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Wisconsin Post Game Thread


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1 minute ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Is Archie not giving this team enough freedom on offense to allow them to play well?  It seems like they are incredibly hesitant on the court and scared to shoot. I thought Dakich’s observation, that three different players got the ball on one possession and none of them even looked at the rim, was telling.  Is this what Archie is instilling in them?

Or look at a player like Green.  He played with some fire and swagger last year, and showed flashes of being a good shooter.  He just looks broken on the floor right now.  No confidence, no energy, his shot is busted.  I know we have a weak roster with incredibly soft upperclassmen, but this team is really underachieving, more than I thought it would.

Not coach's fault at all. You are making excuses when none are warranted.

 

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2 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Is Archie not giving this team enough freedom on offense to allow them to play well?  It seems like they are incredibly hesitant on the court and scared to shoot. I thought Dakich’s observation, that three different players got the ball on one possession and none of them even looked at the rim, was telling.  Is this what Archie is instilling in them?

Or look at a player like Green.  He played with some fire and swagger last year, and showed flashes of being a good shooter.  He just looks broken on the floor right now.  No confidence, no energy, his shot is busted.  I know we have a weak roster with incredibly soft upperclassmen, but this team is really underachieving, more than I thought it would.

I think Archie's coaching style requires on the court leadership. He's like Knight in that regard.  Knight was more likely to tear down confidence in a player than instill confidence, and it appears Archie has the same style.  Knight's best teams had Buckner, Thomas, Alford, and Bailey, all who were naturally take charge type guys.  

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Just now, FW_Hoosier said:

Is Archie not giving this team enough freedom on offense to allow them to play well?  It seems like they are incredibly hesitant on the court and scared to shoot. I thought Dakich’s observation, that three different players got the ball on one possession and none of them even looked at the rim, was telling.  Is this what Archie is instilling in them?

Or look at a player like Green.  He played with some fire and swagger last year, and showed flashes of being a good shooter.  He just looks broken on the floor right now.  No confidence, no energy, his shot is busted.  I know we have a weak roster with incredibly soft upperclassmen, but this team is really underachieving, more than I thought it would.

A very wise man said something just like that a few posts earlier.....😎

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6 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergaard said:

Not coach's fault at all. You are making excuses when none are warranted.

 

Not trying to make excuses at all, for players or coaches.  But I don’t see how Archie bears zero responsibility for this kind of play.  Other coaches have inherited rosters that were just as bad as ours, or worse, and looked better than this.  

I’m really just speculating, I have no idea if Archie is doing anything wrong.  He’s forgotten more about basketball than I will ever know.  But it’s apparent that he hasn’t been able to get this team to execute his system successfully, for whatever reason.

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5 minutes ago, madmax said:

I can't wait to have Phinisee on this team. I really think he would be an upgrade over Josh Newkirk day 1.

McCutcheon is 60-9 the last 2.5 years with Phinisee running the point.

New Albany is 60-6 in the same time period with Romeo.

No one should underestimate the wining culture those guys possess.  In my mind, being a winner is significantly more important than simply having talent.

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1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

McCutcheon is 60-9 the last 2.5 years with Phinisee running the point.

New Albany is 60-6 in the same time period with Romeo.

No one should underestimate the wining culture those guys possess.  In my mind, being a winner is significantly more important than simply having talent.

And in the case of both of these guys they have won a lot and they are supremely talented. I still am blown away by Phinisee's ranking-I just don't get how he can be rated as low as he is.

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5 minutes ago, addictedtoIU said:

Exactly what I'm thinking. Why would he want to be a part of a rebuilding project if he's only gonna be in college for 1-2 years?

Archie has to convince him that it is not a long-term rebuild.  Sell him on the concept that class he's coming in with can contend for a Final Four berth by the end of his Sophomore year.

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1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

Archie has to convince him that it is not a long-term rebuild.  Sell him on the concept that class he's coming in with can contend for a Final Four berth by the end of his Sophomore year.

