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1 hour ago, Between2Halls said:

Questions about the roster. 
 

1. Who do you see as All Big 10 caliber during their time here?

2. Who do you see as possible Big Ten POY during their time here?

3. Who do you see as Big Ten Defensive POY during their time here?

1. I'm assuming you don't mean just first team, but TJD, XJ, Bates, Stewart, Lander, Duncomb. 

2. TJD, Bates, Lander

3. XJ and Bates have the potential, doubt anyone on our current roster wins it. RP is probably good enough too if he was going to play 30 minutes per game. 

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2 hours ago, Between2Halls said:

Questions about the roster. 
 

1. Who do you see as All Big 10 caliber during their time here?

2. Who do you see as possible Big Ten POY during their time here?

3. Who do you see as Big Ten Defensive POY during their time here?

1. TJD and Johnson possible this upcoming season. Bates in the future.

2. TJD

3. N/A

Edited by go_iu_bb
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The unknown bothers people for some reason. We went into the "unknown" with Coach Woodson and so far, it's gone well. It's ok we don't necessarily know for sure what Kopp, Stewart, and Johnson will give us.

I, for the life of me, can't understand the defending of some of these returning players. I don't have some personal vendetta against RP, KL, and JH... but they flat out weren't good enough last year. JH can't dribble, his lack of defense is a little over blown though. KL showed us basically nothing. RP is a good to great defender, but that is it. He shot 29% from 3 and doesn't finish well in the lane. 

Now.. I do think a new coaching staff with much better skill development will absolutely help. But there is a reason we were awful last year... and it wasn't solely on the coaching staff. Those 3 have to be better or they simply will not play. 

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1 hour ago, btownqb said:

The unknown bothers people for some reason. We went into the "unknown" with Coach Woodson and so far, it's gone well. It's ok we don't necessarily know for sure what Kopp, Stewart, and Johnson will give us.

I, for the life of me, can't understand the defending of some of these returning players. I don't have some personal vendetta against RP, KL, and JH... but they flat out weren't good enough last year. JH can't dribble, his lack of defense is a little over blown though. KL showed us basically nothing. RP is a good to great defender, but that is it. He shot 29% from 3 and doesn't finish well in the lane. 

Now.. I do think a new coaching staff with much better skill development will absolutely help. But there is a reason we were awful last year... and it wasn't solely on the coaching staff. Those 3 have to be better or they simply will not play. 

Einstein as attributed to this quote: "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that its stupid."

I think we defend some of these players because they have skillsets and abilities that weren't properly developed and showcased. They weren't put in situations to succeed and the results were poor.

Of course there are better players, and I hope the new additions are for the sake of the general team, but I feel like the returning guys weren't given the necessary space and situation(s) to perform at the level we all want. Like you said, hopefully that changes and the influx of new talent will challenge everyone to elevate their games... the way it should be.

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Not sure who will start but you have to like the options. Add me to the list of those who believe the roster is not finalized. At some point, a guard or two will likely see the writing on the wall and have to make a tough decisions. I'd still like the to add some size who can defend and also knock down a jumper.

My first thought is XJ didn't come here to sit and Bates may be too good to be on the bench for long. TJD is a lock. From  there it's anybodies guess. 

It is nice that while other programs are still scrambling to find players or wait out decisions, IU is for the most part set and ready to focus on development and recruiting.

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i know we'll keep taking this thread in circles, and it's all just our predictions, but i still think it comes down to this:  TJD and Johnson start.  very hard to imagine that Stewart won't start.  from there it will be great to see who wins battles with a clean slate.  seems Bates, Hunter, Kopp, and Thompson would be the most likely to battle for 2 spots.   

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Most predictions I've read are based on the offensive end of the court and that makes sense. I know CMW has made it clear defense is a priority - he is a Bob Knight kid - so that's not going to change. My guess is he will try to find a balance with the rotation but it seems his offense absolutely must have multiple shooters on the floor and guards fast enough to get by people.

The 41 offense dictates you have multiple shooters because it relies on spacing and movement. If the defense can sag off poor shooters the spacing goes away it is death to this offense. The guards must be able to drive to gaps and kick out for shots while the bigs must be able to set screens, move quickly to a spot, and be able to hit a spot up jumper. Villanova calls it "roll and replace" and they screen like crazy.

I'm hoping the skill development is strong enough to make some of these guys threats from outside. 

