IUCrazy2 Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 17 minutes ago, Bustout said: Do you think the BoT and Indiana University thinks that/cares? While the AD can make the case all day long, I’m just not sure the University would rush into this knowing it’ll be different next year. They probably do not care which is why we are currently in the situation we are in....again. I will double down though, every athletic program that is not men's basketball and football freeloads off those 2 programs. If the choice is between fixing the programs that pay the bills or saving a program that doesn't, you fix the bill payers. This is the equivalent of putting your oxygen mask on first and then helping the kids on an airplane. They cannot help you if you pass out. You can help them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 The buyout will not be paid by the athletic department. Buyouts are almost never paid by the school. If the school wants to have the money to fund those programs they can't afford to have a fan base that starts to not care about what's going on within the basketball program. Basketball and Football pay for almost everything and if you lose your fans you're in major trouble. If the program continues losing this is the danger that Dolson and the rest of the IU athletic department faces moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGERVOL Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 24 minutes ago, DC2345 said: The buyout will not be paid by the athletic department. Buyouts are almost never paid by the school. If the school wants to have the money to fund those programs they can't afford to have a fan base that starts to not care about what's going on within the basketball program. Basketball and Football pay for almost everything and if you lose your fans you're in major trouble. If the program continues losing this is the danger that Dolson and the rest of the IU athletic department faces moving forward. I agree 100%...but I’ve seen in many schools that they wait until it’s proven they’re losing money. And since Covid is going on they might know they’re going to lose big but might go anti her year anyway to show the public what they know is the case. Kill two birds...pay cheaper buyout AND have the public more supportive because they see the lost revenue in seats empty. The leadership decision is to avoid that entire thing before it gets that bad for the sake of the program, the fans, etc the easy way out is to let us go to crap so you don’t have to catch as much flake for doing what’s then obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGERVOL Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 It’ll be awful if they bring Archie back. One reason is that IF we were ti have a reasonably good year...finish 4th in the Big Ten, make tourney and win 1-2 games, we still are likely to have a couple of skids during the season, some very poor games where we can shoot for crap or play poorly win or lose...and the base will get inflamed immediately. That will be bad for the players, coaches, fans, university, and will likely make that skid go longer...omg just don't go there... But wouldn't doubt we will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 Buyout is majorly overblown. It is a 3.45mil difference between firing him now and waiting until next year not including any offset. People keep forgetting that we will owe him 3.45mil next year whether he is the coach or not when they talk about 10.35mil now vs. 3.45mil later. He would only have to make 1.15mil/yr in 2022-2024 at a new job to have the buyout not exist. The true/big cost of the change would be new coach's salary and potential buyout paid to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGERVOL Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, cybergates said: Buyout is majorly overblown. It is a 3.45mil difference between firing him now and waiting until next year not including any offset. People keep forgetting that we will owe him 3.45mil next year whether he is the coach or not when they talk about 10.35mil now vs. 3.45mil later. I agree with you, but the point myself and others have made is public perception not “can it be done.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said: It’ll be awful if they bring Archie back. One reason is that IF we were ti have a reasonably good year...finish 4th in the Big Ten, make tourney and win 1-2 games, we still are likely to have a couple of skids during the season, some very poor games where we can shoot for crap or play poorly win or lose...and the base will get inflamed immediately. That will be bad for the players, coaches, fans, university, and will likely make that skid go longer...omg just don't go there... But wouldn't doubt we will. I'll also add that it's going to be darn near impossible for CAM to recruit with the cloud over his head. Maybe it will be a little different if/when that transfer rule passes, but he's between a rock and a hard place. Bailing out a canoe with one hole in it is hard enough (recruits backing away due to the uncertainty of his employment) and then another hole (players possibly transferring out of the program) then we have ourselves a problem. on top of that, you are creating an unintended and possible bigger challenge for the replacement coach. This could come to fruition if he gets another year; it's a scenario those in power should be considering. If Dolson truly believes Archie can turn it around then fine. But waiting a year simply as strategy to delay could hurt in the long run. I know, I know......money will probably be the main factor. We sure are up Schitt's Creek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 Just now, BADGERVOL said: I agree with you, but the point myself and others have made is public perception not “can it be done.” Agreed. Part of the problem with that is public perception is largely based on misinformation/misunderstanding and just being told over and over that the buyout is 10 and a half million dollars which isn't even close to true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Ballin Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 Whatever Dolson decides to do, it needs to be swift and impactful. The worst thing that can happen is Dolson not doing anything. I think he has two options at this point because the ENTIRE college