5fouls Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/120537/michigan-states-loss-highlights-the-big-ten-is-a-mess-and-boring Did the ACC face this criticism when Duke lost to Boston College? Kansas losing at home to Texas Tech was touted as an example of the depth in the Big 12. Villanova loses to Butler. Well, Hinkle is a tough place to play, and the Bulldogs just seem to have Nova's number. UK isn't going to go 18-0 in the SEC, so that conference is the best it's been in years. However, when MSU loses to someone other than Purdue, it makes the whole conference a train wreck. I get that the Big Ten is not as strong as it has been. But, it still has two legit Final Four contenders. How about giving credit to OSU. Maybe, just maybe, they are putting together a special season. The game yesterday does not remove MSU from being a championship contender. Nor, does it make the Big Ten a 'weaker' conference. In reality, if it does anything, it shows that there is yet another pretty good darn team besides MSU and Purdue in the conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 I don' know what it all.means. But you have to be impressed with Holtman (sp?) at this point. To beat MSU with Dakich as a starting guard? That is good coaching. OSU and IU both nabbed some quality young coaches. It should be fun to watch for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 I would have to say that the ACC, SEC, Big East, and Big 12 are all better conferences from top to bottom here on Jan. 8th. And sure the B1G has two legitimate FF contenders in MSU and Purdue with OSU getting into that conversation as well. Michigan has looked solid, but after that what else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstall76 Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 minute ago, bluegrassIU said: I don' know what it all.means. But you have to be impressed with Holtman (sp?) at this point. To beat MSU with Dakich as a starting guard? That is good coaching. OSU and IU both nabbed some quality young coaches. It should be fun to watch for years to come. Dakich does not start and and only plays about 13 minutes a game. OSU has a talented roster that many nationally forget about because they were bad last year with Diop out. OSU starts 4 top 80 players including 2 top 50 in Tate and Diop who was top 30, as well as a Juco PG. They also have a lot of experience especially in the starting lineup with 3 seniors, a junior and a sophomore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, bstall76 said: Dakich does not start and and only plays about 13 minutes a game. OSU has a talented roster that many nationally forget about because they were bad last year with Diop out. OSU starts 4 top 80 players including 2 top 50 in Tate and Diop who was top 30, as well as a Juco PG. They also have a lot of experience especially in the starting lineup with 3 seniors, a junior and a sophomore. I know you were trying to explain why OSU is performing well, but to me, it immediately reminded me that we have not been good this year even though our roster is comparable to theirs. I know not all started, but IU began the year with Johnson, Davis, and CuJo as Top 80 recruits, and Morgan and Smith were right outside that level. And, our opening game starting lineup featured 2 seniors, a junior, and 2 sophomores. Not much difference there than what OSU had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatShot Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 The Big Ten stinks right now. OSU, IU and Illinois are rebuilding with new coaches (though the Buckeyes are ahead of schedule), Wisconsin is a shell of what they were, and to be honest, their days as a contender might be over; Minnesota and Northwestern have underachieved, while Michigan and Maryland have dropped off a bit in recent years too. I'm not sure about Illinois, but I think IU and OSU are definitely set up pretty well moving forward. Our resurgence will be part of the league's next natural up-cycle that will send Purdue back to around fifth/sixth place in the coming years, which is where they would normally reside when the league is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 hours ago, 5fouls said: http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/120537/michigan-states-loss-highlights-the-big-ten-is-a-mess-and-boring Did the ACC face this criticism when Duke lost to Boston College? Kansas losing at home to Texas Tech was touted as an example of the depth in the Big 12. Villanova loses to Butler. Well, Hinkle is a tough place to play, and the Bulldogs just seem to have Nova's number. UK isn't going to go 18-0 in the SEC, so that conference is the best it's been in years. However, when MSU loses to someone other than Purdue, it makes the whole conference a train wreck. I get that the Big Ten is not as strong as it has been. But, it still has two legit Final Four contenders. How about giving credit to OSU. Maybe, just maybe, they are putting together a special season. The game yesterday does not remove MSU from being a championship contender. Nor, does