BGleas Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: The thing I haven't reconciled yet is whether Brunk is coming back because TJD is coming back (they're good friends and play pretty well together...and they could have a special year) or because TJD is not coming back and Joey knows we need the depth... Or it's completely unrelated to TJD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 17 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Vonleh was a better shooter, had a better handle, was bigger, and was a better comfortably better rebounder. I saw you mention in another post that TJDs scoring got a lot better this year, but that is strictly because he has an astronomical usage. His efficiency went down. Looking strictly at conference play, Noah beat him in TS%, TRB% (enough of a difference to go from good to elite), nearly doubled him in BLK%. The only edge you can give TJD anywhere in their two games is he is a better passer and doesn't turn it over as much, but honestly, that's not exactly a strength for TJD. Are all of these comparisons looking at Vonleh’s freshman year and TJD’s sophomore year? Looking at their freshman year numbers, TJD had a much higher block percentage overall (7.3 to 5.4), and just looking at conference play, Vonleh barely edged him out (6.4 to 6.2). To be honest, I don’t know how valuable TRB% is compared to raw numbers, and they had basically the same playing time as freshmen, when TJD averaged more offensive rebounds per game (3.0 to 2.4) and only slightly fewer total rebounds (9.0 to 8.4). Maybe Vonleh was a slightly better rebounder, but not much. As freshmen, Vonleh barely edged out TJD in overall TS%, .604 to .600, and TJD averaged more than two more ppg than Vonleh. TJD is listed at 6’9/245, and Vonleh was listed at 6’10/240. TJD’s efficiency numbers have definitely gone way down as his usage has gone way up this season. And Vonleh obviously showed a better jump shot compared to TJD’s non-existent jumper, and maybe a slightly better handle. But I still maintain they were very similar players in terms of talent and impact, especially just looking at their freshmen years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Are all of these comparisons looking at Vonleh’s freshman year and TJD’s sophomore year? Looking at their freshman year numbers, TJD had a much higher block percentage overall (7.3 to 5.4), and just looking at conference play, Vonleh barely edged him out (6.4 to 6.2). To be honest, I don’t know how valuable TRB% is compared to raw numbers, and they had basically the same playing time as freshmen, when TJD averaged more offensive rebounds per game (3.0 to 2.4) and only slightly fewer total rebounds (9.0 to 8.4). Maybe Vonleh was a slightly better rebounder, but not much. As freshmen, Vonleh barely edged out TJD in overall TS%, .604 to .600, and TJD averaged more than two more ppg than Vonleh. TJD is listed at 6’9/245, and Vonleh was listed at 6’10/240. TJD’s efficiency numbers have definitely gone way down as his usage has gone way up this season. And Vonleh obviously showed a better jump shot compared to TJD’s non-existent jumper, and maybe a slightly better handle. But I still maintain they were very similar players in terms of talent and impact, especially just looking at their freshmen years. There are reasons one was a lottery pick and one could realistically go undrafted. It's not just random. Vonleh can shoot with range from the 3pt line, from mid-range, etc. Vonleh is more athletic and I believe has a longer wingspan (going off memory, but I believe part of his upside was his wingspan), and Vonleh is also a much better ball handler. At times Crean would give him the ball at the top of the key to break his man down, and in situations Vonleh was capable of getting a rebound and taking off with the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Parakeet Jones said: Maybe Joey just wants one more year independent of anything else. 🤷🏻♂️ 1 hour ago, BGleas said: Or it's completely unrelated to TJD. They're good friends from everything I've read, so I would assume they've talked it over. It may not hinge on TJD at all. But I would bet that Joey has talked to CAM and probably TJD about his future plans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: They're good friends from everything I've read, so I would assume they've talked it over. It may not hinge on TJD at all. But I would bet that Joey has talked to CAM and probably TJD about his future plans... Of course they have, but that's different from basing your decision on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, BGleas said: Of course they have, but that's different from basing your decision on it. So you think that in Joey's decision TJD doesn't factor in at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: So you think that in Joey's decision TJD doesn't factor in at all? Could but I doubt it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 26 minutes ago, IUFLA said: So you think that in Joey's decision TJD doesn't factor in at all? Maybe a little, but probably not that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 3 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said: Are all of these comparisons looking at Vonleh’s