Clif Marshall

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

Yes, if Woody recruited guys and they didn't know how to dribble, it would be his job to teach them how to dribble. If they recruit guys that can't shoot, you teach them how to shoot. So if you don't know how to lift, you allow them to lift and hurt themselves?  That sounds like a terrible strength and conditioning coach. Maybe these guys have never lifted in their life:"yeah just go lift, if you don't know how, sorry, try not to hurt yourself." 

Why the heck would he recruit some that couldn't dribble? Lol

[btownqb]

5 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

Hmmm. Are those ways not properly executed lifts? How is he teaching them if not "teaching them to lift". If his job is to just pick some exercises for them to do, then I think he should have a part time job, or even be replaced my a magazine subscription. If his job is to make sure kids are doing things the right way, then he is valuable.

Not properly executed lifts? No one should be lifting in improperly. 

They should know how to lift by the time they get to college. His job is expand on that. 

I've never met a college professor that taught someone how to read. Same thing. 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, kyhoosier29 said:

You may be partially correct, but every kid has to be disciplined enough when they are not being watched to lift correctly. Do you think the whole team and Cliff stand around watching one person lift at a time? A lot of self discipline that goes into lifting. Not only doing it right when nobody is watching, but also not trying to lift too much. On top of that, eating poorly can negatively affect your body as well. 

Yep...accountability....preach it all the time in sports and life. Lifting has always been one of those things. Making sure you get all your reps in...you are pushing yourself...all those things. Agreed I don't think btown is saying he doesn't critic and coach their technique AT all...but that he can't monitor every set is all.

[btownqb]

7 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

Yes, if Woody recruited guys and they didn't know how to dribble, it would be his job to teach them how to dribble. If they recruit guys that can't shoot, you teach them how to shoot. So if you don't know how to lift, you allow them to lift and hurt themselves?  That sounds like a terrible strength and conditioning coach. Maybe these guys have never lifted in their life:"yeah just go lift, if you don't know how, sorry, try not to hurt yourself." 

When did I say any of that?

I'm saying if there are injuries in the weight room it's because players are more than likely doing things the wrong way, and that isn't because a trainer is telling them to do so. 

Sometimes.. injury just happens. I tore 3 ligaments in my thumb by shoving a kid when I was 15. Couldn't throw for 10 weeks during football season. 

Do we have some abnormal amount of players getting hurt by doing poor form on the squat rack that I'm unaware of? 

 

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

I am just putting two and two together and heard Rob did have an injury from lifting. Could be wrong. Just putting this out there based on the other posters friend saying there was bad technique in the video + recent back injuries. 

I'm just going to say it's dangerous to assume anything.....especially in the Archie regime. I mean I assume Archie wouldn't bring in or hang on to a strength coach that puts guys on the shelf for half a season and contributes to their losing and poor shooting and gets him fired....but again I don't want to assume.

[btownqb]

6 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

You may be partially correct, but every kid has to be disciplined enough when they are not being watched to lift correctly. Do you think the whole team and Cliff stand around watching one person lift at a time? A lot of self discipline that goes into lifting. Not only doing it right when nobody is watching, but also not trying to lift too much. On top of that, eating poorly can negatively affect your body as well. 

Preach

[bluegrassIU]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Not properly executed lifts? No one should be lifting in improperly. 

They should know how to lift by the time they get to college. His job is expand on that. 

I've never met a college professor that taught someone how to read. Same thing. 

There are many high schools out there that do not have much in the way of strength and conditions programs. Especially some smaller schools. I think it is probable a handful of kids come to college with never being properly taught lifting techniques.

 

[btownqb]

5 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

There are many high schools out there that do not have much in the way of strength and conditions programs. Especially some smaller schools. I think it is probable a handful of kids come to college with never being properly taught lifting techniques.

 

I agree with that. I don't think any of our kids fit that bill, at all. 

Center Grove, Bloomington South, Evansville Reitz, Culver, McCutcheon, Cathedral. 

He can adjust things, make changes... just like coaches do with shooting. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by btownqb

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I agree with that. I don't think any of our kids fit that bill, at all. 

Center Grove, Bloomington South, Evansville Reitz, Culver, McCutcheon, Cathedral. 

Southport. 

[3Ballin]

14 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

Yes, if Woody recruited guys and they didn't know how to dribble, it would be his job to teach them how to dribble. If they recruit guys that can't shoot, you teach them how to shoot. So if you don't know how to lift, you allow them to lift and hurt themselves?  That sounds like a terrible strength and conditioning coach. Maybe these guys have never lifted in their life:"yeah just go lift, if you don't know how, sorry, try not to hurt yourself." 

So did you just become a fan within the last 10 days....been in a coma the last 4 years perhaps?  Because there wasnt ANYONE taught to shoot in that time frame. We had Storm Troopers laughing at how little we hit!!  🤣🤣

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, 3Ballin said:

So did you just become a fan within the last 10 days....been in a coma the last 4 years perhaps?  Because there wasnt ANYONE taught to shoot in that time frame. We had Storm Troopers laughing at how little we hit!!  🤣🤣

 

[kyhoosier29]

If we’re having to “teach” kids how to shoot, we’re recruiting the wrong guys. Improve? Yes. But teach? Shooters aren’t taught in college. 

[dgambill]

Wow...I wondered the need for this thread....and now look at it lol. Didn't realize all the animosity over Clif. I ain't going to lie the hype videos he kept putting out with the verticals and the before and after pics put me off but if gets results and he makes lifting fun and encouraging for the players so they enjoy it and want to put the effort in...I'm all for him. (Again unless he has somehow truly resulted in injuries)

I guess with Archie gone we need a new scape goat....because it can't  be so simple that perhaps Indiana just doesn't put out the best shooters in the country anymore.

