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Kaleb Banks (2022) Commits to Indiana!


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4 hours ago, dgambill said:

Well...we have one in Tamar Bates....and I'm hoping we can land another like JHS....but as of yet we just haven't made that leap to a class full of top 50 kids. I do hope we live there in the near future as well but for now we are going to have to make our bread and butter developing kids in the 75-150 range (4 yr kids). The past 5-6 years we couldn't even develop those kids into major contributors so I'll start my way there and build on that. Player development has been a major disappointment in my eyes under Archie. I don't see a big separation in most high 3-4 middle star kids. Identifying the ones that can make that leap or have that drive is what we need. We should always be able to sprinkle in those top 25-30 talents along the way with our brand. We just haven't surrounded them with guys that are able to compliment them in the past.

You don’t think Franklin, Thompson, Leal, and Geronimo got better under Archie? I’m sure I’m missing some off the top of my head as well. It’s easy to pile on Archie now that he’s gone, but let’s call a spade a spade. We did not have a lethal shooter when he was here (and I’d argue that’s NOT something that can be developed).  That was the one glaring hole and he was responsible for that. We can probably argue that he didn’t do a good job of motivating / instilling confidence, etc as well, but our struggles weren’t due to a lack of open shots or poor defense. Our best player missed more bunnies than anybody in college basketball.  I could also argue on the opposite side that we were very unlucky with injuries and in-game luck. Not sure how Pomeroy calculates his statistics but if I’m remembering correctly we were towards the bottom in luck factor. 
 

CMW has done everything right so far, but until we see the product on the floor we’re sitting in a pretty similar boat personnel wise as we have in the past if we didn’t have a wide open transfer portal. Hopefully CMW’s style of play, coaching adjustments, reputation, access to the transfer portal, etc. are the difference moving forward. The players certainly seem more excited and confident about CMW, but these same players weren’t very accountable last year… which showed in the inability to hit open shots and make FTs. Hopefully CMW will demand accountability and won’t have to put up with guys that aren’t willing to put the work in. 

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1 hour ago, kyhoosier29 said:

You don’t think Franklin, Thompson, Leal, and Geronimo got better under Archie?

Leal and Thompson were freshmen last year so I wouldn't say they got better because of Miller. They got better as the year went on but that happens for most freshmen as they acclimate to the college game.

Thompson certainly improved, it just took 4 years to get there.

Franklin made a large jump between freshman and sophomore seasons but from reading an article (I believe TDH) it sounds like Miller had very little to do with that improvement. This was the player that probably had the biggest improvement from one year to the next in Miller's tenure. The other players had small, incremental improvements and the team and players both tended to regress as the seasons progressed.

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19 hours ago, kyhoosier29 said:

You don’t think Franklin, Thompson, Leal, and Geronimo got better under Archie? I’m sure I’m missing some off the top of my head as well. It’s easy to pile on Archie now that he’s gone, but let’s call a spade a spade. We did not have a lethal shooter when he was here (and I’d argue that’s NOT something that can be developed).  That was the one glaring hole and he was responsible for that. We can probably argue that he didn’t do a good job of motivating / instilling confidence, etc as well, but our struggles weren’t due to a lack of open shots or poor defense. Our best player missed more bunnies than anybody in college basketball.  I could also argue on the opposite side that we were very unlucky with injuries and in-game luck. Not sure how Pomeroy calculates his statistics but if I’m remembering correctly we were towards the bottom in luck factor. 
 

CMW has done everything right so far, but until we see the product on the floor we’re sitting in a pretty similar boat personnel wise as we have in the past if we didn’t have a wide open transfer portal. Hopefully CMW’s style of play, coaching adjustments, reputation, access to the transfer portal, etc. are the difference moving forward. The players certainly seem more excited and confident about CMW, but these same players weren’t very accountable last year… which showed in the inability to hit open shots and make FTs. Hopefully CMW will demand accountability and won’t have to put up with guys that aren’t willing to put the work in. 

I didn't see a whole lot of improvement in our players no. I looked at Justin Smith across his career and didn't see much improvement other than what comes naturally with getting older and having experience. Same with Al. Same with Green. Same with Rob. I saw some improvement with Race...but again more to do with opportunity and his physical growth...he never showed a jump shot. No one ever got significantly better shooting. Trayce didn't really take a big leap. Could he even hit a 15 footer by year two? Our freshman last year...Lander??, Leal???, are you telling me Galloway was better at the end of the year then the beginning...because I sure didn't see a leap. Franklin I'll give you credit for. Is he the norm or is he the outlier under Archie??? There is always some natural progression from getting older, stronger, and more experience but for the most part I stand by my analysis and you may disagree with me and that is perfectly fine....but Archie did not do a very good job of developing our guys offensively.