In order for that to happen I would think Archie would need a committ from TJD or another big, because the only final four Davis is taking a team to is at the local YMCA

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1 hour ago, milehiiu said:

So you are saying..... help is on the way ?  Trying to figure out where I have heard that before.   LOL

You've followed Davis for a long time and he's obviously not playing the way most of thought he would. Something must be going on that we don't know about. I don't believe for a minute that he doesn't care so what's your take on this?

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39 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Archie has to convince him that it is not a long-term rebuild.  Sell him on the concept that class he's coming in with can contend for a Final Four berth by the end of his Sophomore year.

Yes that's the only chance Archie got, which might work if Langfords are pro IU family. Assuming they're not wearing crimson colored glasses, KU seems to be a safe bet logically. 

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1 hour ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

If it were possible, I’d be totally fine only bringing back Morgan and the current freshman next year. 

It is possible. You're only talking about two guys leaving. If Davis and Green develop and okay to their potential, I want them. If they keep doing this I do not. 

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I'll just say this.  If I'm an IU player I think I'd refuse to play in the Kohl Center. 20 years and it is the same story.  Our best player will be in foul trouble starting in the 1st half and then throughout the game,  Then the Badgers will shoot 15-30 more free throws than we will.  It's a GD broken record.  Somebody posted it as a joke yesterday, but its the truth.  I'd quit the game too.  Happ played 32 miinutes and had one foul, all while throwing more forearm shivers than I saw in the WWE heyday.  He litterally pushes off with his off arm EVERY time he drives the basket, and it's called..............wait for it..............NEVER.  The Morgan tip at the end of the first half???  What a joke, that was a 3 point swing that would have been a big momentum boost for us.  It's ridiculous. I don't believe it's any great conspiracy, but I cannot explain it.  It's not just us either, a couple of years ago, I think it was OSU that played there and shot a whopping 0 freethrows.  ZERO attempts!  Has that ever happened before?  We can't win there, it's never going to happen.  Save your energy.  OK, rant over, besides I've to gotell my kids everything is OK and it is safe to come out from under their beds.

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10 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

It is possible. You're only talking about two guys leaving. If Davis and Green develop and okay to their potential, I want them. If they keep doing this I do not. 

I think Green is gone after this year if nothing changes.  Doesn’t look like he’s adapted very well to Archie, although I would like to see what he could do if he got as much slack as RoJo and Newkirk do.  I still think DeRon can contribute by the time he’s an upperclassman.  But right now, he’s just sophomore big who’s slow, not that athletic, and doesn’t have a big gas tank.

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IMO, Archie’s biggest mistake to this point is simply bringing all these guys back. 

A few random thoughts on the game. 

- 2nd half effort was pathetic

- I think the talent discrepancy was overblown during the broadcast. Basketball is 5-on-5, having the best player is sometimes enough. Wisconsin had 2 of the 3 best players on the court, and the refs pretty much eliminated Morgan from the game, so for much of the game Wisky had the 2 best players on the court. 

- I championed starting McRoberts, but he can’t go the entire game just dribbling around the perimeter and not even looking at the basket. He has to at least be a threat. 

- Justin Smith needs to play more. We let seniors play uninspired, mistake-riddeled basketball, Smith gets one bad foul and he comes out. Not sure why he didn’t play in the 2nd half. 

- Davis is either injured, or he’s just done caring. If it’s the former, he should sit and get healthy. If it’s the latter, he should sit until he decides he want to play basketball. 

- can we all agree, RoJo is who he is at this point? A decent player, but not good enough for what this team needs from him, or what you’d expect from a 4-year, starting guard   

- This teams talent just isn’t there. I’m a broken record, but we no length, no athleticism, and no shooting. Hard to win that way. 