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Posted (edited)

I can't remember a roster truly this deep. Not sure if anyone is elite status other than TJD, although hopefully more will breakout. We have a whole club of guys that can play, boys. Competition for playing time should make everyone better. Loving it

Edited by Candystripes_56
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I hope TJD and Race start up front with Kopp and Geronimo subbing in.  Right now Greonimo is the last of those options.

Who is better?  Bates or Stewart?  it would seem that XJ will start at point and either of those two will start at SG.  The combinations and mixes of positional players after that is mind boggling.  RP can certainly play point guard, and probably will see good minutes.  The same goes for Lander.  Leal, if he becomes more confident, will shoot himself into a shooting guard position.  I think Hunter is the wild card.  If he stays, he can bring shooting and rebounding and can be dynamic.  Needs defensive improvement though.

In any case, this team should be far superior than those of the last few years.  No more 3-22's from outside the arc.

Theoretically, we could actually sub in a whole new five, depending on style of play and need.  But at the end of the game, only good free throw shooters and guards who can create and draw fouls should see the majority of time.

 

Edited by IUguy
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On 4/21/2021 at 9:13 AM, btownqb said:

The unknown bothers people for some reason. We went into the "unknown" with Coach Woodson and so far, it's gone well. It's ok we don't necessarily know for sure what Kopp, Stewart, and Johnson will give us.

I, for the life of me, can't understand the defending of some of these returning players. I don't have some personal vendetta against RP, KL, and JH... but they flat out weren't good enough last year. JH can't dribble, his lack of defense is a little over blown though. KL showed us basically nothing. RP is a good to great defender, but that is it. He shot 29% from 3 and doesn't finish well in the lane. 

Now.. I do think a new coaching staff with much better skill development will absolutely help. But there is a reason we were awful last year... and it wasn't solely on the coaching staff. Those 3 have to be better or they simply will not play. 

I think Lander was misused.  We did nothing offensively that played to his strengths.  

On a good team, especially one that is well coached (neither applied to IU last season), Phinisee's defense is going to be a plus.  Team's can still be good with a defensive specialist playing extended minutes and only averaging 4 or 5 points a game,  the key is to get those 4-5 points in 2-3 shot attempts, not 7-8

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2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I think Lander was misused.  We did nothing offensively that played to his strengths.  

On a good team, especially one that is well coached (neither applied to IU last season), Phinisee's defense is going to be a plus.  Team's can still be good with a defensive specialist playing extended minutes and only averaging 4 or 5 points a game,  the key is to get those 4-5 points in 2-3 shot attempts, not 7-8

This guy was the starting PG on IU's last undefeated team. (check out his FT percentage!)

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/quinn-buckner-1.html

He also played 10 years in the NBA.  Phinisee can absolutely contribute to a high level team.

Edited by FKIM01
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4 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I think Lander was misused.  We did nothing offensively that played to his strengths.  

On a good team, especially one that is well coached (neither applied to IU last season), Phinisee's defense is going to be a plus.  Team's can still be good with a defensive specialist playing extended minutes and only averaging 4 or 5 points a game,  the key is to get those 4-5 points in 2-3 shot attempts, not 7-8

I don't think a point guard can be a defensive specialist. Rob is either going to have to find a way to become a threat offensively both in terms of scoring and facilitating or else earn minutes off of the ball. 

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4 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I don't think a point guard can be a defensive specialist. Rob is either going to have to find a way to become a threat offensively both in terms of scoring and facilitating or else earn minutes off of the ball. 

ABSOLUTELY correct, our starting PG cannot have a stat line of 2 pts or fewer unless he has 20 assists.  We don't need a 20pt per game pg but we do need a live pulse at the position.  Many here keep thinking Lander is this NBA breakout player and as much as I hope this is true I will believe it when I see it as we have been burned with potential and projections in the not so distant past.  Rob P has been the biggest disappointment for me in his lack of a true playmaker this late in his development.  I'm not asking for 20pts per game from him but many times the box score reflected 2pts or less which is unacceptable for a player of his caliber.  I've come to realization that scoring is not his game which ultimately means less than 10min per game action.  I hope Lander takes that next step and shows us his NBA potential that many are projecting but I just didn't see enough last year to get too excited and cant wait to see the newcomers get a chance to actually showcase their talent and hopefully take over the starting duties.  Win/Win if either happens.  

Edited by BornHoosier
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I'm beginning to lean towards....

