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Are we too clean and sanctimonious to win in today's game?


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Is this tying our coaches hands in a sport that is, let's face it, filthy?

Is the perception among the best coaches out there that they will be under strict rules and expect to win big and that is deterring them from coming?

Are we stuck in the past with how we run our basketball program?

Is Iona a better program than Indiana now because they said 'Screw it, we want to win?

I'm not advocating that we cheat, only play the grey areas like everyone else does. Sometimes when you force yourself to play by a different set of rules, you are no longer in the same game.

Edited by Sea Turtle
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Can't beat Rutgers, so they must be cheating.

Can only split with Northwestern, so they must cheat half the time.

Purdue?  Don't even get me started.  Matt Painter could be John Calipari's twin.

Nebraska,  We can beat them, so the must be cleaner than Mr. Clean.

The answer is no.  We lose because of other reasons which are well documented in several other threads.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

No we are not and just look at  some of the past champions like Villanova and UVA who has not been brought up as cheating.  If we have to cheat to win then I rather not win championships that way.

Not cheating. Just not squeaky clean. Playing the grey area game. Willing to fist fight for recruits and to win instead of clutching our pearls at the state of the game 

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1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

Can't beat Rutgers, so they must be cheating.

Can only split with Northwestern, so they must cheat half the time.

Purdue?  Don't even get me started.  Matt Painter could be John Calipari's twin.

Nebraska,  We can beat them, so the must be cleaner than Mr. Clean.

The answer is no.  We lose because of other reasons which are well documented in several other threads.

 

 

So you think Indiana has nothing to do with it  The one guy who got hired in the big ten who didn't succeed was Archie at IU and you think it's coincidence?

Sampson and Davis are now succeeding after IU ran them off and it's coincidence?

Either Indiana is the unluckiest team at hiring coaches ever or......maybe the problem is Indiana 

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When you file taxes you look for any rule you’re not required to follow, every deduction you qualify for, etc. there are the rules and you do EXACTLY what those rules are and NOTHING more. You don’t give every penny to the government you think there’s any chance you MIGHT owe. 

the NCAA rule book is the Library of ALEXANDREA. If it’s that big and they can’t cover the thing you’re doing then you should be doing it. 

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11 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

When you file taxes you look for any rule you’re not required to follow, every deduction you qualify for, etc. there are the rules and you do EXACTLY what those rules are and NOTHING more. You don’t give every penny to the government you think there’s any chance you MIGHT owe. 

the NCAA rule book is the Library of ALEXANDREA. If it’s that big and they can’t cover the thing you’re doing then you should be doing it. 

I do my taxes on turbo tax so they find me any deductions they can find

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31 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Kelvin Sampson may operate in the grey area, but he is also a helluva basketball coach.  Give him this exact same roster and IU's not sitting home for the NCAA tournament.  

+1

Personally, I don't quite understand why some of us think we're not talented enough. We do have enough talents in our roster. IU's problem is in player development. Other BIG teams haven't filled up their rosters with all top 50 kids out of high schools either, but they have multiple kids improving significantly in sophomore and junior seasons. IU has only one in Armaan Franklin in Archie's 4 seasons at IU. I looked at Purdue's roster, and most of them are ranked lower than our players, but they improved season after season, and by the time they become juniors and seniors, they can do some serious damages to other teams. 

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It's amazing to see Arizona still wanting to keep Sean Miller after getting hit with 5 level 1 violations under Miller's watch. This is the reality in college basketball. Kansas is probably not even thinking about letting Self go. UNC and Duke are always ready to fight till the end against NCAA to keep their banners. But there's only 1 school in high major D1 that's holier than thou. It's Indiana. It's Indiana. 

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2021/3/13/22329285/arizona-wildcats-sean-miller-return-contract-ncaa-iarp-investigation-extension-basketball-rumors

I don't want us to blatantly cheat to get better players or to commit other violations, but there can be so many areas where IU admin can be creative and cooperative instead of acting like a cop. We need a coaching change real bad, but we also badly need a business-minded university president and high ranking school officials instead of a 19th century scholar and bureaucrats. 

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1 hour ago, BADGERVOL said:

When you file taxes you look for any rule you’re not required to follow, every deduction you qualify for, etc. there are the rules and you do EXACTLY what those rules are and NOTHING more. You don’t give every penny to the government you think there’s any chance you MIGHT owe. 

the NCAA rule book is the Library of ALEXANDREA. If it’s that big and they can’t cover the thing you’re doing then you should be doing it. 

Hey now, leave the IRS out of this.  Maybe I really do have 19 children and gave 2.6 million to charity last year.

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10 hours ago, BADGERVOL said:

When you file taxes you look for any rule you’re not required to follow, every deduction you qualify for, etc. there are the rules and you do EXACTLY what those rules are and NOTHING more. You don’t give every penny to the government you think there’s any chance you MIGHT owe. 

the NCAA rule book is the Library of ALEXANDREA. If it’s that big and they can’t cover the thing you’re doing then you should be doing it. 

I tell my accountant every year, "Do whatever you need to do and be aggressive as you need to be within the rules to get what I owe to be as low as possible."

I don't think IU operates that way in terms of the NCAA rules and I think a lot of the top schools that are consistently in the top 10 do operate that way. I think IU operates its program like doing your taxes on Turbo Tax, where the other top programs operate as if they have an account searching for every loophole possible. 

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58 minutes ago, Euroclydon said:

We're too small inside. In the size arms race of the B1G, IU is trying to win with 6'7, 6'8 and an occasional 6'9 who can play. Everyone else has multiple grown men 6'9 or better ready to step in and contribute. 

Who does Ohio St. got in the post?

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Who knows if/how we or any other team "plays in the gray"?

Every fanbase thinks their team is 100% clean, and their opponents think they aren't.

Very few of the current teams in the B10 have been associated with cheating in the recent past.  Heck, I'll bet a lot of rival fans believe the Romeo Langford recruitment was questionable.

Edited by Zuckerkorn
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I don't know if we're "too clean" but I get the sense of being a bit too sanctimonious. As a fanbase, we spend an inordinate amount of time looking back, rather than pushing forward. Yes, we have the history and that's great. However there needs to be an openness to new directions and an evolution of Indiana's identity. 

I'm not saying knock what the foundation is/was, but expand and embrace change for the future; hell, be a tastemaker and dictate what the future looks like. 

(We're seeing it with the football program.)

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