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26 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I didn't see a whole lot of improvement in our players no. I looked at Justin Smith across his career and didn't see much improvement other than what comes naturally with getting older and having experience. Same with Al. Same with Green. Same with Rob. I saw some improvement with Race...but again more to do with opportunity and his physical growth...he never showed a jump shot. No one ever got significantly better shooting. Trayce didn't really take a big leap. Could he even hit a 15 footer by year two? Our freshman last year...Lander??, Leal???, are you telling me Galloway was better at the end of the year then the beginning...because I sure didn't see a leap. Franklin I'll give you credit for. Is he the norm or is he the outlier under Archie??? There is always some natural progression from getting older, stronger, and more experience but for the most part I stand by my analysis and you may disagree with me and that is perfectly fine....but Archie did not do a very good job of developing our guys offensively.

You named three players Crean recruited who we wouldn’t even touch with CMW recruiting. You wanted CAM to take chicken crap and make chicken salad? Rob has been hurt A LOT the last two years. Race definitely improved all around. Not sure you have an argument on that one. You wanted TJD to become an all-American, not all Big10? That’s nit picking. He’s never had a shot, and you wanted CAM to create one for him. We’ll see what CMW can do, but again, no coach is taking somebody with limited capabilities in a certain area and turning them into something completely different. Slightly improved? Maybe. Leal absolutely got better all-around. Galloway was hurt half the year. I’ll give you Lander I guess, but I’d argue the kid should have stayed in high school on regular schedule. Again, it’s easy to throw everything at CAM now that he’s gone, and I’ll concede CAM failed at bringing in shooters and keeping the team focused with the same goals, but your argument is completely void of any player accountability / responsibility. Race, TJD, Lander…. The entire team from a FT perspective should have been in the gym every free second they had shooting. That’s how they get better. Can’t expect a college coach to change a college kid’s shot. Minimal advice? Maybe, but completely changing a shot at that age could take years. CAM didn’t get the job done, bottom line, but I think it’s crazy to throw everything at him. Player accountability, lack of support from the beginning, COVID (in his first major gig), and a lot of injuries are just a few things he had to deal with … a lot of variables. I’m glad CMW is here, but I’m not going to keep throwing unwarranted shade at CAM. I could quite easily argue that TJD (while carrying us at times) cost us a couple games by missing bunnies. A few game swing and things may have been slightly different. Again, everything at the end of the day falls on CAM for not getting it done, but there’s plenty of responsibly to throw around if we want to be honest. 

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1 hour ago, kyhoosier29 said:

You named three players Crean recruited who we wouldn’t even touch with CMW recruiting. You wanted CAM to take chicken crap and make chicken salad? Rob has been hurt A LOT the last two years. Race definitely improved all around. Not sure you have an argument on that one. You wanted TJD to become an all-American, not all Big10? That’s nit picking. He’s never had a shot, and you wanted CAM to create one for him. We’ll see what CMW can do, but again, no coach is taking somebody with limited capabilities in a certain area and turning them into something completely different. Slightly improved? Maybe. Leal absolutely got better all-around. Galloway was hurt half the year. I’ll give you Lander I guess, but I’d argue the kid should have stayed in high school on regular schedule. Again, it’s easy to throw everything at CAM now that he’s gone, and I’ll concede CAM failed at bringing in shooters and keeping the team focused with the same goals, but your argument is completely void of any player accountability / responsibility. Race, TJD, Lander…. The entire team from a FT perspective should have been in the gym every free second they had shooting. That’s how they get better. Can’t expect a college coach to change a college kid’s shot. Minimal advice? Maybe, but completely changing a shot at that age could take years. CAM didn’t get the job done, bottom line, but I think it’s crazy to throw everything at him. Player accountability, lack of support from the beginning, COVID (in his first major gig), and a lot of injuries are just a few things he had to deal with … a lot of variables. I’m glad CMW is here, but I’m not going to keep throwing unwarranted shade at CAM. I could quite easily argue that TJD (while carrying us at times) cost us a couple games by missing bunnies. A few game swing and things may have been slightly different. Again, everything at the end of the day falls on CAM for not getting it done, but there’s plenty of responsibly to throw around if we want to be honest. 

