Jump to content

How are things going in Athens?


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, IU_Realist said:

That’s some bullshit.  Painter is way more successful than Crean over the long haul.  Crean never finished over 5th in the Big East before here.  He was a wide swing of success and failures because he pissed off players and AAU coaches.  Fischer comes to mind.  Vonleh despised him.  Sheehey despised him.  Zeller and Hulls questioned him.  Why do you think he struggled recruiting in Indiana after the 2014 class?  The one success in recruiting in 2014 was a kid who never attempted to defend.  He did Patterson dirty.  We can go on and on and on and on if you want.  

Actually, while Crean was at IU, he was just as successful as Painter. Crean had 2 SOLO B1G championships and 3 Sweet 16's in his 9 years at IU. Painter had 1 shared title and 1 solo title and 3 Sweet 16's and he started at Purdue 3 years before Crean got to IU. IU fired Crean for that, where as Painter stays at no expectations PU.

Patterson had no one but himself to blame. He had a scholarship to play, he just didn't get his grades in order.

The stuff bolded above, you have 0 facts to prove any of it, so there is no point in debating your opinion.

Why do you hate the guy so much? I am not upset he was fired, but I don't hate him for what he did here.

Edited by IUaic
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, IU_Realist said:

 Vonleh despised him.  Sheehey despised him.  We can go on and on and on and on if you want.  

Vonleh despised him but Thomas Bryant did not.  Crean leads 1-0

Sheehey despised him but Oladipo and Yogi did not.  Crean leads 2-0

We all can twist the information however we want to make our point.  The fact is that Crean took over IU basketball at the worst point and time in it's history. 

We can debate whether or not the results on the court met expectations or not. 

We can also debate whether or not his personal idiosyncracies turn people off or not.

What we can't debate is the fact that, beginning in his 4th year at IU, and continuing until he was fired, the comparative record in conference games between Painter and Crean is as follows:

  • Tom Crean:  63-45
  • M. Painter: 61-47

So, if you're trying to make a point that Painter's style is more conducive to winning in the Big Ten, I'm not seeing it.

Edited by 5fouls
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, RoadToZion said:

There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start. Most of Crean's players LOVE the guy. They still stay in touch, often. The AAU coaches hating Crean is so overblown, and frankly not at all accurate. Patterson did himself dirty, fact. Sheehey did not despise him, fact. Will and I hung out with some of the same people and we interacted often. Fischer didn't fit with the roster so he went elsewhere, and Vonleh only looked out for himself, not sure what Crean could have done there.

Just because you have something against Crean doesn't mean you have to bring up internet rumors to try to prove that your hatred is warranted. Because in reality, Crean is a good coach. A bit quirky, but what he did for our University was actually very appreciated by many.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, RoadToZion said:

There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start. Most of Crean's players LOVE the guy. They still stay in touch, often. The AAU coaches hating Crean is so overblown, and frankly not at all accurate. Patterson did himself dirty, fact. Sheehey did not despise him, fact. Will and I hung out with some of the same people and we interacted often. Fischer didn't fit with the roster so he went elsewhere, and Vonleh only looked out for himself, not sure what Crean could have done there.

Just because you have something against Crean doesn't mean you have to bring up internet rumors to try to prove that your hatred is warranted. Because in reality, Crean is a good coach. A bit quirky, but what he did for our University was actually very appreciated by many.

All That What GIF by chelsiekenyon

  • Like 3
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, IUaic said:

Name 1 player that transferred from IU during Crean's tenure that went elsewhere and did anything. You can make an argument that he recruited over too much, but the players that transferred weren't huge losses. You are making mountains out of molehills due to your hatred of him.

People like Painter because he isn't doing anything at Purdue. IF he had success, people would dislike him. Purdue basketball has no expectations and he is delivering just that.

 

It’s easy to say that all the kids that transferred out didn’t add up to anything when 2/3 of the kids he brought in were mediocre players at best. Crean either crushed it or he either failed miserably with kids. Wasn’t too much in the middle. A LOT of misses. 