basketball universe knows there is fuse lit under CAM's seat that is guna go off like a box from ACME real soon and get CAM's seat red hot. Dolson can either 1) Let CAM go and reset this Groundhog day over again. Or B) Give CAM an extention showing that he has faith and showing recruits that the coach they commit to playing for will still be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 Watching podcast of Indiana Sports Beat and they are interviewing Mike Decoursey. Decoursey is strongly disagreeing that Archie should be fired and kind of going back and forth with the podcasters. He said it wouldn't look good to future candidates that you have now fired 5 coaches in a row. He stated the lack of real good candidates this time compared to last year and shouldn't just fire a coach without a good candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, 3Ballin said: Whatever Dolson decides to do, it needs to be swift and impactful. The worst thing that can happen is Dolson not doing anything. I think he has two options at this point because the ENTIRE college basketball universe knows there is fuse lit under CAM's seat that is guna go off like a box from ACME real soon and get CAM's seat red hot. Dolson can either 1) Let CAM go and reset this Groundhog day over again. Or B) Give CAM an extention showing that he has faith and showing recruits that the coach they commit to playing for will still be here. There is absolutely no way he can extend him right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustout Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, cybergates said: Agreed. Part of the problem with that is public perception is largely based on misinformation/misunderstanding and just being told over and over that the buyout is 10 and a half million dollars which isn't even close to true. I think it’s also money AT ALL being spent on b-ball when two (or more) other sports are hanging on by a thread. I understand the argument that you should feed the two sports that generate all the revenue. I just don’t think the University will go for it and would prefer any additional money be spent on saving the programs that need it so it’s equal opportunity and more opportunities for more kids - not just funneled at hoops. Not saying I agree with the logic, but I think that’s the predicament Dolson is in with IU during/post-COVID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustout Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: There is absolutely no way he can extend him right now. Yeah. I think next year is Judgment Day and no decision is made on his contract until next March (hopefully April after IU makes Final 4 😉) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bustout said: I think it’s also money AT ALL being spent on b-ball when two (or more) other sports are hanging on by a thread. I understand the argument that you should feed the two sports that generate all the revenue. I just don’t think the University will go for it and would prefer any additional money be spent on saving the programs that need it so it’s equal opportunity and more opportunities for more kids - not just funneled at hoops. Not saying I agree with the logic, but I think that’s the predicament Dolson is in with IU during/post-COVID There is a potential that IU wouldn't spend any money at all if Archie gets a job quick enough paying at least 1.15mil/yr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Ballin Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said: There is absolutely no way he can extend him right now. It wouldnt be the dumbest thing IU has ever done. 🤷♂️ But even tho there are 3(?) years left on CAM's contract, he is essentially a lame duck coach as it sits right now. If there isnt anyone out there Dolson wants/can get that is an upgrade, why not extend him a year or two? Keep the guarenteed money on the contract to a minimum and if he still isnt getting it done, cut ties next year or the year after (if IU hasnt been burnt to the ground by then). I still think the worst thing the powers that be can do is nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustout Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, cybergates said: There is a potential that IU wouldn't spend any money at all if Archie gets a job quick enough paying at least 1.15mil/yr. I’m assuming Dolson would have to make sure the other 23 or so sports have everything they need financially to do this then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustout Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, cybergates said: There is a potential that IU wouldn't spend any money at all if Archie gets a job quick enough paying at least 1.15mil/yr. If it is/will be this easy - then maybe he has a lot higher chance of being fired than I imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippopotamo Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 Personally I think the writing’s on the wall to keep Archie for another year. I just don’t see the administration moving on this year. If next year is bad I would absolutely expect them to move on after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, Bustout said: I’m assuming Dolson would have to make sure the other 23 or so sports have everything they need financially to do this then. If they fired him now (at the 100% buyout rate) they would owe him the same 287,500/month he gets paid now, it just would be for doing nothing instead of being the coach. Zero impact to the cash flow of the athletic department until a new coach is hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVFalcons12 Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 2 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said: This says all one needs to know about Tony Bennett and his motivation: Tony Bennett is at peace. He remains fiercely competitive and committed to his program, but he’s not driven by financial reward. “I have more than I need,” Bennett, the Dean and Markel Families Men’s Basketball Head Coach, said. “I’m blessed beyond what I deserve.” In the aftermath of the national championship, athletics director Carla Williams, with UVA President Jim Ryan’s blessing, met with Bennett to discuss revisions to his contract that would have included a substantial raise. Bennett discussed the offer with his wife, Laurel. Then he declined