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Transfer Portal......and LeBron James and other off season tangents.


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1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said:

No, I am not saying that.  Not going to argue your analogy either.

Done arguing about it, the guy will do what he does.  If he ends up at Indiana, great.  Good player, seems like an ok dude.  If he doesn't, whatever.  We root for whoever fills his place.

This isn't the Leave it to Beaver NCAA anymore.

No, but he is a person and the fact that you don't care about him figuring out what is best for him, only what is best for your entertainment value is honestly repulsive. 

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10 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

No, Indiana isn't a person. Mike Woodson is a person and is the one Armaan has to commit to. Indiana very well may be the preferred place Armaan wants to live his life, but if it requires being married to someone be isn't compatible with then it's a bad decision for him. 

The way you talk about these young me is really telling about you as a person. 

You know an analogy is not real right?

And I have said repeatedly that Franklin can do whatever the f he thinks is best for him.  I also think that Woodson should do whatever he feels is best for him and IU.  In my OPINION, I would not have an unlimited time for these guys to make up their minds before I start actively recruiting someone to replace them.  If talking that way makes me a big old meanie or a bad person (way to follow this board rules by the way) then so be it.

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3 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

And as young adults they should know that there are rules and regulations, and if the NCAA says you have to sit out a year then those are the rules. 

But those very well might not be the rules anymore. 

I personally am a fan of workers ability to move around as they see fit. You seem to prefer a lot of regulation. 

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3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

But those very well might not be the rules anymore. 

I personally am a fan of workers ability to move around as they see fit. You seem to prefer a lot of regulation. 

Yeah they might never change them or they might keep the free agency. It's the NCAA so you never know what they might do lol.

I do on somethings, so if you  were trying to insult me it failed.

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4 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

You know an analogy is not real right?

And I have said repeatedly that Franklin can do whatever the f he thinks is best for him.  I also think that Woodson should do whatever he feels is best for him and IU.  In my OPINION, I would not have an unlimited time for these guys to make up their minds before I start actively recruiting someone to replace them.  If talking that way makes me a big old meanie or a bad person (way to follow this board fules by the way) then so be it.

I do know it's not real, it's there to get a point across. Your point is just an absolutely absurd one that dehumanizes Armaan because he might consider playing a child's game for a different team. 

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I just wanna say that these message boards are public, and are looked at by players and their parents  more than we know. I know in the case of Franklin, his mother is very engaged in social media, and has even done some outstanding interviews on some podcasts. He seems like a good kid from a solid family, and if he goes to Illinois, does that make him a “traitor?” I am not necessarily referring to any previous posts, but also the things I am seeing on IUBB Twitter page. These are young men, and none of the   “Tough guys” that played for RMK had to deal with people going on Twitter or Instagram and criticizing everything they do. For instance, I saw a lot of outrageous stuff said about RP, and we wondered why he froze up when shooting? Parents see that, too, and if the perception is that we have a jaded fanbase that will turn on these kids, ( and I know it’s most if not all schools) why wouldn’t they encourage their kids to try something new? None of these players came to IU with the imagination of boos raining down on them on their last game of the year. I would love to see Franklin back, but he needs to do what’s best for him, and IU will move on.

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17 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Right, there already are consequences rather or not they have to sit out a year. They're young adults, they should be able to move around as they fit. 

I get what your saying and agree to it partly but then would you be ok with IU revoking the scholarship after a year because the kid didn't live up to his expectations. IU is making a commitment of 4 years to a kid. I don't think it is unreasonable if the kid wants to get out of the commitment that they sit out a year. I'm all about protecting kids but the University should have some protections as well. How much time, money, energy is spent to bring the kid in. You forgo the possibility of bringing in another kid. It just comes down to what is an acceptable consequence for a kid breaking their commitment. We can agree to disagree and I think that is probably the situation here. I don't think preventing a kid from going to anywhere he wants is acceptable. However, to maintain fairness to all involved and to bring order to the situation I do think a 1 year waiting period is acceptable with waivers for family situations/ player safety/coaching changes etc. I do think for many years conferences and the NCAA was very very anti-transfer and mostly that has changed. I think it is in a happy medium now. To make it basically the wild wild west I don't think is good. I mean is it fair that the NBA players can't get out of a contract and simply transfer to another team when they want. Rules and structure are a good thing. Exceptions to the rules can be good too. As long as there is consistency and transparancy.

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There is no right or wrong in these types if discussions.  Everyone has their own opinion, but ultimately the decisions in this case are up to Armaan and Woodson.  

Personally, I want Armaan back.  I think he has the highest ceiling of anyone on last year's roster.  but what I want does not and should not matter.  He needs to make the decision that is best for him. 