Edited by kyhoosier29
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, IU_Realist said:

Nobody has said he hasn’t develop players.  Crean kisses ass to people who help keep his wallet fat.  Shocker.  The next DWade, the next Oladipo, the next Antman, etc. I know an AAU coach who said this one time.  “I tell my kids when they choose a school....look at how the coach treats his best player, his worst players and his walkons....you don’t know which one you will be.”  

This is Crean’s problem.  If you aren’t a top kid, you are dispensable to him.  Why do you think he has ALWAYS had trouble with transfers and coaches like Painter doesn’t.  People that matter like Painter.  People that matter don’t like Crean.  

That statement is idiotic. This is big boy athletics. You don't treat all your players the same...and while you should never treat people poorly I don't get why you would think a kid doesn't know where he stands when he joins a team. If you are a top 50 kid you know your role...and if you are a 3 star kid that will have to work to get minutes you know that role too. You OBVIOUSLY know if you are a walk on you are COMPLETELY dispensable. Kids can come in and compete and some will exceed expectations and some won't but to act like you don't know where you stand with a coach and have any expectations of what your role in the program will be is just dumb. In the end winning is what matters to college coaches and if you can't or don't help a coach with that then sure he is going to replace you....why wouldn't he. Of course he is going to recruit over you...and if you aren't helping the team then he is going to stick you at the end of the bench and hope you transfer out. What incentive does a coach have to play a BAD player. It's on the KID to make himself indispensable. Just because he received a scholarship doesn't entitle him to anything as far as his career goes.

There are so many factors when accepting a scholarship and choosing a program and of course your relationship with your coach matters tremendously but let's not act like coaches are some how expected to be virtuous and sunday school teachers and treat everyone equally. This is a results driven organization and should and is run like one. Look at Cal...you think he treats his 5* kids the same way his 3* kids?? You think Boston deserved all the playing time he got last year despite how poorly he played?? You think Coach K treats kids the same no matter what role they have on the team? I don't know what the deal is with Crean. I sure know he had his struggles here and people have pointed them out pretty clearly but I don't think the issue was that he treated his players poorly. Kids he pressured out were kids that were borderline talent...he honestly did the best thing for them in asking them to go play somewhere else. They couldn't cut it! When you make a mistake (recruit a kid that had no business getting recruited or over valued one) then don't double down on it and think well I'll just make the most of it..no cut your losses and move on. Why risk your teams success, your job, and the programs success on a kid that isn't meeting expectations? Sure its ugly...it hurts..but that is LIFE. There are no participation trophy's in the REAL WORLD....at least not yet that I've come across. You succeed or you move on. Sometimes moving on and the pain and learning that comes from that will inspire or teach a kid something that will lead to their success. Anyways, I've had my issues with Crean but mostly for the on the court performance...as far as the guy himself goes...I've never considered him a bad person. Maybe it's all in the eye of the beholder....many of my favorite teachers were despised by other kids...and it wasn't because the teachers played favorite...I liked them because they held me accountable and really pushed me to learn....most kids hated that....guess it's the perspective of the evaluator I suppose.

Edited by dgambill
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, BGleas said:

Yogi was on the Hoosier Hysterics podcast this week and had a lot of good things to say about Crean. 

This idea that Crean didn't develop his NBA guys or help players get to the NBA is crazy. 

3 hours ago, IU_Realist said:

Nobody has said he hasn’t develop players.  Crean kisses ass to people who help keep his wallet fat.  Shocker.  The next DWade, the next Oladipo, the next Antman, etc. I know an AAU coach who said this one time.  “I tell my kids when they choose a school....look at how the coach treats his best player, his worst players and his walkons....you don’t know which one you will be.”  

This is Crean’s problem.  If you aren’t a top kid, you are dispensable to him.  Why do you think he has ALWAYS had trouble with transfers and coaches like Painter doesn’t.  People that matter like Painter.  People that matter don’t like Crean.  

A former player who transferred out left b/c of the bolded parts. He said Crean catered to his star players (he played with Yogi) and took out his frustrations on the non-stars (even sometimes for things the star players did), so I'm not surprised that Yogi would have good things to say about him. He gave the keys to Yogi for 3 years and let him do what he wanted (1 excellent year and 2 mediocre years team-wise). 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

It’s easy to say that all the kids that transferred out didn’t add up to anything when 2/3 of the kids he brought in were mediocre players at best. Crean either crushed it or he either failed miserably with kids. Wasn’t too much in the middle. A LOT of misses. 