it make the Big Ten a 'weaker' conference. In reality, if it does anything, it shows that there is yet another pretty good darn team besides MSU and Purdue in the conference. Actually what I see is a lot of mediocre basketball teams and that many teams can win the championship this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CauseThatsMyDJ Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, TheWatShot said: The Big Ten stinks right now. OSU, IU and Illinois are rebuilding with new coaches (though the Buckeyes are ahead of schedule), Wisconsin is a shell of what they were, and to be honest, their days as a contender might be over; Minnesota and Northwestern have underachieved, while Michigan and Maryland have dropped off a bit in recent years too. I'm not sure about Illinois, but I think IU and OSU are definitely set up pretty well moving forward. Our resurgence will be part of the league's next natural up-cycle that will send Purdue back to around fifth/sixth place in the coming years, which is where they would normally reside when the league is strong. Purdue just landed a top 250 player for 2019, okay?! They are gonna be just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstall76 Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: I know you were trying to explain why OSU is performing well, but to me, it immediately reminded me that we have not been good this year even though our roster is comparable to theirs. I know not all started, but IU began the year with Johnson, Davis, and CuJo as Top 80 recruits, and Morgan and Smith were right outside that level. And, our opening game starting lineup featured 2 seniors, a junior, and 2 sophomores. Not much difference there than what OSU had. I agree completely that we have similar makeups, they have a couple things IU does not, they have a potential B1G poy and 1st round pick in Bates Diop, they have a true PG, and they have 3 starters shooting almost 40% from 3. Plus they seem to have bought into Holtman's style quicker and deeper than IU has to Miller, this is probably explained by the fact that it is not COMPLETELY opposite of what they were doing under Matta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 I'll concede that the Big Ten is not as good as the ACC. The Challenge proved that. I'll also concede that the Big 12 is better. I think a Big 10 / SEC challenge would expose the fraud that Football USA is suddenly a basketball conference, but what the heck, let's say the SEC is better for once in our lifetime. I do, however, have an issue conceding that the BIg East and Pac 12 are better. Since we all know IU best, let's use them as the measuring stick. And, for the sake of argument, let's say that IU is the 8th best team in the Big 10 (MSU, PU, OSU, Michigan, Maryland, Minnesota, Penn State). The 8th best team in the Big East is Georgetown, Depaul, or St, John's. I would favor IU in a neutral court game against any of those teams. After UCLA, Arizona, and ASU, the 4th-10th best teams in the Pac 12 look suspiciously like the 4th-10th best teams in the B1G. But, may main point is that MSU losing does not make them any less of a team than Duke losing to Boston College. It does not make Purdue less of a team than Xavier or Seton Hall. What OSU's win does do is indicate the Buckeye's are a team to watch out for as the season goes along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 48 minutes ago, TheWatShot said: The Big Ten stinks right now. OSU, IU and Illinois are rebuilding with new coaches (though the Buckeyes are ahead of schedule), Wisconsin is a shell of what they were, and to be honest, their days as a contender might be over; Minnesota and Northwestern have underachieved, while Michigan and Maryland have dropped off a bit in recent years too. I'm not sure about Illinois, but I think IU and OSU are definitely set up pretty well moving forward. Our resurgence will be part of the league's next natural up-cycle that will send Purdue back to around fifth/sixth place in the coming years, which is where they would normally reside when the league is strong. Curious if you’ve actually done research on this whole Purdue will be 5th/6th thing and that Purdue only wins the league or is near the top when the league is down? I think you’re kidding yourself if you think Purdue will fall off moving forward. Painter continues to bring in solid talent and I don’t think Purdue is going anywhere. Do you think this Purdue team wouldn’t fare well if the league was stronger? I think they absolutely would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CauseThatsMyDJ Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: Curious if you’ve actually done research on this whole Purdue will be 5th/6th thing and that Purdue only wins the league or is near the top when the league is down? I think you’re kidding yourself if you think Purdue will fall off moving forward. Painter continues to bring in solid talent and I don’t think Purdue is going anywhere. Do you think this Purdue team wouldn’t fare well if the league was stronger? I