That said, Mike Woodson also has a decision to make.  How long can he wait before he has to make a roster decision that may directly impact Armaan's status with the program.  If there is a high level shooting guard in the portal. does Woodson wait 1 week, 2 weeks, or longer for Armaan to decide?  Good chance that high level shooting guard will be under just as much pressure to make a decision of his own.

Bottom line is that, I will, first and foremost, root for the players that put in the Candy Stripes next season.  That said, if there are former IU players I respected at other schools, I will wish them success as well.

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3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I get what your saying and agree to it partly but then would you be ok with IU revoking the scholarship after a year because the kid didn't live up to his expectations. IU is making a commitment of 4 years to a kid. I don't think it is unreasonable if the kid wants to get out of the commitment that they sit out a year. I'm all about protecting kids but the University should have some protections as well. How much time, money, energy is spent to bring the kid in. You forgo the possibility of bringing in another kid. It just comes down to what is an acceptable consequence for a kid breaking their commitment. We can agree to disagree and I think that is probably the situation here. I don't think preventing a kid from going to anywhere he wants is acceptable. However, to maintain fairness to all involved and to bring order to the situation I do think a 1 year waiting period is acceptable with waivers for family situations/ player safety/coaching changes etc. I do think for many years conferences and the NCAA was very very anti-transfer and mostly that has changed. I think it is in a happy medium now. To make it basically the wild wild west I don't think is good. I mean is it fair that the NBA players can't get out of a contract and simply transfer to another team when they want. Rules and structure are a good thing. Exceptions to the rules can be good too. As long as there is consistency and transparancy.

Scholarships are one year, if a school goes beyond that it's up to them. 

Do you not remember Creaning? We have forced kids out and probably will do it again, and those kids had to sit a year. That's such an archaic rule. 

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1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

I do know it's not real, it's there to get a point across. Your point is just an absolutely absurd one that dehumanizes Armaan because he might consider playing a child's game for a different team. 

Dehumanizes?  Just stop.  He is free to explore his options and so is the school/Woodson.  I am stating my preference, Woodson will do what he wants.  Moving on from someone who is not fully on board with the current relationship is not dehumanizing, it is one of the most common human interactions that are out there.  

This is not attacking him.  This is not saying he is bad for wanting to make sure this is a good fit for him.  It is saying that for the good of the team, allowing him an open amount of time to make up his mind is a bad idea, in my opinion.  He is keeping his options open, so should Woodson.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

There is no right or wrong in these types if discussions.  Everyone has their own opinion, but ultimately the decisions in this case are up to Armaan and Woodson.  

Personally, I want Armaan back.  I think he has the highest ceiling of anyone on last year's roster.  but what I want does not and should not matter.  He needs to make the decision that is best for him. 

That said, Mike Woodson also has a decision to make.  How long can he wait before he has to make a roster decision that may directly impact Armaan's status with the program.  If there is a high level shooting guard in the portal. does Woodson wait 1 week, 2 weeks, or longer for Armaan to decide?  Good chance that high level shooting guard will be under just as much pressure to make a decision of his own.

Bottom line is that, I will, first and foremost, root for the players that put in the Candy Stripes next season.  That said, if there are former IU players I respected at other schools, I will wish them success as well.

Perfectly said. I feel the same way. I rooted for Justin this year to be successful. It would be hard if a kid went to our rival and played against us. I can see how fans would feel and honestly who am I to tell a fan how to be a fan. I will just control my own fandom unless it crossed the line of the kid's safety and well being (like hate mail/threats etc). Armaan has the right to choose...and we have the right to move on. Again...I hope we see him back but IU will still play ball with or without him.

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52 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Don't the players have that same issue with credits not transferring?

🤷‍♂️ ... I assume so. Why I pushed IUPUI on my sister when she was down to U of I and IUPUI..  so much easier to transfer to and from publics. In my experience, at least. 

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7 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Dehumanizes?  Just stop.  He is free to explore his options and so is the school/Woodson.  I am stating my preference, Woodson will do what he wants.  Moving on from someone who is not fully on board with the current relationship is not dehumanizing, it is one of the most common human interactions that are out there.  

This is not attacking him.  This is not saying he is bad for wanting to make sure this is a good fit for him.  It is saying that for the good of the team, allowing him an open amount of time to make up his mind is a bad idea, in my opinion.  He is keeping his options open, so should Woodson.

 

 

Didn't you compare Armaan stepping back to evaluate his options to a girl having sex with other guys behind her fiance's back? 

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9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Perfectly said. I feel the same way. I rooted for Justin this year to be successful. It would be hard if a kid went to our rival and played against us. I can see how fans would feel and honestly who am I to tell a fan how to be a fan. I will just control my own fandom unless it crossed the line of the kid's safety and well being (like hate mail/threats etc). Armaan has the right to choose...and we have the right to move on. Again...I hope we see him back but IU will still play ball with or without him.

