Fiveoutofsix Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 47 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: That's a pretty good recruiting video. Telling everyone this would be a walk off grandslam. Mike Woodson should of been hired years ago. Now with Knight back and the game changing and desire to get talent, I am serious there isnt a better candidate. The state will be locked down, great basketball will be played, the whole family will be connected strengthening the program. East coast taken care of, south taken care of. Please let it happen. There is some reasons biases against this - I for one, and those in my close network want this to happen. So for those out there saying no one does, that is wrong. And, this video is awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 22 hours ago, 5fouls said: You that big of a Justin Smith fan? Man, Justin Smith - got to give that kid credit. Seems like his teammates connect with him and he is connecting on the court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 43 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said: Telling everyone this would be a walk off grandslam. Mike Woodson should of been hired years ago. Now with Knight back and the game changing and desire to get talent, I am serious there isnt a better candidate. The state will be locked down, great basketball will be played, the whole family will be connected strengthening the program. East coast taken care of, south taken care of. Please let it happen. There is some reasons biases against this - I for one, and those in my close network want this to happen. So for those out there saying no one does, that is wrong. And, this video is awesome! I’d say your scenario of a high ceiling is possible. Certainly. However you paint a rosy picture of everything working out perfectly. I’d say he easily has the lowest ceiling. That creates a massive risk-reward problem. He’s a huge risk. He’s never coached in college and now he’s 63. If he were really committed to being a college coach he could have been an assistant at this level. He could have both learned the college game and proven himself worthy. That was Eric Musselman’s path and it is paying off for him. In the end, it’s not just learning how to recruit. Coaching Kenyon Martin and Anthony Leal is like two different galaxies. We have no idea how that would play out. With Woody, you might get a guy that can go into every metro area and command attention but also know how to pull strings with AAU coaches and high school coaches. You can delegate some of that to assistants but in basketball, you need the head coach to recruit heavily. Will he even have the energy to do it? Lot of questions with Woody although I do agree that the rosy picture you paint could happen. But he could blow up in our faces. I think most people with hesitation on Woody would say that IU can’t take a massive risk at this stage. If you land a proven, successful P5 coach, you know what you’re buying. I would still take him over Alford or Fife. Alford is a known mediocrity with a huge black mark on his record. Fife is like an abstract painting because he’s totally unproven. At this stage, I’d rather not take a huge risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said: I’d say your scenario of a high ceiling is possible. Certainly. However you paint a rosy picture of everything working out perfectly. I’d say he easily has the lowest ceiling. That creates a massive risk-reward problem. He’s a huge risk. He’s never coached in college and now he’s 63. If he were really committed to being a college coach he could have been an assistant at this level. He could have both learned the college game and proven himself worthy. That was Eric Musselman’s path and it is paying off for him. In the end, it’s not just learning how to recruit. Coaching Kenyon Martin and Anthony Leal is like two different galaxies. We have no idea how that would play out. With Woody, you might get a guy that can go into every metro area and command attention but also know how to pull strings with AAU coaches and high school coaches. You can delegate some of that to assistants but in basketball, you need the head coach to recruit heavily. Will he even have the energy to do it? Lot of questions with Woody although I do agree that the rosy picture you paint could happen. But he could blow up in our faces. I think most people with hesitation on Woody would say that IU can’t take a massive risk at this stage. If you land a proven, successful P5 coach, you know what you’re buying. Without doubt, and with IU's compliance office this could happen to any coach in the country, any. Jim Calhoun was about to take the Nortwestern job and Coach Knight told him he would be just another coach there and advised not. Rest is history. So far since Coach Knight we had arguably 3 hot names on the circuit- Sampson, Crean, Miller...and... So I agree with what you are saying and I do stand with my thoughts of he can coach. And, I am worried about the IU brand and honestly want some to root for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 hours ago, addictedtoIU said: I know....if what these NBA players said was the truth and not a lip service, then Woodson's got the characteristics and qualifications that we need and want. Maybe our hesitation is due to the fact that he's not a very famous figure in the NBA. Why isnt he famous, i wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slojoe Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 I believe Mike's daughter played volleyball for IU during the Crean era. So another connection to IU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 This seems like a push by some boosters to either appease them and the old guard, or to