Only went back 8 years. Didn’t feel like he should get penalized for the first two classes given the situation. 

Elston, Creek, Hulls, Watford (4 for 4)

Oladipo, Sheehey (2/2)

Abell, Etherington, Zeller (1/3)

Yogi, Hollowell, Jurkin, Perea, Patterson (1/5) - Disaster

Devin Davis, Fischer, Hartman (+), Robinson, Vonleh (+1/2), Williams (+), Ev Gordon (2.5/7) - Vonleh is a half bc he was a poor teammate, not the type of kids we want

April, Blackmon JR (+) Zeisloft (+) Hoetzel, Holt, RJ (+) Priller (3/7)

Bielfeldt, OG, Bryant, Morgan (4/4)

McSwain (+), Newkirk (+), DeRon (+), Gelon, Green (+), Jones (4/6)

22/38 is 58%, so almost 1 out of every 2 CTC recruited was a bad move. I gave NV full credit in my calculation, but I could argue that a few of the guys I have pluses to are generous. This isn’t to beat a dead horse or crap on CTC, but I felt the need to back up my claim. I appreciate CTC taking the daunting challenge that he did and giving it his best, but it just wasn’t anywhere near good enough. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, cybergates said:

A former player who transferred out left b/c of the bolded parts. He said Crean catered to his star players (he played with Yogi) and took out his frustrations on the non-stars (even sometimes for things the star players did), so I'm not surprised that Yogi would have good things to say about him. He gave the keys to Yogi for 3 years and let him do what he wanted (1 excellent year and 2 mediocre years team-wise). 

 

 

As a poster stated previously, "welcome to big boy sports". It's similar to the real world, not everyone gets treated the same. 

Yogi had equity built up with the coaches. There's a reason he's #1 in assists and #6 in scoring in IU history, he was a great player. Coaches trust their great players and they sometimes (most of the time really) get treated differently. 

The best 2-3 players on most any team are going to have leeway that the 7-10th guys on the team don't have. Your 2nd best player can come down and jack a bad shot and then turn the ball over the next possession and probably not get taken out, whereas your 8th man comes in and does the same thing and he's getting yanked immediately. 

Some guys can understand those roles and some can't. The ones that can't or think they're miscast in that role are going to be disgruntled and potential transfer candidates. 

This is exactly why I always take it with a massive grain of salt when a rumor comes out that players hate a certain coach. Well, it depends on who those players are. What was their role and how did they accept it?

Every coach in the world is going to have a subset of his players that hate him. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

As a poster stated previously, "welcome to big boy sports". It's similar to the real world, not everyone gets treated the same. 

Yogi had equity built up with the coaches. There's a reason he's #1 in assists and #6 in scoring in IU history, he was a great player. Coaches trust their great players and they sometimes (most of the time really) get treated differently. 

The best 2-3 players on most any team are going to have leeway that the 7-10th guys on the team don't have. Your 2nd best player can come down and jack a bad shot and then turn the ball over the next possession and probably not get taken out, whereas your 8th man comes in and does the same thing and he's getting yanked immediately. 

Some guys can understand those roles and some can't. The ones that can't or think they're miscast in that role are going to be disgruntled and potential transfer candidates. 

This is exactly why I always take it with a massive grain of salt when a rumor comes out that players hate a certain coach. Well, it depends on who those players are. What was their role and how did they accept it?

Every coach in the world is going to have a subset of his players that hate him. 

"The secret of successful managing is to keep the five guys who hate you away from the four guys who haven't made up their minds."

Casey Stengel

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Only went back 8 years. Didn’t feel like he should get penalized for the first two classes given the situation. 

