jv1972iu Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 2 hours ago, tdhoosier said: some of them were. "stubbornness" was especially good...even if the voice in my head chose another word starting with "s". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, tdhoosier said: The point I'm making is that even if you weren't required to show proof of vaccination there are employers and even states that require vaccination in certain settings (note, these are flu vaccines, thus, not ass to mouth). And before COVID, nobody was crying about law suits or loss of liberties or governmental control. This leads me to believe that the rational of some to refuse vaccination is purely political. The shear act of rebellion or "not being told what to do" just for the sake of "not being told what to do" is trumping the benefit to one's self, to other's around them and to our economy. My neighbor and good friend told me directly that his choice not to get one is purely an act of principle and not about health. Deep down I just find that messed up and the epitome of stubbornness. Some may agree with my neighbor, but I'm not sure I can ever understand that rationale. Well before COVID government wasnt shuttering peoples businesses and imposing "rules" that weren't passed through the proper legislative process. Like California's balloon headed governor telling people they cant patron a restaurant but goes out to a fancy dinner in wine country maskless. That's what pisses people off. No doubt all aspects of this have been highly politicized to the point where I'm about to just tune it all out. As far as vaccines, I dont think a covid vaccine should be a condition for enrollment or employment. Let's be real, none of us has really lived through something like this. It hasn't fully played out yet but the Spanish Flu, the mother of all modern flu's fizzled out and is just part of seasonal flu season and I believe this will follow the same trajectory. Anyway, the required MMR,TB vaccines, look at the Rzero values(measles for example range from 3.7-203.3)compared to covid at R<1. That is why those vaccines are required especially since they affect kids and younger people much more. And the linked article is for hospital staff who deal with injured and immunocompromised people everday. So makes sense that would be a requirement for them but they know that going in. Edited May 25, 2021 by mrflynn03 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 This is not the article I read about mandatory vaccination, but it's along the same lines and gives employers thinking of requiring vaccination something to pause and consider: https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/careers/602003/can-your-boss-force-you-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccine As I stated earlier, I am vaccinated and my older employees are vaccinated. I will not require the remaining (younger) employees to be vaccinated due to liability concerns raised in the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 ...and I'm not going to "vaccine shame" anyone choosing not to be vaccinated. There are valid reasons for taking a pass, not the least of which is already having the virus and resultant antibodies. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: Well before COVID government wasnt shuttering peoples businesses and imposing "rules" that weren't passed through the proper legislative process. Like California's balloon headed governor telling people they cant patron a restaurant but goes out to a fancy dinner in wine country maskless. That's what pisses people off. No doubt all aspects of this have been highly politicized to the point where I'm about to just tune it all out. As far as vaccines, I dont think a covid vaccine should be a condition for enrollment or employment. Let's be real, none of us has really lived through something like this. It hasn't fully played out yet but the Spanish Flu, the mother of all modern flu's fizzled out and is just part of seasonal flu season and I believe this will follow the same trajectory. Anyway, the required MMR,TB vaccines, look at the Rzero values(measles for example range from 3.7-203.3)compared to covid at R<1. That is why those vaccines are required especially since they affect kids and younger people much more. And the linked article is for hospital staff who deal with injured and immunocompromised people everday. So makes sense that would be a requirement for them but they know that going in. Are you vaccinated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: This is not the article I read about mandatory vaccination, but it's along the same lines and gives employers thinking of requiring vaccination something to pause and consider: https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/careers/602003/can-your-boss-force-you-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccine As I stated earlier, I am vaccinated and my older employees are vaccinated. I will not require the remaining (younger) employees to be vaccinated due to liability concerns raised in the article. What happens to your thinking if the law requires a vaccination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 Just now, rico said: What happens to your thinking if the law requires a vaccination? I'm not a lawyer, but that would seem to absolve my (and/or my company's) liability. For whatever reason, the government appears very hesitant to mandate vaccination. If they felt 100% about it, you can bet it would have already been done. