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Michael Durr Commits to IU


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15 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Unless Geronimo makes a huge jump or Mike Woodson decides to start a small ball lineup with Kopp at the 4 and TJD at the 5, there are going to be non-shooters starting at both forward spots.

I assumed this would be the case when we got Kopp. Three guards (take your pick) plus Kopp and TJD.

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Sounds like the big man is confident that he can take his game to another level.  I like that.  

However thinking that B1G won't salavitate at the idea of a 20% three point shooter chucking away is misguided.  That's not respectable.  That's the guy you give 10 feet and clog the lane.  We just went through 3 or 4 seasons of that.  Smh

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11 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I'm personally not too worried about what he did at NU. They had a limited roster and in order to maximize talent that meant a lot of time playing the three. 

The 3 was definitely their thinnest spot. Kopp led the team in mpg. Most of the time when they rested Kopp, they'd bring in Gaines, Berry, or Greer and push Audige to the 3.

My concern for Kopp is the loss of confidence. His last 9 games he shot 33% overall, and 20% from 3. It was speculated that he had some injury issue (finger on non-shooting hand), but it wasn't like he didn't get time (32 mpg) or shots (10 attempts per game) during that time. 

I know some have speculated his role will be different and we won't rely on his scoring as much as Northwestern did, but we will be relying on him hitting shots at his pre slump rate if he's going to be effective for us.

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53 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

The 3 was definitely their thinnest spot. Kopp led the team in mpg. Most of the time when they rested Kopp, they'd bring in Gaines, Berry, or Greer and push Audige to the 3.

My concern for Kopp is the loss of confidence. His last 9 games he shot 33% overall, and 20% from 3. It was speculated that he had some injury issue (finger on non-shooting hand), but it wasn't like he didn't get time (32 mpg) or shots (10 attempts per game) during that time. 

I know some have speculated his role will be different and we won't rely on his scoring as much as Northwestern did, but we will be relying on him hitting shots at his pre slump rate if he's going to be effective for us.

The good news is we have Bates, Stewart, Leal, and Galloway all capable of playing minutes at the 3. Nothing says we can't have multiple pgs in the back court at any given time and go 3 guard lineup...and surely the Trey and Anthony will give us more consistent play in their sophomore campaign. Miller I expect to have a nice role for us...but we have others that are capable of filling it if we need.

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1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

The 3 was definitely their thinnest spot. Kopp led the team in mpg. Most of the time when they rested Kopp, they'd bring in Gaines, Berry, or Greer and push Audige to the 3.

My concern for Kopp is the loss of confidence. His last 9 games he shot 33% overall, and 20% from 3. It was speculated that he had some injury issue (finger on non-shooting hand), but it wasn't like he didn't get time (32 mpg) or shots (10 attempts per game) during that time. 

I know some have speculated his role will be different and we won't rely on his scoring as much as Northwestern did, but we will be relying on him hitting shots at his pre slump rate if he's going to be effective for us.

9 games is nothing though when you look at someone's career as a whole. They just happen to be the most recent 9 games. 

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30 minutes ago, btownqb said:

9 games is nothing though when you look at someone's career as a whole. They just happen to be the most recent 9 games. 

Maybe...I hope he can come out of it...

But I've seen others who, once they lost confidence, they never got it back..

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2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

The 3 was definitely their thinnest spot. Kopp led the team in mpg. Most of the time when they rested Kopp, they'd bring in Gaines, Berry, or Greer and push Audige to the 3.

My concern for Kopp is the loss of confidence. His last 9 games he shot 33% overall, and 20% from 3. It was speculated that he had some injury issue (finger on non-shooting hand), but it wasn't like he didn't get time (32 mpg) or shots (10 attempts per game) during that time. 

I know some have speculated his role will be different and we won't rely on his scoring as much as Northwestern did, but we will be relying on him hitting shots at his pre slump rate if he's going to be effective for us.

I have no concern about his shooting. I realize he went into a slump, but I've got 75 games of data to say he is a good shooter and that those 9 games are an aberration on a bad team that was in a slump. 

Nick Zeisloft saw his numbers sky rocket when he changed to a better situation, I expect Kopp to do the same. Maybe not to that level, but I expect him to shoot in the 40s from three. 

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1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

I have no concern about his shooting. I realize he went into a slump, but I've got 75 games of data to say he is a good shooter and that those 9 games are an aberration on a bad team that was in a slump. 

Nick Zeisloft saw his numbers sky rocket when he changed to a better situation, I expect Kopp to do the same. Maybe not to that level, but I expect him to shoot in the 40s from three. 

I certainly hope so...The guy I watched at the end of last year was really struggling...And you could tell it was affecting him...

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3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I certainly hope so...The guy I watched at the end of last year was really struggling...And you could tell it was affecting him...