Elston, Creek, Hulls, Watford (4 for 4)

Oladipo, Sheehey (2/2)

Abell, Etherington, Zeller (1/3)

Yogi, Hollowell, Jurkin, Perea, Patterson (1/5) - Disaster

Devin Davis, Fischer, Hartman (+), Robinson, Vonleh (+1/2), Williams (+), Ev Gordon (2.5/7) - Vonleh is a half bc he was a poor teammate, not the type of kids we want

April, Blackmon JR (+) Zeisloft (+) Hoetzel, Holt, RJ (+) Priller (3/7)

Bielfeldt, OG, Bryant, Morgan (4/4)

McSwain (+), Newkirk (+), DeRon (+), Gelon, Green (+), Jones (4/6)

22/38 is 58%, so almost 1 out of every 2 CTC recruited was a bad move. I gave NV full credit in my calculation, but I could argue that a few of the guys I have pluses to are generous. This isn’t to beat a dead horse or crap on CTC, but I felt the need to back up my claim. I appreciate CTC taking the daunting challenge that he did and giving it his best, but it just wasn’t anywhere near good enough. 

 

 

From your list, the only misses that I see, i.e. recruits that should never have been offered a scholarship are:

Jurkin, Devin Davis, Evan Gordon was a senior transfer - not sure I would put him in this category - but ok, April, Hoetzel, Priller, and Gelon.

That is 7 out of 38 that would probably be considered recruiting misses.

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

http://kentsterling.com/2017/02/16/indiana-basketball-is-tom-crean-the-right-coach-for-indiana-in-2017-2018-iubb/

Just one of several articles easily found that suggests that Crean had "burned bridges" with high school and summer ball coaches.

Kent Sterling also said Brad Stevens was house hunting in Bloomington.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, IUaic said:

From your list, the only misses that I see, i.e. recruits that should never have been offered a scholarship are:

Jurkin, Devin Davis, Evan Gordon was a senior transfer - not sure I would put him in this category - but ok, April, Hoetzel, Priller, and Gelon.

That is 7 out of 38 that would probably be considered recruiting misses.

Really? You’re sticking with that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, cybergates said:

A former player who transferred out left b/c of the bolded parts. He said Crean catered to his star players (he played with Yogi) and took out his frustrations on the non-stars (even sometimes for things the star players did), so I'm not surprised that Yogi would have good things to say about him. He gave the keys to Yogi for 3 years and let him do what he wanted (1 excellent year and 2 mediocre years team-wise). 

 

 

Maybe that player was soft? His opinion doesn't make it the gospel. Yogi's SR year team was loaded, so I doubt we missed the player who transferred. This is really grasping for straws because one player transferred because of this.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also....I want to expand upon the "Crean burned bridges with high school and AAU coaches".

You can bring up Indiana kids that Crean missed on and that is fair, however, Crean wasn't going to wash these kids feet like they were the next coming of Christ like their coaches thought. So yeah I am sure some 'conversations' were had with 'reporters' stating that they didn't like Crean blah blah. That may be accurate, but there's a reason for that. Overall, Crean was highly liked around the state. Coaches begged him to come see their players.

Without naming names, these players went to MSU, UM, Xavier.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, IUaic said:

So, just because they transferred, you consider them a miss?

No, but it’s about recruiting guys that fit your system and help the team win or at least have a positive impact. You can’t seriously believe that Etherington, Hollowell, Patterson, Perea or Dev. Davis to name a few had positive impacts. And if they didn’t, they weren’t the right fit or Crean wasn’t able to pull it out of them. So, yes they were recruiting misses. It’s not about the *** next to their names. It’s about the results.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, kyhoosier29 said:

No, but it’s about recruiting guys that fit your system and help the team win or at least have a positive impact. You can’t seriously believe that Etherington, Hollowell, Patterson, Perea or Dev. Davis to name a few had positive impacts. And if they didn’t, they weren’t the right fit or Crean wasn’t able to pull it out of them. So, yes they were recruiting misses. It’s not about the *** next to their names. It’s about the results.

Patterson did not get his grades in order. He had the same path as Deron Davis, had the summer between HS and College to finish up course work. Deron did, Patterson did not. Why do you continue to blame Crean for that? If Crean could have or would have arranged a tutor for him, you would have b!tched about him cheating to get Patterson eligible.

No. I don't consider Etherington, Hollowell, Perea, or Davis recruiting misses. Just because they didn't play as well as you thought they should have, does not make them misses. No coach bats 1.000 in recruiting, but Crean had waaaaay more recruiting successes, than misses, just like most coaches. 

But you continue to focus on the negatives.

Edited by IUaic
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...