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 Just now, FKIM01 said: I'm not a lawyer, but that would seem to absolve my (and/or my company's) liability. For whatever reason, the government appears very hesitant to mandate vaccination. If they felt 100% about it, you can bet it would have already been done. Thank you for the reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: I'm not a lawyer, but that would seem to absolve my (and/or my company's) liability. For whatever reason, the government appears very hesitant to mandate vaccination. If they felt 100% about it, you can bet it would have already been done. Maybe this is why? 1976 vaccine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, rico said: Are you vaccinated? I am not. Not saying I will never get it but other than work I dont really interact with people and am required to wear a mask at work and they pay me handsomely so I dont complain. I have known 3 people who have had covid. I am not in an at risk group and take supplements for immune and overall health. No political or conspiracy reason, just dont feel I need it for my health. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 minute ago, mrflynn03 said: I am not. Not saying I will never get it but other than work I dont really interact with people and am required to wear a mask at work and they pay me handsomely so I dont complain. I have known 3 people who have had covid. I am not in an at risk group and take supplements for immune and overall health. No political or conspiracy reason, just dont feel I need it for my health. Fair enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 A met a guy who was 100 percent against the vaccine. Said he was not going to allow the government to tell him what to do. There are so.many examples I could have used to show how we all follow certain rules etc.. I asked if he wears a seat belt and he said yes but for years refused to for the same kind of reasons. I asked what made him change he said his son was killed in a car wreck not wearing a seat belt. I felt terrible and them said I get mine and wish everyone did the same so that I don't go through the pain that you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierFaithful Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 2 hours ago, mrflynn03 said: Well before COVID government wasnt shuttering peoples businesses and imposing "rules" that weren't passed through the proper legislative process. Like California's balloon headed governor telling people they cant patron a restaurant but goes out to a fancy dinner in wine country maskless. That's what pisses people off. No doubt all aspects of this have been highly politicized to the point where I'm about to just tune it all out. As far as vaccines, I dont think a covid vaccine should be a condition for enrollment or employment. Let's be real, none of us has really lived through something like this. It hasn't fully played out yet but the Spanish Flu, the mother of all modern flu's fizzled out and is just part of seasonal flu season and I believe this will follow the same trajectory. Anyway, the required MMR,TB vaccines, look at the Rzero values(measles for example range from 3.7-203.3)compared to covid at R<1. That is why those vaccines are required especially since they affect kids and younger people much more. And the linked article is for hospital staff who deal with injured and immunocompromised people everday. So makes sense that would be a requirement for them but they know that going in. Emphasis mine - the COVID r-naught was for most of the pandemic was above 1. If it was below 1, the cases wouldn't be spreading at all, the cases would have been decreasing. We obviously know that wasn't the case. You can view historical COVID r-naught values here: https://rt.live/. I did some quick math and the r-naught was above 1 in 40% of the days tracked here. And, remember folks - exponential growth is a MFer!! Read here: https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/exponential-growth-what-it-is-why-it-matters-and-how-to-spot-it/ Additionally, measles is more commonly accepted to have a range of 12-18 for the r-naught (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28757186/). Any r-naught above 1 is dangerous. Like, seriously, we all saw what a r-naught that averaged between 1.1 - 1.4 (when it was spreading, that is) could cause. Just because measles was worse doesn't mean COVID isn't dangerous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 14 hours ago, mrflynn03 said: I am not. Not saying I will never get it but other than work I dont really interact with people and am required to wear a mask at work and they pay me handsomely so I dont complain. I have known 3 people who have had covid. I am not in an at risk group and take supplements for immune and overall health. No political or conspiracy reason, just dont feel I need it for my health. This. I never understood why everyone else's health was my responsibility. I wanted my parents to get the vaccine, and they did. They're at risk. I am not, and I don't make it a habit of putting things in my body that I don't gain anything from. As far as IU goes.. I think it's a pretty ridiculous requirement. I assumed IU was part of the my body, my choice crowd. If this does continue, I hope IU is sued for discrimination. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 Just came across this... https://www.wane.com/news/indiana/what-does-indianas-new-vaccine-passport-law-do/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 16 hours ago, mrflynn03 said: Well before COVID government wasnt shuttering peoples businesses and imposing "rules" that weren't passed through the proper legislative process. Like California's balloon headed governor telling people they cant patron a restaurant but goes out to a fancy dinner in wine country maskless. That's what pisses people off. No doubt all aspects of this have been highly politicized to the point where I'm about to just tune it all out. As far as vaccines, I dont think a covid vaccine should be a condition for enrollment or employment. Let's be real, none of us has really lived through something like this. It hasn't fully played out yet but the Spanish Flu, the mother of all modern flu's fizzled out and is just part of seasonal flu season and I believe this will follow the same trajectory. Anyway, the required MMR,TB vaccines, look at the Rzero values(measles for example range from 3.7-203.3)compared to covid at R<1. That