I have to admit if Armaan would happen to choose to transfer to one of Purdue Kentucky or Illinois there is no way I would root for him. Now if he did decide to transfer and it wasn't one of those three schools I would cheer him on wherever it is.

Hopefully none of this matters and he decides to stay. I think he could have a big year for IU next season.

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5 minutes ago, btownqb said:

🤷‍♂️ ... I assume so. Why I pushed IUPUI on my sister when she was down to U of I and IUPUI..  so much easier to transfer to and from publics. In my experience, at least. 

So you're agreeing there are already challenges in place when a player challenges, you just want it to be even more cumbersome on college athletes than it is for normal students? I don't get that. 

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34 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

No, but he is a person and the fact that you don't care about him figuring out what is best for him, only what is best for your entertainment value is honestly repulsive. 

I do want to say something about this though, just a question, how many other Indiana University students do you spend time talking about on a message board?  You discussing old Johnny Smith's chemistry class and how he is having a really rough time with deciding whether the science program at Indiana is the best place for him?

We are all here because first and foremost, those guys represent a form of entertainment to us.  That is not a terrible thing.  They get a free education or an audition for the pros and we get to enjoy watching a sport we like.  I can at least be honest with myself that my interest in them and all the former IU players is because they played a kids game.  That doesn't mean I wish bad things on them if things don't go the way I wish they would or that the struggles they may face as humans are not important, it means that my interest in those things about them only comes up because of their connection to this game.  So I can empathize and feel bad for Parker for losing his Dad.  Terrible thing for anyone to go through, particularly at that time in life.  But the only reason I know his story is because of him being on this team.

If Franklin leaves, my interest in him will decline.  Not because he is bad or I hate him, but because he is not involved in what I am following anymore.  Whether you want to admit it or not, your interest in Franklin relates to what entertains you as well.

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7 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Scholarships are one year, if a school goes beyond that it's up to them. 

Do you not remember Creaning? We have forced kids out and probably will do it again, and those kids had to sit a year. That's such an archaic rule. 

I said in the past it was too much power in the hands of the schools/conferences. If I understand correctly the school changed the rules on this to allow the kid to remain on scholarship. We don't owe a kid to play him or be on the team. If he wanted to transfer then he can go through the portal. The NCAA can waive the 1 year waiting period and I would think if a University dismissed him from the team he would/should be eligible immediately. So we agree on that situation. Kid should be able to transfer. Few schools fight against a kids ability to transfer...none would fight a kid they no longer want on the team...that would be asinine. I don't think we will agree because you think there should be no rules on it. If that is the case then every kid would be open to "free agency" and schools would be recruiting kids on other schools teams. The NCAA has the right to put limits and enforcements on the ability of kids to play basketball inside their ecosystem. I mean if its right to work why couldn't a kid play for 5 years....6 years...why have any rules at all?? Anything that doesn't benefit the player should be thrown out. The players rights should trump everything is what your saying. In the end there is an agreement to the rules when you enter into college sports. Some rules are there to protect players...some to protect the University and the NCAA. Some there are compromises....in this case you can transfer...you just have to sit out a year...you still get to keep the year of eligibility...you go to the school you want...nobody is stopping you....you get to take classes right away etc...you can work out with the team..you just can't play. Nobody is stopping a kid from leaving...he just isn't playing right away but he doesn't lose anything. I think the harm you feel to the player must outweigh the harm to the University and the NCAA if they were to change things. I think there is pretty good evidence this year that if they were to change the system to permanant immediate transfers the system would in great deal fall apart. I don't think coaches and Universities could sustain this going forward as the defacto rule. It is a special circumstance...a one time pandemic and so they are just trying to get through it so things can get back to normal. NCAA does a lot wrong..so I don't like to support much of their policies but I think they have done pretty well reforming the transfer rules and also making exceptions...and in this year exception for all student athletes. 

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6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Didn't you compare Armaan stepping back to evaluate his options to a girl having sex with other guys behind her fiance's back? 

Nope, compared it to her doing it with his knowledge.  Nothing secret about what is going on.  "I am not sure I can commit to this so I need to explore some other options and see if you are really what I want."  I also said nothing wrong with that.  Everyone knows the deal.  And the flip side of that deal is that the other partner should be free to explore their options and not wait around as well.

Crude analogy?  Guilty.  I stand by the underlying message I was trying to get across though.  This is a two way street and everyone should be exploring their options if one party or the other is not ready to commit to the other.

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14 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I do want to say something about this though, just a question, how many other Indiana University students do you spend time talking about on a message board?  You discussing old Johnny Smith's chemistry class and how he is having a really rough time with deciding whether the science program at Indiana is the best place for him?