freshman year and TJD’s sophomore year? Looking at their freshman year numbers, TJD had a much higher block percentage overall (7.3 to 5.4), and just looking at conference play, Vonleh barely edged him out (6.4 to 6.2). To be honest, I don’t know how valuable TRB% is compared to raw numbers, and they had basically the same playing time as freshmen, when TJD averaged more offensive rebounds per game (3.0 to 2.4) and only slightly fewer total rebounds (9.0 to 8.4). Maybe Vonleh was a slightly better rebounder, but not much. As freshmen, Vonleh barely edged out TJD in overall TS%, .604 to .600, and TJD averaged more than two more ppg than Vonleh. TJD is listed at 6’9/245, and Vonleh was listed at 6’10/240. TJD’s efficiency numbers have definitely gone way down as his usage has gone way up this season. And Vonleh obviously showed a better jump shot compared to TJD’s non-existent jumper, and maybe a slightly better handle. But I still maintain they were very similar players in terms of talent and impact, especially just looking at their freshmen years. I looked at their conference numbers, that's going to somewhat neutralize for easy OOC games. It isnt really a close call. I also don't understand why REB% wouldn't matter? Isn't a measure of how many possible rebounds you get better than just a raw total to see who is better at getting an available rebound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I looked at their conference numbers, that's going to somewhat neutralize for easy OOC games. It isnt really a close call. I also don't understand why REB% wouldn't matter? Isn't a measure of how many possible rebounds you get better than just a raw total to see who is better at getting an available rebound? You looked at the conference numbers because they provided better support for your argument than the overall numbers... we both know that’s how this works, lol. But even the advanced conference numbers don’t really support that Vonleh was much better than TJD when they were freshmen, if he was at all. TJD had a much higher PER, much higher FT rate, higher ORB%, higher AST%, and much lower TO%. Steal and block percentages were basically exactly the same. Usage percentage was about the same. TJD had much higher offensive win shares and total win shares, and defensive win shares were exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: You looked at the conference numbers because they provided better support for your argument than the overall numbers... we both know that’s how this works, lol. But even the advanced conference numbers don’t really support that Vonleh was much better than TJD when they were freshmen, if he was at all. TJD had a much higher PER, much higher FT rate, higher ORB%, higher AST%, and much lower TO%. Steal and block percentages were basically exactly the same. Usage percentage was about the same. TJD had much higher offensive win shares and total win shares, and defensive win shares were exactly the same. Okay, you're right, the guys who do it for a living are wrong. How silly of me to think a guy who was a lottery pick and a guy who may not get drafted aren't very similar in terms of skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDIUFAN Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 The only thing that counts here is TJD an his family! 1. Will he get drafted 2. would coming back one more year help him. 3. is he having fun. 4. Could next year at Indiana be special enough he would want to be part of it. 5. Goes with 2 but is there a coach head or asst. that can help develop him next year to take the next step! 6. who else is going Pro this year and next. These are the questions I think he and his family need to make! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierfan1901 Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 22 minutes ago, Hoosierfan1901 said: No doubt he will test the waters but that is different than saying he is leaving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 Just now, IU Scott said: No doubt he will test the waters but that is different than saying he is leaving Very different. I think he would be foolish to not put his name in the draft. But I think when he gets the inevitable feedback that he needs to work on several areas of his game he will come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierfan1901 Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 Just now, IU Scott said: No doubt he will test the waters but that is different than saying he is leaving I think Rothschild mentioned something about a Scout saying TJD really needs to develop a jump shot before going into the NBA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan1901 said: I think Rothschild mentioned something about a Scout saying TJD really needs to develop a jump shot before going into the NBA Well he better go to the g league this staff has had him for 2 years and have not helped him with his outside shot jmho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Cutter said: Well he better go to the g league this staff has had him for 2 years and have not helped him with his outside shot jmho You also have to put some of the blame on the player for not developing. It is up to him to go to the gym every day to work on