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Potential replacement coaches


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2 minutes ago, BDB said:

The AAU guys are more of the problem than they are good.  The AAU system is ruining basketball.  

Exactly. Do we even want Indiana kids anymore? We land top Indiana kids and we suck. Drew has no problem recruiting. I’d take his kids over ours any day of the week. Heck if I’m Drew and I have an issue with the local AAU coaches...I get the AAU coaches replaced....problem solved. You don’t think a premier college coach couldn’t work back channels with the shoe companies etc to get an AAU coach removed?

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I find it strange that a fanbase who experienced a unexpected revelation with an inexperienced football coach is so reticent to try it in basketball...

I understand the expectations for each program is different, but right now the basketball program is in Lee Corso territory...

Time to think outside the box a little if we can't get a home run hire (and no, I don't consider Beard, Mussleman, or Drew home runs)...

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I think I’m in the Muss bus camp. Admittedly I haven’t watched many of his games I did watch it yesterday and loved his tempo and switching the defense to a press when he got down. They also played good defense. I have watched quite a few of Texas tech games I’m not sure why. I guess because ESPN plays a lot of big 12 but while beard teams play hard fantastic defense force a lot turnovers the offensive struggled to score a lot. Which surprised me his offensive rating is a high as it is. My only worry with the muss bus is if he relies sorely on transfers I’m not sure I would want that approach. Maybe for his first year but I would hope he would realize if he comes here the talent pool he has in state to recruit from. That said you can’t go wrong with either. I hope. 

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5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I find it strange that a fanbase who experienced a unexpected revelation with an inexperienced football coach is so reticent to try it in basketball...

Be specific, what are you talking about? The Wilson stuff?

5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Time to think outside the box a little if we can't get a home run hire (and no, I don't consider Beard, Mussleman, or Drew home runs)...

Why not, because you say so? They're all three very good, very accomplished coaches. 

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1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

Be specific, what are you talking about? The Wilson stuff?

Why not, because you say so? They're all three very good, very accomplished coaches. 

In current college basketball landscape those are absolutely home run hires. Beard, Drew, Mussleman, Oats would all be in the top 10% of coaches in the game.

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6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

So he spent as much time here as any 4 year player prior to being named Head Coach. How exactly is that not an IU guy but Steve Alford or Dane Fife is? 

LIke I said, the only people would way that isn't an IU guy are people who want to say we've never tried an IU guy. When you look at coaching trees, Mike Davis would absolutely without question be on Bob Knight's. 

What have you seen from any IU guys in their career to make you think they have a ceiling higher than moderate success? Alford has been fired from both his high major jobs. Fife has a below .500 record as a HC. Smart was unsuccessful in the NBA and has no college ties. Who exactly do you think we'll hire that can do better than moderate success, and what evidence other than "IU ties" do you have to back that up? 

Fife and Alford played for one of the most demanding coaches of all time. An all time great. They understand what made the program successful. They understand the traits a player needs to be good. To be successful. To succeed at IU. 

Mike Davis came here to recruit for 3 years. I wouldn't call that an "IU guy", maybe I'm wrong. And when he left, even he said IU needs "one of their own". So even he didn't consider himself an IU guy.

My point to all this is, we hired guys with great resumes. They failed. What separates these new guys from Archie?

Again, I'm not saying Beard and Archie will have similar results. I just want to know what qualities Beard has that Archie doesn't? What keeps this from being a guessing game?

And if it is a guessing game, why not let those that made IU what it is fail?

I'm done with the subject honestly. Simply saying, it's been 20 years of hiring the hot new name.

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Just now, FritzIam4IU said:

Who is your preference?

I’m torn. I can make a case for both. Beard in a lot of ways seems like the obvious choice. I’ve called him the “ don’t over think this” candidate a couple of times. On the other hand, Musselman intrigues me. NBA experience, knows how to work the transfer market, more up tempo offense, there’s a lot there to like. I could see us not picking him and looking back regretting missing our chance. Put a gun to my head and make me pick right now, I’ll say Beard. I’d be over the moon with either of them though. 

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9 minutes ago, ephul said:

Fife and Alford played for one of the most demanding coaches of all time. An all time great. They understand what made the program successful. They understand the traits a player needs to be good. To be successful. To succeed at IU. 

Mike Davis came here to recruit for 3 years. I wouldn't call that an "IU guy", maybe I'm wrong. And when he left, even he said IU needs "one of their own". So even he didn't consider himself an IU guy.

My point to all this is, we hired guys with great resumes. They failed. What separates these new guys from Archie?

Again, I'm not saying Beard and Archie will have similar results. I just want to know what qualities Beard has that Archie doesn't? What keeps this from being a guessing game?

And if it is a guessing game, why not let those that made IU what it is fail?

I'm done with the subject honestly. Simply saying, it's been 20 years of hiring the hot new name.