the raise. “This just does not happen in our industry,” Williams said. Bennett asked Williams to focus instead on additional compensation for his staff and improvements that would benefit his program. He extended his contract another year and now has seven years remaining on his deal. “Laurel and I are in a great spot, and in the past I’ve had increases in my contract,” Bennett said. “We just feel a great peace about where we’re at, all that’s taken place, and how we feel about this athletic department and this community and this school. I love being at UVA. “President Ryan and Carla were very gracious in what they offered to me as a potential contract, but I have a very good contract. I have more than enough, and if there are ways that this can help out the athletic department, the other programs and coaches, by not tying up so much [in men’s basketball], that’s my desire.” I fully support what we’re trying to do,” Bennett said. “I see the big picture.” Those are not empty words. The Bennetts have pledged $500,000 toward a career-development program that’s been launched for current and former UVA men’s basketball players. https://news.virginia.edu/content/tony-bennett-declined-raise-then-he-and-his-wife-pledged-500k-career-program He's just a great human being!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JugRox Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 49 minutes ago, cybergates said: Buyout is majorly overblown. It is a 3.45mil difference between firing him now and waiting until next year not including any offset. People keep forgetting that we will owe him 3.45mil next year whether he is the coach or not when they talk about 10.35mil now vs. 3.45mil later. He would only have to make 1.15mil/yr in 2022-2024 at a new job to have the buyout not exist. The true/big cost of the change would be new coach's salary and potential buyout paid to get him. https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-basketball-the-real-cost-of-archie-millers-buyout-would-be-tied-to-his-next-job/ Based on our review of the terms of Archie Miller’s contract, he is entitled to a roughly $10.35 million buyout if he is fired at the end of the 2020-21 season. That is a large number that you have probably seen in the headlines recently. If Indiana were to fire Miller after the 2021-22 season, the buyout figure can drop to approximately $3.475 million both because he would have just two years left on his contract, and the buyout clause only requires that IU pay Miller 50 percent of his total compensation still due under the contract if he is terminated without cause after March 31, 2022. The Difference is $10.35 million - $3.475 million = $6.875 million Just a FYI... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustout Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, cybergates said: If they fired him now (at the 100% buyout rate) they would owe him the same 287,500/month he gets paid now, it just would be for doing nothing instead of being the coach. Zero impact to the cash flow of the athletic department until a new coach is hired. So does the question become - if they pay him $287k/month plus around the same for a new coach .... how long do they have the Archie expense and could other sports use that money instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unexpectedflash Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 39 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Watching podcast of Indiana Sports Beat and they are interviewing Mike Decoursey. Decoursey is strongly disagreeing that Archie should be fired and kind of going back and forth with the podcasters. He said it wouldn't look good to future candidates that you have now fired 5 coaches in a row. He stated the lack of real good candidates this time compared to last year and shouldn't just fire a coach without a good candidate. I get frustrated when people say this. Crean got 9 years. Sampson was fired for cheating and all the other things going on. Davis resigned and has even admitted that he wasn't ready at the time to be a coach at a big school. I'm confused what all these outside observers expected from us and how much more patient we should be. If Archie gets fired it's because he has not been able to win enough. Four years should be enough time for a good coach to show they're on the right trajectory which it doesn't look like is the case right now for Archie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, JugRox said: https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-basketball-the-real-cost-of-archie-millers-buyout-would-be-tied-to-his-next-job/ Based on our review of the terms of Archie Miller’s contract, he is entitled to a roughly $10.35 million buyout if he is fired at the end of the 2020-21 season. That is a large number that you have probably seen in the headlines recently. If Indiana were to fire Miller after the 2021-22 season, the buyout figure can drop to approximately $3.475 million both because he would have just two years left on his contract, and the buyout clause only requires that IU pay Miller 50 percent of his total compensation still due under the contract if he is terminated without cause after March 31, 2022. The Difference is $10.35 million - $3.475 million = $6.875 million Just a FYI... I might be missing something but if they keep him they pay his salary next year as well. So his salary plus the 3.475 million from the 10.35 would be the true amount. Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, unexpectedflash said: I get frustrated when people say this. Crean got 9 years. Sampson was fired for cheating and all the other things going on. Davis resigned and has even admitted that he wasn't ready at the time to be a coach at a big school. I'm confused what all these outside observers expected from us and how much more patient we should be. If Archie gets fired it's because he has not been able to win enough. Four years should be enough time for a good coach to show they're on the right trajectory which it doesn't look like is the case right now for Archie. I some what agree with you but maybe people from the outside can see things more clearly than we can. I do agree the more changes we make the harder it will get a good candidate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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