I would be more upset if it didn't bother a competitive kid to be in a slump. 

Any person, in any role, can always just hit a rut and never get out of it. That's true in sports, business, and in life, but why would you ever expect that someone is just going to lose whatever it is that makes them special at what they do? 

 

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1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

I would be more upset if it didn't bother a competitive kid to be in a slump. 

Any person, in any role, can always just hit a rut and never get out of it. That's true in sports, business, and in life, but why would you ever expect that someone is just going to lose whatever it is that makes them special at what they do? 

 

On the other hand, we can’t be entirely sure whether his sophomore year was the outlier.  He was a subpar three point shooter his freshman year as well, in a not small sample size (23/72, 31.9%).

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Just now, KoB2011 said:

I would be more upset if it didn't bother a competitive kid to be in a slump. 

Any person, in any role, can always just hit a rut and never get out of it. That's true in sports, business, and in life, but why would you ever expect that someone is just going to lose whatever it is that makes them special at what they do? 

 

Where did I say I "expected it?"

I said confidence is a funny thing...It can come and go...Sometimes it can go forever (see Rick Ankiel))...

I watched probably half of Northwestern's games last year, and he was very good in some...Toward the end though, it was tough to watch...He'd miss, and he'd just keep on shooting...Collins kept his faith in Kopp, but he was never able to work his way out of it...

Kopp is limited as a basketball player (as was Jerome Hunter)...If he's not shooting well, he's not good enough in other phases of the game to stay on the floor...

I hope the change of scenery does him good...We'll see I guess...

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2 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

On the other hand, we can’t be entirely sure whether his sophomore year was the outlier.  He was a subpar three point shooter his freshman year as well, in a not small sample size (23/72, 31.9%).

I'm not looking at just his sophomore year, but thanks. I literally said the 75 games prior to that 9 game stretch. 

In the first 77 games of his career he was a 39% three point shooter on 3.8 attempts per game. In his sophomore year, which you brought up, and his junior year prior to the slump, he was shooting 41% on 4.8 attempts per game. 

None of that guarantees success moving forward, we all get that. But it doesn't take a math major to understand that those 77 games are probably a better indicator of him as a player than the 9 games he most recently played in a terrible situation with a possible injury. 

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1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

Where did I say I "expected it?"

I said confidence is a funny thing...It can come and go...Sometimes it can go forever (see Rick Ankiel))...

I watched probably half of Northwestern's games last year, and he was very good in some...Toward the end though, it was tough to watch...He'd miss, and he'd just keep on shooting...Collins kept his faith in Kopp, but he was never able to work his way out of it...

Kopp is limited as a basketball player (as was Jerome Hunter)...If he's not shooting well, he's not good enough in other phases of the game to stay on the floor...

I hope the change of scenery does him good...We'll see I guess...

You didn't say you expected it, but when you repeatedly make the same point it has the same effect as saying it outright. Picking an absolute outlier like Rick Ankiel doesn't have the impact you think it does; it shows how silly it is to think that's what we should prepare for. How could any organization anywhere function if they think people are just going to lose skills they've shown they have in the past?

Most basketball players are limited. One of the key things good teams and good coaches do is figure out how to maximize the strengths of their limited role players. It's why a guy like Steve Novak could have a very important role under Mike Woodson in the past. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

You didn't say you expected it, but when you repeatedly make the same point it has the same effect as saying it outright. Picking an absolute outlier like Rick Ankiel doesn't have the impact you think it does; it shows how silly it is to think that's what we should prepare for. How could any organization anywhere function if they think people are just going to lose skills they've shown they have in the past?

Most basketball players are limited. One of the key things good teams and good coaches do is figure out how to maximize the strengths of their limited role players. It's why a guy like Steve Novak could have a very important role under Mike Woodson in the past. 

 

 

You're kind of stretching here...I provided Ankiel as an example of how fragile confidence can be...In no way did I say Kopp would wind up like that...Ankiel is the extreme end of the spectrum...For you to insinuate that I'm saying "that's what we should prepare for" is silly...

The point I'm making is that while Miller Kopp has shown he can shoot the basketball at a 40% clip, there are no guarantees...He needs to regain his confidence...And I hope Coach Woodson can help him there...

 @FW_Hoosier brought up a good point...As a freshman, Kopp shot 32% from 3...Sophomore 40%...Junior 33%...

So which year is really the outlier?

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5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

You're kind of stretching here...I provided Ankiel as an example of how fragile confidence can be...In no way did I say Kopp would wind up like that...Ankiel is the extreme end of the spectrum...For you to insinuate that I'm saying "that's what we should prepare for" is silly...

The point I'm making is that while Miller Kopp has shown he can shoot the basketball at a 40% clip, there are no guarantees...He needs to regain his confidence...And I hope Coach Woodson can help him there...