Edited April 7, 2021 by dgambill

[btownqb]

I found one video of one rep of one player arching his back on bench press. This will not hurt you.. maybe give you a spasm for 2 seconds, that's it. 

Non issue. 

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Wow...I wondered the need for this thread....and now look at it lol. Didn't realize all the animosity over Clif. I ain't going to lie the hype videos he kept putting out with the verticals and the before and after pics put me off but if gets results and he makes lifting fun and encouraging for the players so they enjoy it and want to put the effort in...I'm all for him. (Again unless he has somehow truly resulted in injuries)

I guess with Archie gone we need a new scape goat....because it can't  be so simple that perhaps Indiana just doesn't put out the best shooters in the country anymore.

But they aren't for fans. The kids like that stuff. Races body transformation was impressive. He should be flaunting that, same with Justins vert.

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

But they aren't for fans. The kids like that stuff. Races body transformation was impressive. He should be flaunting that, same with Justins vert.

I get it...then everyone on the board was passing it around like oh snap this is going to change our program.....and it didn't. Agreed though its about giving kids confidence and making it fun because lets be honest....I hated lifting in high school. Soo boring!!! Much rather get another 100 shots up. Then again....I do bench presses with dumb bells lol....so I'm definitely not someone to give advice lol!!!

[btownqb]

Just now, dgambill said:

I get it...then everyone on the board was passing it around like oh snap this is going to change our program.....and it didn't. Agreed though its about giving kids confidence and making it fun because lets be honest....I hated lifting in high school. Soo boring!!! Much rather get another 100 shots up. Then again....I do bench presses with dumb bells lol....so I'm definitely not someone to give advice lol!!!

I hated shooting 100 shots lol I'd much rather lift. 🤷‍♂️

[dgambill]

Just now, btownqb said:

I hated shooting 100 shots lol I'd much rather lift. 🤷‍♂️

Yeah...I played football my senior year because I went to a small school and we had like 3 kids break arm/collarbone and so I played starting TE. You football guys love the weight room. Outside the music I was like get me out of here lol.

[go_iu_bb]

1 hour ago, OGIUAndy said:

IU has had a lot of guys with back and/or lifting injuries: Rob, Galloway, Brunk, Romeo (in addition to the thumb). So I hope they do investigate him some as to why everyone is getting similar injuries. 

I've been saying the same thing. Romeo had a back/abdominal injury? I don't recall that. You forgot McRoberts on your list. He was the first back injury under Miller. 4 or 5 injuries like that in 3 or 4 years (I don't remember if McRoberts hurt his back in year 1 or 2) is a lot. 

[NCHoosier32]

i don't think this is nearly as important of a topic as some think.  sure, you need someone who knows what they're doing.  i'm pretty sure Marshall does.  my son had never lifted until the spring of his 8th grade year.  his high school coach started the rising 9th graders off lifting very light weights and focused on technique.  we are a good sized 3A school (highest in NC is 4A).  our coach does a good job of getting our guys to lift year round.  my son has put on a lot of muscle/weight over the last few years.  he has always been an elite shooter and this did not change it.  when he goes to college, i would expect whatever level he plays at will have someone to oversee his weight training and he will have a good base, but if he is doing some lifts improperly, i am sure the trainer would catch it and point it out.  

[NCHoosier32]

now, i did leave out that one of the grads from our school came back and told our coach that he was much more prepared for college lifting than the other freshmen that came in with him.  granted there are still HS coaches who either don't value the weight room enough or are not educated on it enough, but honestly at this point, that is just lazy.  

[dgambill]

4 hours ago, dgambill said:

Is it Clif??? Is it the kids fault?? Is it Archie?? Hard to say for sure.

I’ll point back to this. Baylor just physically got all over Gonzaga...smothered them. Them lifting with the football team....it showed the other night.

[mrflynn03]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

I’ll point back to this. Baylor just physically got all over Gonzaga...smothered them. Them lifting with the football team....it showed the other night.

I will include @btownqb

In my experience when training for sports there are a few universal lifts that need to be trained for by everyone. 

Just my opinion.

Deadlift, power clean, squat, and OHP. 

For the vast majority of athletes bench press is useless, especially if you have long arms. Unless you are a lineman bench dont mean sh!t. 

Thighs,hams, glutes, back and abdominals is where athletes get their strength and power. Dont forget about calves either. 

 

[OGIUAndy]

5 hours ago, kyhoosier29 said:

If we’re having to “teach” kids how to shoot, we’re recruiting the wrong guys. Improve? Yes. But teach? Shooters aren’t taught in college. 

I was making an analogy. College coaches are supposed to “teach”. I played sports and have lifted etc. too. high school isn’t college, college isn’t the pros. Every level has a learning curve. Why hire a coach/trainer at if these guys know everything when they come in? IU has had a lot back injuries during this particular trainer’s tenure, that is a fact. I know players and others like like him and I know kids work out by themselves, but good habits are developed just like bad ones. Just putting it out there for discussion. 

[OGIUAndy]

2 hours ago, dgambill said:

I’ll point back to this. Baylor just physically got all over Gonzaga...smothered them. Them lifting with the football team....it showed the other night.

IU never looked stronger than the other team. They never finished at the rim. Golic is also an idiot, but that’s an entirely different discussion.