Fife and Alford played for a coach who couldn't adjust to modern basketball and modern society 20 years ago, so if they play to implement what didn't work 20 years ago 20 years later we are screwed. 

Dane Fife lobbied for Mike Davis. I'm not sure the Davis comment you're referring to was necessarily about former players - it might have more to do about how he and his family were treated by people of a certain mindset. That's definitely a very real problem in Indiana. 

Who did we hire that has a resume like Musselman or Beard? They've both won at multiple schools and shown a level of consistency. Who did we hire that fits that description? Probably Sampson does, but again, his issue wasn't the product on the court. 

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2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Be specific, what are you talking about? The Wilson stuff?

Why not, because you say so? They're all three very good, very accomplished coaches. 

To the first question, Tom Allen...

No, not because I say so, but I am allowed an opinion, no?

Beard had essentially the same season this year that CAM did last year...he barely finished above .500 in conference and the non-conference schedule was a joke (sans Houston, who beat them)...he struggled last year too...

One final 4 doesn't make for a home run hire...the guy before Archie found that out...

Musselman pretty much makes it known if the NBA calls, he's going...and we're not a stepping stone in my view...plus, you're basing your opinion on one year in a P6 conference with a pretty experienced squad...

Drew is probably the closest to fitting the description of "home run" with prolonged success at a school in a P6 conference and that's not considered a traditional powerhouse...but there are questions about him that concern me... particularly in the dirty recruiting poll so often cited...

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26 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I find it strange that a fanbase who experienced a unexpected revelation with an inexperienced football coach is so reticent to try it in basketball...

I understand the expectations for each program is different, but right now the basketball program is in Lee Corso territory...

Time to think outside the box a little if we can't get a home run hire (and no, I don't consider Beard, Mussleman, or Drew home runs)...

The next RMK is out there. We just need to find him. 

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2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

To the first question, Tom Allen...

No, not because I say so, but I am allowed an opinion, no?

Beard had essentially the same season this year that CAM did last year...he barely finished above .500 in conference and the non-conference schedule was a joke (sans Houston, who beat them)...he struggled last year too...

One final 4 doesn't make for a home run hire...the guy before Archie found that out...

Musselman pretty much makes it known if the NBA calls, he's going...and we're not a stepping stone in my view...plus, you're basing your opinion on one year in a P6 conference with a pretty experienced squad...

Drew is probably the closest to fitting the description of "home run" with prolonged success at a school in a P6 conference and that's not considered a traditional powerhouse...but there are questions about him that concern me... particularly in the dirty recruiting poll so often cited...

It's honestly hard to take this seriously if you're comparing this year for Beard to last year for Archie. Beard is in a great spot to make the Sweet 16 or more, Archie had a bubble team. That's a down year for Beard and the best year Archie had. 

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42 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I find it strange that a fanbase who experienced a unexpected revelation with an inexperienced football coach is so reticent to try it in basketball...

I understand the expectations for each program is different, but right now the basketball program is in Lee Corso territory...

Time to think outside the box a little if we can't get a home run hire (and no, I don't consider Beard, Mussleman, or Drew home runs)...

I don't care if we hire scooby doo anymore.  Just win.  Nobody is going to give two sh--- who the next guy is 4 years from now if we are winning.

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39 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I find it strange that a fanbase who experienced a unexpected revelation with an inexperienced football coach is so reticent to try it in basketball...

I understand the expectations for each program is different, but right now the basketball program is in Lee Corso territory...

Time to think outside the box a little if we can't get a home run hire (and no, I don't consider Beard, Mussleman, or Drew home runs)...

Pointless discussion because football didn’t have any options BUT to hope to strike gold.

This goes back to the recruiting rankings...since Oladipo was a 3 star and became great and Andrae Patterson was a 5 star semi bust, we should stop recruiting 4-5 stars and only take 3s? Of course not. That’s absurd.

yes there are 4-5 star busts and 2-3 star diamonds...but if you land 100 4-5 stars and 100 2-3 stars THATS the many more higher ranked pan out.

You Dont go looking for low level resumes in coach because there was a hire once in another program that worked out with a lower level higher.

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What’s Goodman’s problem?  He’s being extremely unprofessional.  If he’s got an issue with Mark Titus, work it out with him as a grown up.  

He may be underestimating and mis-calculating the reach of the Indiana fan base.   Why on earth would he alienate us with the result that we won’t open up his podcasts or click on his links for an article?  That’s just not smart business besides being unprofessional.  In his digs, he’s also taking shots at other coaches as collateral damage.  

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3 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

What’s Goodman’s problem?  He’s being extremely unprofessional.  If he’s got an issue with Mark Titus, work it out with him as a grown up.  