 @FW_Hoosier brought up a good point...As a freshman, Kopp shot 32% from 3...Sophomore 40%...Junior 33%...

So which year is really the outlier?

See the post that you intentionally ignored, right below the post you're referencing.... 

25 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I'm not looking at just his sophomore year, but thanks. I literally said the 75 games prior to that 9 game stretch. 

In the first 77 games of his career he was a 39% three point shooter on 3.8 attempts per game. In his sophomore year, which you brought up, and his junior year prior to the slump, he was shooting 41% on 4.8 attempts per game. 

None of that guarantees success moving forward, we all get that. But it doesn't take a math major to understand that those 77 games are probably a better indicator of him as a player than the 9 games he most recently played in a terrible situation with a possible injury. 

 

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23 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I'm not looking at just his sophomore year, but thanks. I literally said the 75 games prior to that 9 game stretch. 

In the first 77 games of his career he was a 39% three point shooter on 3.8 attempts per game. In his sophomore year, which you brought up, and his junior year prior to the slump, he was shooting 41% on 4.8 attempts per game. 

None of that guarantees success moving forward, we all get that. But it doesn't take a math major to understand that those 77 games are probably a better indicator of him as a player than the 9 games he most recently played in a terrible situation with a possible injury. 

Touchy, lol.  As with all data, it all depends on which data set you want to look at.

Of course you can make a strong argument that he’ll shoot 40% from three if you only look at the games where he shot around 40% from three.

And you can just as easily say that in a 56 game sample size during his freshman and junior years, he’s only shot 32.6% from three (57/175).

Lies, damn lies, statistics, etc.

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6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

See the post that you intentionally ignored, right below the post you're referencing.... 

 

No, I saw it...

Look, we all want the kid to get his stroke back and be a dependable shooter in Woody's offense...If he is, I think we'll be top 3 in the B1G...

No one wants him to fail or "expects" him to fail...I'll be happy as hell if he shoots 40% from 3...

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1 minute ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Touchy, lol.  As with all data, it all depends on which data set you want to look at.

Of course you can make a strong argument that he’ll shoot 40% from three if you only look at the games where he shot around 40% from three.

And you can just as easily say that in a 56 game sample size during his freshman and junior years, he’s only shot 32.6% from three (57/175).

Lies, damn lies, statistics, etc.

Yes, I'm touchy when people intentionally misrepresent things. People arguing in bad faith tends to break down good conversations in a hurry. You're a lawyer, I'm sure you get testy when people negotiate a contract in bad faith. 

Looking at the first 77 games of his career isn't cherry picking. I didn't isolate out good or bad stretches in that stretch, I just looked at how his career started before he got injured and played on a team that couldn't do anything to help him. You are the one trying to pick different groups of games and piece them together to fit your argument; either way, I'm out on this conversation. I think the data clearly shows Kopp can be counted on to be a good shooter, you and @IUFLA have made it pretty clear you don't think he can be counted on. Got it. 

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Just now, IUFLA said:

No, I saw it...

Look, we all want the kid to get his stroke back and be a dependable shooter in Woody's offense...If he is, I think we'll be top 3 in the B1G...

No one wants him to fail or "expects" him to fail...I'll be happy as hell if he shoots 40% from 3...

I know you saw it, you just intentionally ignored it. You can't honestly think looking at cherry picked stats from various stretches of his career is an equitable comparison to looking at the first 77 games of his career prior to the injury that you brought up, can you? 

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1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

Maybe...I hope he can come out of it...

But I've seen others who, once they lost confidence, they never got it back..

I’ve always been a believer that good coaching breeds confidence. We’re all a little skeptical of how Coach Woodson’s transition to the college will play out, if we’re being honest with ourselves. However, that being said… he has an outstanding staff capable of getting it done.

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Just now, KoB2011 said:

I know you saw it, you just intentionally ignored it. You can't honestly think looking at cherry picked stats from various stretches of his career is an equitable comparison to looking at the first 77 games of his career prior to the injury that you brought up, can you? 

I didn't ignore anything...He had one good year shooting the 3 sandwiched by 2 mediocre years...And there are a lot of things in play...Maybe B1G coaches defended him differently...Maybe the injury to his hand was a big factor...But the fact is, in actually his last 16 games last year he shot 33% from the field overall and 21% from 3...

Now, I'm not relying solely on statistics here either...I watched a lot of those games, and he absolutely killed his team in some of them...

12 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

you and @IUFLA have made it pretty clear you don't think he can be counted on.

I've said numerous times that I hope he can recover his confidence and be an asset to this team...Coach Woodson will assess that in practices and early games...

If he can't, we do, thankfully, have other alternatives...

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