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Clif Marshall


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23 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Well if I thought the strength coach was the difference between winning and losing I might care more.  For basketball players I want to see basketball development and even conditioning over the weight room.

Those Baylor boys, or should I say GROWN A** MEN, made quite a few teams look like they haven't been "conditioning" nor working on their basketball skills.  

Guys pack it up.  He's digging in for the long haul.  Facts can't get between a Scott opinion.  How long y'all been here? Lol

 

Edited by NotIThatLives
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7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

My point is if we were winning, shooting well and staying healthy I wouldn't have a problem with these pictures but we haven't.

Ok well.. Marshall's job isn't to make them good shooters. I dont ask an astronaut to fix my car.  

I dont think we've had anymore injuries than anyone else. 

So.. in your opinion... Clif Marshall shouldn't post the pics of him doing well at this job? I do not understand. 

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39 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I have watched enough basketball over the 45 + years and saw plenty of great shooters who did not do a lot of weight training.  Not saying not to do weight training bit I don't need to see these pictures all the time.  With how poor we shot the last 4 years there appears to be a circulation between the two.

I totally disagree with your angle here.  Plus, you don’t have to be Jim Rowinski or Lou Ferrigno, but you can’t seriously believe strength isn’t part of basketball?   You have to hold your ground on D, block out, finish through contact.  Look at Lander and how much strength he needs.  

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6 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I totally disagree with your angle here.  Plus, you don’t have to be Jim Rowinski or Lou Ferrigno, but you can’t seriously believe strength isn’t part of basketball?   You have to hold your ground on D, block out, finish through contact.  Look at Lander and how much strength he needs.  

Didn't know if I should like this or cry?  Lander is going to take a leap just with the confidence he will gain in the off season strength training program.  Knowing he won't get punked anymore.  

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2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Didn't know if I should like this or cry?  Lander is going to take a leap just with the confidence he will gain in the off season strength training program.  Knowing he won't get punked anymore.  

I agree and I certainly didn’t mean that as a shot at Lander as I really like him.  (Just to be clear.)   But as someone who is squarely on his side, I don’t think it’s super controversial to say he needs to get stronger as he should have been a high school senior.  I totally agree with you that added strength will let him be more assertive as he goes into the lane.  It can help him in all aspects of his game. 

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32 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

My point is if we were winning, shooting well and staying healthy I wouldn't have a problem with these pictures but we haven't.

But they are not related Scott. Cliff is posting videos of players results in the area he is in charge of.

Just like a shooting coach would post videos of a shooters progress.

You may want to see videos of different types, but this is Clif's department. He is not going to post a video of how the players zone offense is really moving the ball.

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Only thing I’ll add to this conversation.

How many complaints have we had about kids not being able to finish at the rim? How often have we complained about guys not going strong to the basket?

We need our players to resemble what Baylor’s team was this past year. Strong to the hole, strong around the rim and able to body up on defense 

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Just as an example, I bet most of us have swam, lifted weights etc before playing ball before, right?  I can honestly say it didn’t affect my shot.  Maybe it’s the way my eye-hand coordination works.  

How about a baseball player in the on deck circle with the donut?  Or a kid practicing with ankle weights on?  I’ve done that before.  I could calibrate my game afterwards.  

We all love sports or we wouldn’t be here.  As a kid, there were days where any of us might have played three sports.  Not necessarily in a league, but just the day in the life of a kid. I just bring it up because we’ve all calibrated for another factor.  Another example is you are tired and you start getting short on your shot.  You can see what is happening and start really focus extra hard on getting the right lift in your legs.  

I have a hard time believing that high level athletes who in no way compare to any of us can’t calibrate their shot for added strength.  It happens gradually and they are in the gym every day.  

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2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

My point is if we were winning, shooting well and staying healthy I wouldn't have a problem with these pictures but we haven't.

Totally confused.  I enjoy any insight into the program.  And, lifting is cool and they do a nice job.  Do you think they are going to post content that can get scouted?  Do you think they will post shooting form corrections so you can then turn around and post negative feedback on it where players read it?

Injury?  Every team battles injuries, some coaches have players play through, some do not.  Injuries happen everywhere. MJ had the best trainer in the world and he was injured.  Come down weird on an ankle, nothing is going to prevent that.  Back injuries that linger from HS, only surgery corrects it.  

Coach Cliff is legit and his program is created along with the Head Coach.  He is about relationships first, followed by nutrition and building lean muscle.  He isn't going to make athletes twice as fast - recruiting will do that.  