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Newkirk is not a smart basketballl player.  He can’t read the flow or situations in the game, and it’s just sad watching a fifth year senior.  For example, Happ came out and Davis was in.  Think.   Get him the ball.  No, Newkirk launches an ill-advised selfish shot.   He doesn’t get it   

The dilemma is we do not have a replacement.  Green doesn’t need any excuses, as I keep reading here, as he is responsible for himself.  No reason to deflect from what is actually happening.   His decision making is a train wreck.  He’s not earning minutes.  I have liked him, but he cannot play more with the way he’s playing.  It’s no one’s fault but his own.  Man up, play smarter, and you have a great opportunity to play.  

Rob can’t shoot and he’s always been miserable seeing the floor.  He’s had four years to learn it and it’s beyond his capacity.  

McRoberts and McSwain together would be interesting from an effort standpoint, but then the team is severely scoring challenged.  I’d have one of them in there at all times.  

That was a really bad Wisconsin team out there.  You may have seen two bottom feeders duking it out.  

Those jumping on Archie are not being remotely realistic.  You cannot make chicken salad out of chicken &$@*.  The notion that Romeo is looking at how well we play is a knee slapper.  Go watch his Dayton teams.   Anybody who understands basketball knows what we have here, and it’s not a recipe for success.  If Langford doesn’t get that, then more power to him at Kansas.  We are going to be fine.  

 

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7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

- I championed starting McRoberts, but he can’t go the entire game just dribbling around the perimeter and not even looking at the basket. He has to at least be a threat.

I'm glad he got the opportunity to start, but after tonight, I'd really rather see him come off the bench. I really like the energy he brings off the bench,  and I didn't see it as much tonight,  Besides, there is no one else on the bench that can provide that kind of spark if he is starting. 

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1 minute ago, Muddy River said:

I'm glad he got the opportunity to start, but after tonight, I'd really rather see him come off the bench. I really like the energy he brings off the bench,  and I didn't see it as much tonight,  Besides, there is no one else on the bench that can provide that kind of spark if he is starting. 

It looked like Wisconsin made sure they boxed him out and the rest of our guys stood around and watched long rebounds fall to Wisconsin. 

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2 minutes ago, Muddy River said:

I'm glad he got the opportunity to start, but after tonight, I'd really rather see him come off the bench. I really like the energy he brings off the bench,  and I didn't see it as much tonight,  Besides, there is no one else on the bench that can provide that kind of spark if he is starting. 

It was one game, and it was a game where what he does probably doesn’t stand out as much, as Wisconsin is filled similar “hustle” type guys. I think the starting lineup needs the spark just as much. 

He might be better off the bench, but this needs to be tested out more than one game. 

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10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

IMO, Archie’s biggest mistake to this point is simply bringing all these guys back. 

 

- Davis is either injured, or he’s just done caring. If it’s the former, he should sit and get healthy. If it’s the latter, he should sit until he decides he want to play basketball. 

I think we posted similar thoughts around the same time.  I didn’t mention Davis because he’s an enigma to me.  I really don’t know what to make of him.   I do think against teams with weak post defenders, he can score heavily.   But, against good competition, like with Happ tonight, he’s exhibiting a lack of motor.  Maybe he’s developing his skill level, but he could have battled a lot harder from what I saw.  When you are physically so well put together, you’d like to see a tougher attitude.   We need him to contribute every night out.  Maybe the degree of contribution won’t be 15 and 7 every night, but we need him to be a factor.  You run out of players who can do anything at all at some point.  

I have been taking the long road with Davis but that doesn’t excuse a no-show while we wait.   I don’t know how it will turn out for him.  It’s up to him.  

 

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4 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It was one game, and it was a game where what he does probably doesn’t stand out as much, as Wisconsin is filled similar “hustle” type guys. I think the starting lineup needs the spark just as much. 

He might be better off the bench, but this needs to be tested out more than one game. 

Agree and I thought he played really good defense for the most part.  I could see him really frustrate the UW players.  

 

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This may deserve its own thread, but how much better of a team could this have been if Blackmon came back? Archie would be on his case about defense, so hopefully he’d have a pulse there.  But, as a scorer, we could really use his shooting and the other ways he could score.  

I think most of us anticipated more from Rojo in picking up the slack with spreading the floor with the shot. 

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