legitimately force him in. I think the biggest issue with a Woodson hire is his age. He's 63. Even if he killed it, he would be approaching 70 before two recruiting cycles. I'm sure he could get Calbert and a couple of others to be his assistants (would need a great recruiter)but this feels like an inside job whether it's a smokescreen or not. Would not be an exciting hire at all and Dolson etc. would have to show immediate improvement; he's not getting 4 years to see how things are going type of thing with a then 67 year old head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 no no no. the IU guy just because he is an IU guy scares the crap out of me. that said, if it is one of them, i guess i'd take Fife. ugh. please no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronkonagurski Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: Sorry my Magic 8 ball says all signs point to yes. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaloisGroupe Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 It is not the popular choice, but the more I investigate the more I can get excited about this as a potential hire. Woodson might be EXACTLY what IU needs right now. I really do not get the "if he was not from IU we would not be looking at him" argument. True, so what. If Williams had not coached under Smith he would not be at UNC either. The fact is that he IS from Indiana & IU. If that was his only qualification, I would say no. But it is not, he had a decent coaching career in the NBA and is apparently good at relating to players. He will be able to teach players the skills they need to be in the NBA. What I am not clear on is why Woodson did not get more consideration in 2017. Before someone says "he is 63", he won't be here in 20 years. I do not care. We have had 4 coaches in a row who have not been here for 20 years. I want a coach that gives us the best chance to win in the next 4-5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier51 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, GaloisGroupe said: Woodson might be EXACTLY what IU needs right now. I disagree with this completely. IMO he would be a extremely underwhelming hire. He was an average NBA coach and I just don't see him doing any better in college. Fortunately I don't see Dolson hiring him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JABBATHEHOOSIER Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, GaloisGroupe said: It is not the popular choice, but the more I investigate the more I can get excited about this as a potential hire. Woodson might be EXACTLY what IU needs right now. I really do not get the "if he was not from IU we would not be looking at him" argument. True, so what. If Williams had not coached under Smith he would not be at UNC either. The fact is that he IS from Indiana & IU. If that was his only qualification, I would say no. But it is not, he had a decent coaching career in the NBA and is apparently good at relating to players. He will be able to teach players the skills they need to be in the NBA. What I am not clear on is why Woodson did not get more consideration in 2017. Before someone says "he is 63", he won't be here in 20 years. I do not care. We have had 4 coaches in a row who have not been here for 20 years. I want a coach that gives us the best chance to win in the next 4-5 years. I actually agree with this. IU could certainly do worse. And the more I think about him, the more I like him. The unknown is the recruiting part, but that's where you can add a seasoned veteran recruiter to the staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, GaloisGroupe said: It is not the popular choice, but the more I investigate the more I can get excited about this as a potential hire. Woodson might be EXACTLY what IU needs right now. I really do not get the "if he was not from IU we would not be looking at him" argument. True, so what. If Williams had not coached under Smith he would not be at UNC either. The fact is that he IS from Indiana & IU. If that was his only qualification, I would say no. But it is not, he had a decent coaching career in the NBA and is apparently good at relating to players. He will be able to teach players the skills they need to be in the NBA. What I am not clear on is why Woodson did not get more consideration in 2017. Before someone says "he is 63", he won't be here in 20 years. I do not care. We have had 4 coaches in a row who have not been here for 20 years. I want a coach that gives us the best chance to win in the next 4-5 years. Williams was VERY successful at Kansas before UNC. If Woodson were very successful at another big college program, I'd be all for him! However...no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaloisGroupe Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 Just now, JABBATHEHOOSIER said: I actually agree with this. IU could certainly do worse. And the more I think about him, the more I like him. The unknown is the recruiting part, but that's where you can add a seasoned veteran recruiter to the staff. Exactly, the key will be to surround him with excellent assistants who know college basketball and recruiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaloisGroupe Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 Just now, NCHoosier32 said: Williams was VERY successful at Kansas before UNC. If Woodson were very successful at another big college program, I'd be all for him! However...no. My point is that UNC maintained a cultural identity and used it to get the best coach available. Respect is a two-way street. If we do not respect the former players/assistants, we will not have a pool of candidates to bring in for the next hire (be it 5, 10, or 20 years). We need to reestablish what IU basketball