XJ, Stewart, Bates, kopp, and TJD.

I'm curious about how the three point guards situation plays out.

I think Race's most important role will be when TJD is out of the game, but he'll still play 20+ minutes.

I have no idea what to expect from Lander or Phinesee.  Probably the biggest variables on the team.  Lander's rating and Phinesee's freshman moments still have me wondering if they'll shine.  And fair or unfair, much of what I think about Archie as a coach will hinge on what I see from them this season.

I think Geronimo plays an important role off the bench. 

Leal and Galloway are still a year away.  As is Duncomb. 

And I'm pretty meh on Hunter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

This guy was the starting PG on IU's last undefeated team. (check out his FT percentage!)

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/quinn-buckner-1.html

He also played 10 years in the NBA.  Phinisee can absolutely contribute to a high level team.

Quinn Buckner was one of the toughest guys to wear the jersey. He played football also for two years. Buckner and Wilkerson were the best defensive backcourt I have ever seen. He was also a great leader. I like RP a lot and hope the coaching change helps him find his love for the game because I think that's been missing. He has the talent to play at a high level. However, he does not belong in the same conversation with Buckner. Very few do.

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4 hours ago, Blazin Hazin said:

I'm beginning to lean towards....

XJ, Stewart, Bates, kopp, and TJD.

I'm curious about how the three point guards situation plays out.

I think Race's most important role will be when TJD is out of the game, but he'll still play 20+ minutes.

I have no idea what to expect from Lander or Phinesee.  Probably the biggest variables on the team.  Lander's rating and Phinesee's freshman moments still have me wondering if they'll shine.  And fair or unfair, much of what I think about Archie as a coach will hinge on what I see from them this season.

I think Geronimo plays an important role off the bench. 

Leal and Galloway are still a year away.  As is Duncomb. 

And I'm pretty meh on Hunter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think your starting 5 makes the most sense right now

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4 hours ago, cthomas said:

Quinn Buckner was one of the toughest guys to wear the jersey. He played football also for two years. Buckner and Wilkerson were the best defensive backcourt I have ever seen. He was also a great leader. I like RP a lot and hope the coaching change helps him find his love for the game because I think that's been missing. He has the talent to play at a high level. However, he does not belong in the same conversation with Buckner. Very few do.

You miss my point.  Quinn (1) was not a great shooter, (2) did not have a great assist to turnover ratio and (3) was more valued for his defense. 

No one is saying Phinisee is the 2nd coming of Quinn Buckner here.  I'm simply saying there are ways to contribute without being a star on the offensive end.

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56 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

You miss my point.  Quinn (1) was not a great shooter, (2) did not have a great assist to turnover ratio and (3) was more valued for his defense. 

No one is saying Phinisee is the 2nd coming of Quinn Buckner here.  I'm simply saying there are ways to contribute without being a star on the offensive end.

That was approaching 50 years ago, the game is very different now. 

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On 4/23/2021 at 6:58 PM, IUguy said:

I hope TJD and Race start up front with Kopp and Geronimo subbing in.  Right now Greonimo is the last of those options.

Who is better?  Bates or Stewart?  it would seem that XJ will start at point and either of those two will start at SG.  The combinations and mixes of positional players after that is mind boggling.  RP can certainly play point guard, and probably will see good minutes.  The same goes for Lander.  Leal, if he becomes more confident, will shoot himself into a shooting guard position.  I think Hunter is the wild card.  If he stays, he can bring shooting and rebounding and can be dynamic.  Needs defensive improvement though.

In any case, this team should be far superior than those of the last few years.  No more 3-22's from outside the arc.

Theoretically, we could actually sub in a whole new five, depending on style of play and need.  But at the end of the game, only good free throw shooters and guards who can create and draw fouls should see the majority of time.

 

Indeed...Mike Woodson has a really well sharpened swiss army knife. TJD is that sharp knife blade and then he has a whole roster of options surrounding him. Very useful players that might not be great on their own but will come in handy when called upon and very versatile. He will have a roster full of options at his disposal. He has shooting, size, athleticism, veteran players, defensive specialist. Lot's of different lineup combos he could use....much much better roster construction than we've had in the past. I'm excited at the possibility. It will take a lot of work with all the new pieces learning each other and learning a new system but I got to think this team might have some hiccups early on but could really start rolling later in the season....definitely tournament quality and potential with some good matchups to make the second weekend.

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