think they absolutely would. I guess "solid talent" is relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatShot Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: Curious if you’ve actually done research on this whole Purdue will be 5th/6th thing and that Purdue only wins the league or is near the top when the league is down? I think you’re kidding yourself if you think Purdue will fall off moving forward. Painter continues to bring in solid talent and I don’t think Purdue is going anywhere. Do you think this Purdue team wouldn’t fare well if the league was stronger? I think they absolutely would. I did about a year ago when this came up, on a different site. You couldn't refute anything I wrote, so your response mirrored your last two sentences. I'm not going to predict a massive downfall, but I guarantee no Purdue fan thought they would drop as far as they did post-Robbie Hummell. And just about every Purdue fan said the same things you're saying now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 29 minutes ago, 5fouls said: I'll concede that the Big Ten is not as good as the ACC. The Challenge proved that. I'll also concede that the Big 12 is better. I think a Big 10 / SEC challenge would expose the fraud that Football USA is suddenly a basketball conference, but what the heck, let's say the SEC is better for once in our lifetime. I do, however, have an issue conceding that the BIg East and Pac 12 are better. Since we all know IU best, let's use them as the measuring stick. And, for the sake of argument, let's say that IU is the 8th best team in the Big 10 (MSU, PU, OSU, Michigan, Maryland, Minnesota, Penn State). The 8th best team in the Big East is Georgetown, Depaul, or St, John's. I would favor IU in a neutral court game against any of those teams. After UCLA, Arizona, and ASU, the 4th-10th best teams in the Pac 12 look suspiciously like the 4th-10th best teams in the B1G. But, may main point is that MSU losing does not make them any less of a team than Duke losing to Boston College. It does not make Purdue less of a team than Xavier or Seton Hall. What OSU's win does do is indicate the Buckeye's are a team to watch out for as the season goes along. My guess is that when the polls come out the B1G will have 2 teams in the Top 10 and 2 others receiving votes. My guess is that the Big 12 will have 3 teams in the Top 10, 2 others in the Top 25 and possibly a 3rd. My guess is the ACC will have 2 teams in the Top 10 and 3 others in the Top 25 and 2 others receiving votes. My guess is the SEC will have 4 teams in the Top 25 and 3 others receiving votes. My guess is the Big East will have 1 team in the Top 10 and 2 others in the Top 25 and 2 others receiving votes. My guess is the Pac 12 will have 1 team in the Top 10 and 1 other in the Top 25 and 3 others receiving votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, rico said: My guess is that when the polls come out the B1G will have 2 teams in the Top 10 and 2 others receiving votes. My guess is that the Big 12 will have 3 teams in the Top 10, 2 others in the Top 25 and possibly a 3rd. My guess is the ACC will have 2 teams in the Top 10 and 3 others in the Top 25 and 2 others receiving votes. My guess is the SEC will have 4 teams in the Top 25 and 3 others receiving votes. My guess is the Big East will have 1 team in the Top 10 and 2 others in the Top 25 and 2 others receiving votes. My guess is the Pac 12 will have 1 team in the Top 10 and 1 other in the Top 25 and 3 others receiving votes. A couple of things jump out at first glance. I would be surprised if OSU does not crack the Top 25 based on the strength of their win. Xavier and Villanova should both be Top 10 out of the Big East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 minute ago, 5fouls said: A couple of things jump out at first glance. I would be surprised if OSU does not crack the Top 25 based on the strength of their win. Xavier and Villanova should both be Top 10 out of the Big East. And here it is...... https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-villanova-new-no-1-in-ap-top-25-duke-msu-slips/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 3 hours ago, rico said: I would have to say that the ACC, SEC, Big East, and Big 12 are all better conferences from top to bottom here on Jan. 8th. And sure the B1G has two legitimate FF contenders in MSU and Purdue with OSU getting into that conversation as well. Michigan has looked solid, but after that what else? What you described right there is the same argument that the SEC shills are using now in regards to football. I agree with you, two title contenders does not make the conference the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergaard said: What you described right there is the same argument that the SEC shills are using now in regards to football. I agree with you, two title contenders does not make the conference the best. Agreed, But, the premise of this thread is not that the Big Ten is best. We know it's not. The ACC / Big Ten Challenge proved that without any shadow of a doubt. The