Also love the yoga - many championship teams have done yoga, ballet, etc - fun, sound for the mind and works the body.  Oh, and might help with flexibility preventing less injury. 

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10 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Lynn Swann and Herschel Walker both did ballet...

Never got into it myself, but I bet my calfs would of been EVEN better - ha.  Great for the coordination and probably vertical.  I did wear those shoes that elevated your heals off the ground while doing plyometric work.

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4 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I have watched enough basketball over the 45 + years and saw plenty of great shooters who did not do a lot of weight training.  Not saying not to do weight training bit I don't need to see these pictures all the time.  With how poor we shot the last 4 years there appears to be a circulation between the two.

Scott, I wish for you and everyone else. I could find the ESPN interview with Coach Knight and Coach K several years back! Tried many times but no success! But after all the reminiscing between the two, the interviewer asked is there anything about today’s game that you like more? Dead silence! Finally, Coach Knight spoke up and said “The silence is telling isn’t it, today’s game is about athletes playing basketball instead of basketball players playing basketball.”

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16 minutes ago, Drroogh said:

Scott, I wish for you and everyone else. I could find the ESPN interview with Coach Knight and Coach K several years back! Tried many times but no success! But after all the reminiscing between the two, the interviewer asked is there anything about today’s game that you like more? Dead silence! Finally, Coach Knight spoke up and said “The silence is telling isn’t it, today’s game is about athletes playing basketball instead of basketball players playing basketball.”

Interesting.  I do know Knight shifted his thinking and started to emphasize the weight room a little more.

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1 hour ago, Drroogh said:

Scott, I wish for you and everyone else. I could find the ESPN interview with Coach Knight and Coach K several years back! Tried many times but no success! But after all the reminiscing between the two, the interviewer asked is there anything about today’s game that you like more? Dead silence! Finally, Coach Knight spoke up and said “The silence is telling isn’t it, today’s game is about athletes playing basketball instead of basketball players playing basketball.”

It's kind of a weird quote though, because basketball players have never been more skilled than they are now. 

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22 hours ago, btownqb said:

Ok well.. Marshall's job isn't to make them good shooters. I dont ask an astronaut to fix my car.  

I dont think we've had anymore injuries than anyone else. 

So.. in your opinion... Clif Marshall shouldn't post the pics of him doing well at this job? I do not understand. 

And that my friend is why you will never visit the moon! 🚀 lol

To Scott's and some others defense I think we all got pretty frustrated that it seemed the only imagery/message coming out of the IU athletic's media department was of guys increasing their bench and verticals....and not of them improving their jumper, working on drop steps, free throws, pull ups etc. Then when our play and shooting hasn't improved over 4 years I can see why people are salty. Maybe they think too much attention and focus on body and not enough on craft. I doubt that is the case...but no one is at practice to say. I just think too much attention and focus on the defensive end in practice and not enough on creating and building confidence on the offensive end.

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16 hours ago, BGleas said:

It's kind of a weird quote though, because basketball players have never been more skilled than they are now. 

But are they between the ears? Are they the same deep down inside in what motivates them and makes them tick? I certainly think the skills and athleticism has certainly increased but there are these intangibles that can't be measured that seems to continue to be lost. How many times have we pointed to a kid and said...that kid might not be the best athlete on the floor...most talented but he just knows the game so well....right place right time all the time. Makes the smart play....dives on the floor. Knows every part of a system and how to play and where to be no matter what position he is on the floor. I think the coach was viewing much more than just the dribble, pass, shoot of a basketball player.

 

However, to your point we've done a great job of turning our best athletes into ball players...and certainly that has improved a lot in the past 7-10 years...so I do think that the statement is quickly becoming obsolete but I think maybe even 10-15 years ago when this quote was likely taken...it might have held more relevance when comparing guys from the 70's and 80's to those of the early 2000s. There was a period of time when basketball kind of switched over from that fundamental phase to where teams were just loading up on athletes and trying to turn them into better players seemed like in the early 2000s that there was a disconnect. Now however even the most athletic players have been getting coached up and improved and identified at such an early age that their skills are highly advanced...so I think the quote was specific to a place and time when it was said. There are still many short comings in the system with what is emphasized and over valued and focused on so improvement is very much needed..but certainly kids are coming in more highly skilled now for sure.

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  • bluegrassIU changed the title to Clif Marshall

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