means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 Just now, GaloisGroupe said: My point is that UNC maintained a cultural identity and used it to get the best coach available. Respect is a two-way street. If we do not respect the former players/assistants, we will not have a pool of candidates to bring in for the next hire (be it 5, 10, or 20 years). We need to reestablish what IU basketball means. i know there are many different perspectives on this, and i can respect that. my points are - we just don't have an IU guy who is an established college coach. if we did, i'd be all for it. we just really don't. Fife could eventually be good, but a huge risk. Alford would be average Woodson has never coached college bball and he is 63 or whatever. Calbert has never even been a #1 assistant. Lewis no experience. in addition, i'm trying to figure out what difference it makes if we do get an IU guy. would they just tell the players about the good old days? bring back the culture/reestablish IU bball, sounds great, but i don't see why a good coach who is not an IU guy can't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier51 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 Also just think how it would be if these IU guys were as bad as Archie was, try firing them in 4 or 5 years. It wouldn't go over very well I would imagine. The money might be a lot harder to raise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: Williams was VERY successful at Kansas before UNC. If Woodson were very successful at another big college program, I'd be all for him! However...no. Where was Bill Guthridge successful as a head coach before HE took over for Dean Smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaloisGroupe Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: i know there are many different perspectives on this, and i can respect that. my points are - we just don't have an IU guy who is an established college coach. if we did, i'd be all for it. we just really don't. Fife could eventually be good, but a huge risk. Alford would be average Woodson has never coached college bball and he is 63 or whatever. Calbert has never even been a #1 assistant. Lewis no experience. in addition, i'm trying to figure out what difference it makes if we do get an IU guy. would they just tell the players about the good old days? bring back the culture/reestablish IU bball, sounds great, but i don't see why a good coach who is not an IU guy can't do that. We cannot on one hand be upset that Stevens does not want to leave the Celtics to return to Indiana and on the other not respect someone from Indiana who is certainly qualified to coach at the collegiate level (whether a sure-fire hire or not, I do not know). Either Indiana basketball means something special or it doesn't. For me it does. So without the Indiana and IU connections, I would not be in a Woodson camp. But they are there and I think given his qualifications, those connections pushes toward the top of my list. As a post scriptum: Woodson was before my time and if it were not for this hiring cycle, I would not know who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 I don't get the spite for Woodson. Dolson said he was looking for a ceo. 30 years around the nba, his connections would be far and wide. He's known for player development right? Would that not be a top selling point on the recruiting trail? That he's literally been developing nba guys for 25 years? What are we talking about? If an established successful college coach wants it great, but we could do a hell of a lot worse than a very connected Hoosier legend for the next 10 years along with a stocked bench of assistants and trainers he could assemble. Come on. How does that not sound exciting. I'm 39 FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Where was Bill Gutheridge successful as a head coach before HE took over for Dean Smith? good point! and how did Guthridge work out? and you spelled his name wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 44 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: I don't get the spite for Woodson. Dolson said he was looking for a ceo. 30 years around the nba, his connections would be far and wide. He's known for player development right? Would that not be a top selling point on the recruiting trail? That he's literally been developing nba guys for 25 years? What are we talking about? If an established successful college coach wants it great, but we could do a hell of a lot worse than a very connected Hoosier legend for the next 10 years along with a stocked bench of assistants and trainers he could assemble. Come on. How does that not sound exciting. I'm 39 FYI. As I tried to demonstrate yesterday, he improved a woeful Hawks team from 13 wins his rookie season, to 53 wins by the time he left...His last season with the Knicks, he won 37 games, which might seem low until you realize that only twice in the previous 10 years did they reach that win total (and one of those was under Woodson 53, which was an 18 year franchise high) and in the 7 years since they've reached that total once... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: good point! and how did Guthridge work out? and you spelled his name wrong. He went to 2 final 4s in 3 years...Apparently you didn't know that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 Another thought on Woodson... if we're hiring him, it should be soon if he's the guy we want. I am hoping the fact that we have not yet, he is not the guy we really want. So if it goes much longer and we do in fact hire him, it would seem he was pretty far down our list and would be pretty disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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