is why those vaccines are required especially since they affect kids and younger people much more. And the linked article is for hospital staff who deal with injured and immunocompromised people everday. So makes sense that would be a requirement for them but they know that going in. I'm not sure I get the point in reference to my reply. The first part has nothing to do with the conversation. And again, Just like the nurses who deal with immunocompromised people, there are employers who have their reasons for requiring vaccination. This is not to say all employers will or should, this was never my point. It's that there will be some and in the eyes of the law it's going to be hard to distinguish which employers have valid reasons and which don't. Will there be law suits? Probably. But I'm willing to bet that they side with companies because a) it's going to be hard to argue that COVID is not a community health threat and b) this would be seen as government over-stepping their role by imposing on company policies. Companies have lost a lot of money and they are behind on production due to outbreaks in their facilities. My industry has been slammed with supply issues and increased lead times that are traced back to an inconsistent work force. Outbreaks have hurt companies' bottom lines and has affected the supply of so many goods in so many industries. Is it a valid reason to argue that a healthy and vaccinated workforce is a needed step for some companies to dig themselves out of a hole? Is the government going to interfere with this? These are valid questions, and for most companies a decision to mandate vaccination will not be a political decision, it will be a financial or health related decision. All that I'm saying is that it is a slippery slope and these lawsuits/drafted letters shared on social media as memes will not have much affect on a judicial decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 I got the vaccine. The ladies actually think the third nipple is cool, but the hair on my tongue is a big turn off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, 5fouls said: I got the vaccine. The ladies actually think the third nipple is cool, but the hair on my tongue is a big turn off. Reminds me of a classic joke about the lady that got some hormone injections to pump up her breast so to speak, the Dr noticed some hair growing between them and asked how far it went down and she says all the way to my balls. Once upon a time that was funny now I am sure it's very offensive and might describe a big portion of our population. I miss the simpler times. Sorry for going more off topic 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 What kinds of vaccinations are required to attend kindergarten these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, rico said: What kinds of vaccinations are required to attend kindergarten these days? There should be none I say no vaccine, no one should use condoms we should all have unprotected sex with as many people as possible share some needles and have one hell of a time. Thankfully many do things to help protect themselves and those around them. Should I have put the cup of coffee emoji or was understood.🤔 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 30 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: There should be none I say no vaccine, no one should use condoms we should all have unprotected sex with as many people as possible share some needles and have one hell of a time. Thankfully many do things to help protect themselves and those around them. Should I have put the cup of coffee emoji or was understood.🤔 I don't take out flood insurance because I am not in a flood area. I don't worry about tsunamis/hurricanes because I don't live near an ocean. I also don't fear shark bites when I go to the ocean, could it happen? sure.. 1 in 3.8 million chance of dying by a shark. Only 0.02% of Covid deaths happened from people under 25 years old. Why would these young people need to inject themselves with something they DO NOT NEED? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, btownqb said: I don't take out flood insurance because I am not in a flood area. I don't worry about tsunamis/hurricanes because I don't live near an ocean. I also don't fear shark bites when I go to the ocean, could it happen? sure.. 1 in 3.8 million chance of dying by a shark. Only 0.02% of Covid deaths happened from people under 25 years old. Why would these young people need to inject themselves with something they DO NOT NEED? Unlike flood insurance you do come into contact with people that your decisions might . A.persons wife might have saved herself for marriage and her husband stuck it in everything that moved. When she decides to be with her husband it's not her fault to catch what he has. She did her part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said: Unlike flood insurance you do come into contact with people that your decisions might . A.persons wife might have saved herself for marriage and her husband stuck it in everything that moved. When she decides to be with her husband it's not her fault to catch what he has. She did her part Should have got him tested. She did not do her part. I'm never blaming my health or lack of health on someone else. Absurd a PUBLIC university can require this. Edited May 26, 2021 by btownqb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 Just now, btownqb said: Should have got him tested. She did not do her Do I need to.have all my son's teachers tested because most students won't be affected by Covid but my son would be. As a teacher you don't feel an obligation to those parents that trust you with their kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 10 minutes ago, btownqb said: . Why would these young people need to inject themselves with something they DO NOT NEED? Because the ladies love that 3rd nipple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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