound like me and flip flopping between them both! I agree with everything you said regarding your analysis. I was leaning a long time towards Beard but I am starting to maybe lean towards Musselman. I also believe he would be the most likely to come to IU. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, FritzIam4IU said: Who is your preference among Beard and Mussleman? Mine is Beard. I worry Mussleman would use us to get back to the nba. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iucane Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said: I change my mind every five minutes lol. Ā Letās see how their schemesĀ react Ā to each other tomorrow and maybe that will give us an idea. Ā I think.....if I truly just got to pick one....it would be Beard. Ā I just like the toughness, competitiveness, and attitude of his teams. Ā How about you or anyone else? Think I would agree...probably because I think Beard is a college guy and Musselman would leave IU for the right NBA job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ephul Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: Well Davis would qualify by most standards as an IU guy, he was an assistant coach at IU under Knight. That would count as being an IU guy and part of the Knight coaching tree in any setting other than those clamoring for an IU guy trying to say it's never been tried.Ā There's no hire that won't fall into a "could be" category. There is never a guarantee that success translates, but with Beard and Musselman it has translated to multiple schools already so the likelihood it would to IU is higher. To answer your final question, no, we aren't good with moderate success. But that seems like best case scenario with an IU guy. Musselman and Beard can win titles at IU.Ā Davis was an assistant from 97-2000. Not exactly qualifying as an IU guy.Ā I'm not sure why an IU guys ceiling would be "moderate success".Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parakeet Jones Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said: Beard vs Musselman. Ā To me itās like picking between Heather Locklear and Heather Thomas (did I just date myself...never mind). Beard. Ā Canāt bury the lede. Heās from Knightās coaching tree. Ā As a result,Ā not surprisingly, his teams play efficient basketball at both ends. Ā They are tough. You can rest assured that when we run onto the court in Madison, or Ann Arbor, or Columbus etc., we will have a team with a snarl thatās ready to compete.Ā This is a tough guy league andĀ we have needed that on a consistent basis. Ā Lubbock is basically in the south plains and way the heck out in the middle of nowhere. Ā Itās not easy to recruit there and win big there. Ā Heās defied all of that to be very competitive. He isĀ 8-3 in the NCAA tourney so his teams are ready to play when it matters. Ā Besides the competitiveness of his teams, what I also like is he is not willing to write off any season. Ā IU fans, who are great and a huge asset, can be talked into rebuilds or accepting down years. Ā Beard isnāt going to go along with that. Ā Heās going to change that mindset. Ā Heās going to fill any gaps with the roster so he does his best to be competitive again. Ā Mac McClung is just the latest example. Ā What a pickup he was. Ā Imagine where IU would be if we had a kid like that?Ā Ā Would BeardĀ leave Tech? I canāt answer that but he sure as heck didnāt put it to rest with the quotes in todayās paper. Ā As much self loathing as some Indiana fans have developed, we are still a huge name in basketball and Texas Tech just doesnāt have that. Ā He has the connection to Pat Knight who can talk to Dolson at will.Ā Musselman. Ā Son of a prominent coach.Ā He has an amazing pedigree, having coached in the NBA. Ā He hasĀ been an assistant with a number of top coaches going back to Chuck Daly. Ā His offense and defense both rateĀ out nicely albeit not as high as Beard. Ā But he is great with tempo. Ā So, the lede here might be that Musselman may be able to recruit better with both his NBA background and connections, and his tempo might be really attractive to recruits. Ā He seems to have a high regard for Indiana basketball so youād hope you could get him. Ā Arkansas is a decent basketball school. Ā Theyāve had a championship in the 1990s and some other good teams including with Sidney Moncrief. Ā But I would take my chances that we would have a good shot to attract him. Ā Ā I am looking forward to these two teams squaring off tomorrow. Ā I really donāt think we can go wrong. Ā They are both good. Ā A handful of us seem to be in the camp that these are our top two. With that in mind let me pose a question. Letās say Dolson has locked in on one of these guys. Do we want that one to win tomorrow to get more exposure in a tourney run, or do we want him to lose so we can get the ball rolling? Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDB Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 37 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said: If itās Drew, he would need to repair any issues with the instate AAU guys who may still be unhappy with the Perea shenanigans. Ā It may be disqualifying unless this has all been repaired. Ā The AAU guys are more of the problem than they are good.Ā The AAU system is ruining basketball.Ā Ā 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritzIam4IU Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 Just now, Parakeet Jones said: A handful of us seem to be in the camp that these are our top two. With that in mind let me pose a question. Letās say Dolson has locked in on one of these guys. Do we want that one to win tomorrow to get more exposure in a tourney run, or do we want him to lose so we can get the ball rolling? Ā If Dolson really has locked in on one of these two as "the guy" I don't think tomorrow should matter. He needs to just let the process play out how it plays out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said: Beard vs Musselman. Ā To me itās like picking between Heather Locklear and Heather Thomas (did I just date myself...never mind). Beard. Ā Canāt bury the lede. Heās from Knightās coaching tree. Ā As a result,Ā not surprisingly, his teams play efficient basketball at both ends. Ā They are tough. You can rest assured that when we run onto the court in Madison, or Ann Arbor, or Columbus etc., we will have a team with a snarl thatās ready to compete.Ā This is a tough guy league andĀ we have needed that on a consistent basis. Ā Lubbock is basically in the south plains and way the heck out in the middle of nowhere. Ā Itās not easy to recruit there and win big there. Ā Heās defied all of that to be very competitive. He isĀ 8-3 in the NCAA tourney so his teams are ready to play when it matters. Ā Besides the competitiveness of his teams, what I also like is he is not willing to write off any season. Ā IU fans, who are great and a huge asset, can be talked into rebuilds or accepting down years. Ā Beard isnāt going to go along with that. Ā Heās going to change that mindset. Ā Heās going to fill any gaps with the roster so he does his best to be competitive again. Ā Mac McClung is just the latest example. Ā What a pickup he was. Ā Imagine where IU would be if we had a kid like that?Ā Ā Would BeardĀ leave Tech? I canāt answer that but he sure as heck didnāt put it to rest with the quotes in todayās paper. Ā As much self loathing as some Indiana fans have developed, we are still a huge name in basketball and Texas Tech just doesnāt have that. Ā He has the connection to Pat Knight who can talk to Dolson at will.Ā Musselman. Ā Son of a prominent coach.Ā He has an amazing pedigree, having coached in the NBA. Ā He hasĀ been an assistant with a number of top coaches going back to Chuck Daly. Ā His offense and defense both rateĀ out nicely albeit not as high as Beard. Ā But he is great with tempo. Ā So, the lede here might be that Musselman may be able to recruit better with both his NBA background and connections, and his tempo might be really attractive to recruits. Ā He seems to have a high regard for Indiana basketball so youād hope you could get him. Ā Arkansas is a decent basketball school. Ā Theyāve had a championship in the 1990s and some other good teams including with Sidney Moncrief. Ā But I would take my chances that we would have a good shot to attract him. Ā Ā I am looking forward to these two teams squaring off tomorrow. Ā I really donāt think we can go wrong. Ā They are both good. Ā Beard got Mcclung but Mussleman got Justin Smith. You can say both no how to bring in star talent. Hard to ignore how much better Justin Smith has played in Musslemans system. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 Just now, ephul said: Davis was an assistant from 97-2000. Not exactly qualifying as an IU guy.Ā I'm not sure why an IU guys ceiling would be "moderate success".Ā So he spent as much time here as any 4 year player prior to being named Head Coach. How exactly is that not an IU guy but Steve Alford or Dane Fife is?Ā LIke I said, the only people would way that isn't an IU guy are people who want to say we've never tried an IU guy. When you look at coaching trees, Mike Davis would absolutely without question be on Bob Knight's.Ā What have you seen from any IU guys in their career to make you think they have a ceiling higher than moderate success? Alford has been fired from both his high major jobs. Fife has a below .500 record as a HC. Smart was unsuccessful in the NBA and has no college ties. Who exactly do you think we'll hire that can do better than moderate success, and what evidence other than "IU ties" do you have to back that up?Ā 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritzIam4IU Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, dgambill said: Mine is Beard. I worry Mussleman would use us to get back to the nba. This was one of my concerns regarding Musselman as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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