He may be underestimating and mis-calculating the reach of the Indiana fan base.   Why on earth would he alienate us with the result that we won’t open up his podcasts or click on his links for an article?  That’s just not smart business besides being unprofessional.  In his digs, he’s also taking shots at other coaches as collateral damage.  

He’s a tool...and yes committing career suicide...if you can call what he does a career.

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14 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

It's honestly hard to take this seriously if you're comparing this year for Beard to last year for Archie. Beard is in a great spot to make the Sweet 16 or more, Archie had a bubble team. That's a down year for Beard and the best year Archie had. 

How's it hard to take seriously? Beard had 2 really good years at TT...

CB.thumb.PNG.c4e03206ab2fa4fc651bbf62ec53aad5.PNG

This year he was 18-10 overall and 9-8 in conference play...Of his 9 conference wins, 5 came against the Big 12 bottom feeders, K State, Iowa State, and TCU...The other 4 were vs Oklahoma (twice), who tied with TT for 6th in the conference and Texas (twice)...He didn't touch Kansas, Baylor, Oklahoma State, or West Virginia...As I said, their non-conference schedule was a joke...1 game against a P6 school (LSU which they won)

In 2019-20 IU was 20-12 overall and 9-11 in conference with 2 wins over co-champion MSU and out of conference wins over FSU, UConn, and Notre Dame...And by all accounts, we were in...And if we won one game, we, too would have had a chance at the Sweet 16...

So yeah, I think the 2 seasons are comparable...Seriously...

And to say that a guy whose win totals at a P6 school are 18, 27, 31, 18 and 18 is a home run hire, I say...Seriously? 

;) 

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14 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

What’s Goodman’s problem?  He’s being extremely unprofessional.  If he’s got an issue with Mark Titus, work it out with him as a grown up.  

He may be underestimating and mis-calculating the reach of the Indiana fan base.   Why on earth would he alienate us with the result that we won’t open up his podcasts or click on his links for an article?  That’s just not smart business besides being unprofessional.  In his digs, he’s also taking shots at other coaches as collateral damage.  

Pretty sure he and Archie were good friends

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4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

How's it hard to take seriously? Beard had 2 really good years at TT...

CB.thumb.PNG.c4e03206ab2fa4fc651bbf62ec53aad5.PNG

This year he was 18-10 overall and 9-8 in conference play...Of his 9 conference wins, 5 came against the Big 12 bottom feeders, K State, Iowa State, and TCU...The other 4 were vs Oklahoma (twice), who tied with TT for 6th in the conference and Texas (twice)...He didn't touch Kansas, Baylor, Oklahoma State, or West Virginia...As I said, their non-conference schedule was a joke...1 game against a P6 school (LSU which they won)

In 2019-20 IU was 20-12 overall and 9-11 in conference with 2 wins over co-champion MSU and out of conference wins over FSU, UConn, and Notre Dame...And by all accounts, we were in...And if we won one game, we, too would have had a chance at the Sweet 16...

So yeah, I think the 2 seasons are comparable...Seriously...

And to say that a guy whose win totals at a P6 school are 18, 27, 31, 18 and 18 is a home run hire, I say...Seriously? 

;) 

Yeah, sorry, that's not comparable. 

After his first year at Tech, Beard went E8, Runner Up, Cancelled Tournament, and playing to go to the S16 tomorrow. He even won a game in the tournament his one year at ALR. 

Look, I like Archie and think he'll be a good coach somewhere. But at this point there is no reasonable comparison to be made. 

And way to use win totals, what a laughable argument when you, me, and everyone else knows that last two 18 win seasons are shortened seasons. Take at two seasons that he lost games to Covid and he is very likely averaging 25 wins per year over a 4 year period in a P5 conference. 

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3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

He’s a tool...and yes committing career suicide...if you can call what he does a career.

He seems to want to stick it to IU and to hope we can’t get anyone reasonably prominent.  

Let’s put it this way.  I listen to podcasts as I have a commute in a big city.  I also love college basketball.  If it’s July or August and he puts out a podcast on college hoops, I am literally his target audience.  Don’t alienate me, I’ve literally never done anything to you.  Titus called you names, not me.  Now, go from me to the rest of our fan base.  We have one of the largest fan bases and we are spread out across the country.  I mean, you’re in SW Fla and you’re not even retired!  You’re young.   The Indiana fan base should not be alienated by anyone who makes a living literally from clicks by college basketball fans.  Surely, his bosses understand business and the idiocy of taking it that way.  

One of Goodman’s themes has been “you have to be a bleeping idiot to think Stevens would leave Boston for IU.”  It’s unprofessional.  He’s a journalist not a message board poster.  He can just as easily say “all indications are that Brad is not leaving Boston under any circumstance.”  One is inflammatory and the other is professional.  Jeff would probably say, “I’m just stirring it up, not writing about children at the border.”  Fine, you are, but you can still calibrate at levels that don’t alienate one of the largest fan bases in your audience.  

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