premise of the thread is refuting that MSU's loss to Ohio State somehow diminishes the Big Ten more. Did Duke's loss to BC diminish the ACC? I say MSU's loss does the opposite. It indicates there is more quality in the Big Ten than many people want us to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 59 minutes ago, TheWatShot said: I did about a year ago when this came up, on a different site. You couldn't refute anything I wrote, so your response mirrored your last two sentences. I'm not going to predict a massive downfall, but I guarantee no Purdue fan thought they would drop as far as they did post-Robbie Hummell. And just about every Purdue fan said the same things you're saying now. I didn’t either. But I don’t think Painter will be landing any Donnie Hale’s or Jacob Lawson’s either. His recruiting has been better since then. Solid 2018 class and 2019 is off to a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CauseThatsMyDJ Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Stlboiler23 said: I didn’t either. But I don’t think Painter will be landing any Donnie Hale’s or Jacob Lawson’s either. His recruiting has been better since then. Solid 2018 class and 2019 is off to a good start. Again...a 200+ ranked player is "a good start"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: Agreed, But, the premise of this thread is not that the Big Ten is best. We know it's not. The ACC / Big Ten Challenge proved that without any shadow of a doubt. The premise of the thread is refuting that MSU's loss to Ohio State somehow diminishes the Big Ten more. Did Duke's loss to BC diminish the ACC? I say MSU's loss does the opposite. It indicates there is more quality in the Big Ten than many people want us to believe. I agree with your premise. I was just pointing out that I find it ironic that the SEC is trying to use that argument for football. I think that when the season is done, the B1G will have held it's own in the conversation of strength of conference. I would much rather a more balanced conference vs. one where one or two teams runs away from the rest. For whatever tournament we, or any B1G team finds itself in, it is going to get a steady course of good teams. I think they will be better prepared by playing an ongoing challenging regular season schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 Let me start out by saying that I love fouls and his humor. He usually puts a smile or two on my face everyday. But let's look at the OP. And subsequent posts. Duke in no way getting beat by BC is close to OSU upsetting MSU. The ACC is stacked with good teams. Hell, Clemson, Miami, and Florida state are pretty dang good. Throw in Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse, and NC State. That conference aint coming down because Duke or Carolina loose within the league. The same thing is going on in the Big 12, Kansas is taking some lumps but hell they got West Virginia, Okie, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor etc. Now I could see where the SEC, Big East, and especially the PAC-12 are on a similar plane as us. But right here right now, we (B1G) are a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, rico said: Let me start out by saying that I love fouls and his humor. He usually puts a smile or two on my face everyday. But let's look at the OP. And subsequent posts. Duke in no way getting beat by BC is close to OSU upsetting MSU. The ACC is stacked with good teams. Hell, Clemson, Miami, and Florida state are pretty dang good. Throw in Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse, and NC State. That conference aint coming down because Duke or Carolina loose within the league. The same thing is going on in the Big 12, Kansas is taking some lumps but hell they got West Virginia, Okie, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor etc. Now I could see where the SEC, Big East, and especially the PAC-12 are on a similar plane as us. But right here right now, we (B1G) are a mess. I'll counter by saying that I bet OSU goes further in the post-season than BC does. I would have not argued such an article after the Big Ten / ACC Challenge. But, having such a reaction after MSU loses to a GOOD Ohio State team, is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, 5fouls said: I'll counter by saying that I bet OSU goes further in the post-season than BC does. I would have not argued such an article after the Big Ten / ACC Challenge. But, having such a reaction after MSU loses to a GOOD Ohio State team, is silly. To be honest I would say that BC will be lucky to make it. And I understand, the article ruffled my feathers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 hours ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said: Again...a 200+ ranked player is "a good start"? Yep. I think Thompson is a stud and will end up ranked a lot better than 200+ when all is said and done. Guy has been a stud since his freshman year at Zionsville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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