We just disagree. I've seen very little improvement from any of our players from day 1 under CAM to the day he left. Doesn't matter if it was someone else's guy or not. If players were improving under Archie our record wouldn't have gotten worse as time went on. You point to Race but did Race ever develop a jump shot? He actually shot a worse ft% last year from the previous. His stats went up because he played more...and he got marginally better but how much of that was coaching and how much was it a guy that is simply getting older. stronger, more experienced? I didn't see Trayce add a single thing to his game. Not just jumper, not a right hand, his fg% went down, his ft% went down, his turnovers doubled....I'm not expecting great players to take huge leaps but it's about adding a little something every year, taking a step forward. I don't know what you saw but Leal scored 5pts in the last 7 games of the year. He literally did not score in 13 of 20 games last year that he even played in. How did he improve his offense?? In fact the last 6 games of the year he didn't even play more than 8 minutes after averaging around 15 minutes a game the previous 14. What measures are you using to say these guys improved and maybe I can agree on something. I really would like to. Galloway fell off too. Was Rob healthy last year or not??? If he was then why has he regressed in basically everything he can be measured in? I'm not throwing everything at him...all I am saying is that the only way Woody does better is if he does a better job developing his players. Archie owns the last 4 years...and they were a failure no matter how you look at it...there is no arguing that. Recruiting, teaching, growth, winning...poor by Indiana standards. If the kids are responsible for their own growth then he recruited them...but what is the point of a coach if he isn't there to make them better...and he didn't. The whole point is in the end Woody will only be successful in which he can succeed where Archie failed. If he can't take these guys or similar quality players in the 75-150 range and develop them into much better basketball players than what we've been getting lately....he is going to be a mediocre coach too. Of course there will always be the couple guys that will come in and be a success mostly on their own but where the rubber meets the road is with the majority of the roster who will have talent but need to be cultivated to be successful. I guess I should just leave it at that...no way no how after what I've witnessed after the last 4 years I can be convinced that I just had it all wrong with the Coaching job Archie Miller did here. I wasn't even saying anything bad or nasty...just he failed at that aspect....defensively a lot of the players very very much improved. Physically a lot of the players got much stronger and developed....offensively....not so much.

Edited by dgambill
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I certainly fill much more confident about this kid then Gunn....and I'm not hating on Gunn just I think he is a bigger project and might have further to go. Not sure what there is to complain about. If a higher level recruit is still interested...it isn't like Banks would scare them off a top recruit. I do think he is under rated at this point but I do see how he should fit into the program so I'll let it play out. If after a few years we aren't making improvement in the program then I'll grow concerned.

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On 7/27/2021 at 11:20 AM, kyhoosier29 said:

We’ve seen flashes of positivity from JG, but I don’t have much confidence he’s absolutely going to be a big contributor this year. Believe it when I see it. 

I’m not saying they’re in any way connected, or that their talent, potential and strengths/weaknesses are in any way similar, but Vic’s freshman season could be described as “flashes of potential” as well. 

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6 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

I’m not saying they’re in any way connected, or that their talent, potential and strengths/weaknesses are in any way similar, but Vic’s freshman season could be described as “flashes of potential” as well. 

Very FEW guys come in as a sleeper 3 star like Vic and end up a lottery pick. We saw potential from JG, but there’s a lot of people resting their hats on him!

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  • 4 weeks later...
1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

It's interesting looking at how current and previous recruits moved in the rankings.

Misses:

Filipowski +43

Skyy Clark -6

Bruce Thornton -21

Rodney Rice +13

Jalen Washington -24

Isaac McKneely +3

Alex Karaban +66 

 

Still uncommitted:

Malik Reneau +5

Noah Clowney +12

Rodney Rice +13 (I think he is no longer an option)

Kamari Lands -22 (I'm not sure if IU was/is recruiting but I have seen the name around)

Brice Sensabaugh From NR to 79 (I think he is no longer an option)

Shawn Phillips -56 (No longer an option)

 

Landed:

Jalen Hood-Schifino +12

Kaleb Banks +8

C.J. Gunn NR (I don't know where Rivals previously had him or if they even ranked him before)

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