We are all here because first and foremost, those guys represent a form of entertainment to us.  That is not a terrible thing.  They get a free education or an audition for the pros and we get to enjoy watching a sport we like.  I can at least be honest with myself that my interest in them and all the former IU players is because they played a kids game.  That doesn't mean I wish bad things on them if things don't go the way I wish they would or that the struggles they may face as humans are not important, it means that my interest in those things about them only comes up because of their connection to this game.  So I can empathize and feel bad for Parker for losing his Dad.  Terrible thing for anyone to go through, particularly at that time in life.  But the only reason I know his story is because of him being on this team.

If Franklin leaves, my interest in him will decline.  Not because he is bad or I hate him, but because he is not involved in what I am following anymore.  Whether you want to admit it or not, your interest in Franklin relates to what entertains you as well.

Yes, my interest in him is partia dependent on his playing for IU. My wanting him to do what is best for him as a person is completely independent of that. 

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Just now, KoB2011 said:

Yes, my interest in him is partia dependent on his playing for IU. My wanting him to do what is best for him as a person is completely independent of that. 

I don't disagree with any of what you just said.  I never said I wanted any of the guys to do something that was not good for them.  

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19 minutes ago, Rev_AK said:

I just wanna say that these message boards are public, and are looked at by players and their parents  more than we know. I know in the case of Franklin, his mother is very engaged in social media, and has even done some outstanding interviews on some podcasts. He seems like a good kid from a solid family, and if he goes to Illinois, does that make him a “traitor?” I am not necessarily referring to any previous posts, but also the things I am seeing on IUBB Twitter page. These are young men, and none of the   “Tough guys” that played for RMK had to deal with people going on Twitter or Instagram and criticizing everything they do. For instance, I saw a lot of outrageous stuff said about RP, and we wondered why he froze up when shooting? Parents see that, too, and if the perception is that we have a jaded fanbase that will turn on these kids, ( and I know it’s most if not all schools) why wouldn’t they encourage their kids to try something new? None of these players came to IU with the imagination of boos raining down on them on their last game of the year. I would love to see Franklin back, but he needs to do what’s best for him, and IU will move on.

I agree.  I’m totally fine with Armaan leaving.  It’s probably fait accompli at this point and people need to get past it.  I won’t lose a wink of sleep over him.   I believe he bounced around in high school too.  Some guys are just flighty.  I never buy into the coaches or fans who believe you need to be obsequious to the players regardless of what they do.    

Basketball is not an abstract idea.  It is a team game and the purpose is to win games.  We need kids that are committed to the program and want to win games for our team.  Players that aren’t of that mindset should in fact leave, and go to Champaign-Urbana or Columbus or whatever.  That’s better for everybody.  In their place, IU should go get players that are competitive and about winning.  

I have mentored a ton of people and been thanked many times for it.  One of the biggest mistakes people make is to to get involved in self-drama and getting distracted with another shiny object.  “Oh, lookie here, there is a transfer portal, that means we should go look at our school’s direct competitors.”  

The best advice I can give anyone is to stay away from drama and distractions, be team oriented, keep your head down, and do your best.  You know what happens?  You will do well and everything falls into place.  NBA. Money.  Lifestyle.  Success.   It all falls in line.

If I am an NBA GM and I look at a player who transfers from being a key piece on a team to go to a direct competitor, I do a massive double take.  It’s not all that common, and for good reason.  I’m talking about a kid now who expressed no loyalty, but especially no competitive spirit, for his own team.  As a GM I will take the next kid who will be competitive for me.  

I could tell so many stories of people who are wired to look around for an extra $10k or whatever and they end up on the merry go round of constantly moving around endlessly.  You lose in the end.  I grew up in my firm with a guy who was thriving but left due to some idiotic drama in his head.  He’s over fifty years old now, on about his sixth firm, and is literally still an associate at his age.  He openly admitted to me what a mistake that was.  His story is very typical of that mindset.  

If Armaan wants to leave a head coach from his hometown who knows exactly what skill sets are needed for the NBA, and to leave for a direct rival, I’d say you’ve got a kid with issues.  

I would love to see this program cleansed of these types of guys, and I think it’s going to happen.  Enough with being obsequious to those guys.  I am sorry but if you want to talk to Illinois after two years at IU, you deserve criticism.   Don’t go clutching your pearls if the fans don’t think it’s awesome for you to talk to a rival, particularly a dipstick like Brad Underwood.  

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38 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Scholarships are one year, if a school goes beyond that it's up to them. 

Do you not remember Creaning? We have forced kids out and probably will do it again, and those kids had to sit a year. That's such an archaic rule. 

I'm with you on that.  If a kid is forced out, he should be able to move without sitting.  It's a fine line.  If a kid feels forced out because his playing time is reduced, that's a much tougher sell.

...and yes, if you have a change in coaches, players should have freedom to move without sitting a year.  My only concern there is a coach tampering with them and gutting the program he is leaving.

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