it during his off time and in the summers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUfaninIllinois Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 24 minutes ago, IU Scott said: You also have to put some of the blame on the player for not developing. It is up to him to go to the gym every day to work on it during his off time and in the summers You are spot on... in 95% of Anti Cam/coaching staff haters on here they constantly blame the coaching staff instead of blaming the coaching staff AND the player... Michael Jordan didn’t become Who he was because the staff at UNC changed him from a guy who got cut from his high school team to a guy who became the greatest player in history. Chef Bobby Flay didn’t become a popular TV chef and An Iron Chef because his mentor developed him into that. It always takes two to tango. Everyone on this team is responsible for their own actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H00sier Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 18 minutes ago, IUfaninIllinois said: You are spot on... in 95% of Anti Cam/coaching staff haters on here they constantly blame the coaching staff instead of blaming the coaching staff AND the player... Michael Jordan didn’t become Who he was because the staff at UNC changed him from a guy who got cut from his high school team to a guy who became the greatest player in history. Chef Bobby Flay didn’t become a popular TV chef and An Iron Chef because his mentor developed him into that. It always takes two to tango. Everyone on this team is responsible for their own actions. The modern world in a nutshell, who can I blame for not getting a cookie, forget I didn’t buy the ingredients, don’t own a stove, and no clue how to bake if I did. Being successful is hard damn work for the best of any craft-sport- job, put in the hard work and it usually shows, simple as that. Big ass note: this is not an excuse for Coach Miller, just a simple suggestion that he may not be Gandalf, I think Coach needs to get the ingredients and learn to cook, we’ve supplied a mighty fine kitchen and people are starved to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: You also have to put some of the blame on the player for not developing. It is up to him to go to the gym every day to work on it during his off time and in the summers This is true but when a kid needs motivation then that is the coaching staffs job some kids need it maybe some don’t need as much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_iu_bb Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 56 minutes ago, IUfaninIllinois said: You are spot on... in 95% of Anti Cam/coaching staff haters on here they constantly blame the coaching staff instead of blaming the coaching staff AND the player... Michael Jordan didn’t become Who he was because the staff at UNC changed him from a guy who got cut from his high school team to a guy who became the greatest player in history. Chef Bobby Flay didn’t become a popular TV chef and An Iron Chef because his mentor developed him into that. It always takes two to tango. Everyone on this team is responsible for their own actions. Then the coaching staff should've done a better job evaluating their recruits' work ethics, self-motivation, and coachability. I'd rather blame the coach making $3M+ and his assistant coaches making 6-digit salaries who were hired to put together winning basketball teams and doing everything that goes with that, including improving their players, than the amateur athletes who are basically working a full time job while going to school. Unlike said $3M+ coach who basically blames the players after every loss and seems to never take the blame himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 I am not a big fan of publicly bashing players constructive criticism is fine and being more demanding of players in games,practices, skill improvements are on the coaching staff to set expectations and make sure they are clear, attainable and being met by the players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 19 minutes ago, Cutter said: This is true but when a kid needs motivation then that is the coaching staffs job some kids need it maybe some don’t need as much I guess the problem is in recruiting if you bring in guys that have to be motivated to work on their game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 I would be surprised if TJD goes pro after this year. At this point, it's very unlikely that he will be in the first round, so the guaranteed money will not be there. With the changes likely coming, playing at IU will probably pay more than the G-League. While the extra practice time is great, I'm not sure that's all that important. He needs to develop an outside shot and learn to use his off-hand. Some coaching is needed for that, but mostly, it's just getting in the gym by yourself and practicing. Having Brunk guard you while you go right a thousand times would help too. The people implicitly criticizing for him not putting in the work seem off-base to me. We have no idea how much time the kid spend inside the gym. All we know is that it hasn't clicked for him yet, that doesn't mean that he hasn't put in the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.