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2023 SF Coen Carr


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On 1/29/2022 at 7:02 PM, KoB2011 said:

I am very interested in a long, Uber-athletic wing. 

I'd like it better if he was described as having a nice shot and above average ball handling skills.  It's great that he's very athletic and long, but does he have basketball skills.  That's my big concern.  But I also trust Coach Woodson and his coaching staff in their evaluations and coaching/teaching abilities.  I have zero trust in the AAU basketball environment.

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1 hour ago, jv1972iu said:

I'd like it better if he was described as having a nice shot and above average ball handling skills.  It's great that he's very athletic and long, but does he have basketball skills.  That's my big concern.  But I also trust Coach Woodson and his coaching staff in their evaluations and coaching/teaching abilities.  I have zero trust in the AAU basketball environment.

I trust this staff to develop his shot. And if he never amounts to more than a guy that can hit spot up corner threes and score in cuts, put backs and fast breaks while being a lockdown defender… that’s a huge asset in my book. 

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3 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I trust this staff to develop his shot. And if he never amounts to more than a guy that can hit spot up corner threes and score in cuts, put backs and fast breaks while being a lockdown defender… that’s a huge asset in my book. 

Between making threes, cuts, put backs and lockdown defender, I'd have to say that sounds like a transformation I would love to see because it's asking a lot.  JMHO   😊

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I hope that every young gifted athletic player would take the Greg Graham approach to development. 

Find your minutes first by being an elite defender. Athleticism doesn't immediately translate to buckets but it can on the defensive end get you the minutes that can fast track your confidence enough to put it together faster. 

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I feel like this kid is gonna shoot up recruiting boards. I would really like him at IU. Def could have some Oladipo in him and with him being 6'7 with that freakish athleticism, if he puts on some weight he could easily guard 1-4 on defense. 

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On 1/31/2022 at 2:50 PM, jv1972iu said:

Between making threes, cuts, put backs and lockdown defender, I'd have to say that sounds like a transformation I would love to see because it's asking a lot.  JMHO   😊

Do you have any reason to think he isn't doing that already with his elite athleticism? Unless you know something that isn't in this thread I don't know why wouldn't think that's the floor (minus the threes) for this kid right now. 

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38 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Do you have any reason to think he isn't doing that already with his elite athleticism? Unless you know something that isn't in this thread I don't know why wouldn't think that's the floor (minus the threes) for this kid right now. 

Hey...I trust Coach Woodson and the staff.  If they believe in this young man, then that's good enough for me.  Your post was very clear and I hope this recruit can achieve what you've said, should he come to IU.  He seems to have elite athletic abilities, as you stated.  😊

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I've seen a handful of elite athletes come through IU from Andre Harris, Steve Hart, Greg Graham, VO, Troy Williams, and Geronimo. I'm not sure if Greg Graham was in the that category but if he wasn't he was close and it translated day one to the defensive end. Of those names VO and Graham were the only ones that developed offensively to a level on par with their athleticism. Jury is still out on JG.

Would we be happy with Carr if he was indeed Troy Williams? He wasn't a bad defensive player but not someone that necessarily took pride in defense enough to be a stopper.

Was Troy Williams someone that could've played a lot of minutes for CMW?

I think Carr has a lot of TW about him at first glance.  

Myself,,,I hope we get him because you can't teach what he has. 

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27 minutes ago, ba43056 said:

I've seen a handful of elite athletes come through IU from Andre Harris, Steve Hart, Greg Graham, VO, Troy Williams, and Geronimo. I'm not sure if Greg Graham was in the that category but if he wasn't he was close and it translated day one to the defensive end. Of those names VO and Graham were the only ones that developed offensively to a level on par with their athleticism. Jury is still out on JG.

Would we be happy with Carr if he was indeed Troy Williams? He wasn't a bad defensive player but not someone that necessarily took pride in defense enough to be a stopper.

Was Troy Williams someone that could've played a lot of minutes for CMW?

I think Carr has a lot of TW about him at first glance.  

Myself,,,I hope we get him because you can't teach what he has. 

Man I would have loved to see Troy under this staff. Crean's "just do your thing and get as many possessions as possible" approach didn't do players like Troy any favors IMO.

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20 hours ago, ba43056 said:

I've seen a handful of elite athletes come through IU from Andre Harris, Steve Hart, Greg Graham, VO, Troy Williams, and Geronimo. I'm not sure if Greg Graham was in the that category but if he wasn't he was close and it translated day one to the defensive end. Of those names VO and Graham were the only ones that developed offensively to a level on par with their athleticism. Jury is still out on JG.

Would we be happy with Carr if he was indeed Troy Williams? He wasn't a bad defensive player but not someone that necessarily took pride in defense enough to be a stopper.

Was Troy Williams someone that could've played a lot of minutes for CMW?

I think Carr has a lot of TW about him at first glance.  

Myself,,,I hope we get him because you can't teach what he has. 

 

20 hours ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

Man I would have loved to see Troy under this staff. Crean's "just do your thing and get as many possessions as possible" approach didn't do players like Troy any favors IMO.

Troy Williams was pretty darn good his sophomore and junior seasons. Shot over 50% from the field both seasons, shot over 45% from 3 his sophomore year and 35% his junior year. 

Especially his junior year, he was a very key piece, along with Yogi and Bryant, in leading IU to the Big Ten Title and Sweet Sixteen. 

I'm not sure when we began a narrative (don't mean you guys specifically) that players didn't develop under Crean, but player development wasn't Creans issue at IU. 

Troy Williams was good player development story for Crean, not a bad one. 

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

...

I'm not sure when we began a narrative (don't mean you guys specifically) that players didn't develop under Crean, but player development wasn't Creans issue at IU. 

That was one thing Crean has to get significant credit for. He brought in some pretty raw players and churned out several NBA players. If it was only Wade and Oladipo, that would be one thing.

Things that Crean did less well: 

  • randomness of some of the scholarship offers and the subsequent Creaning (which was probably overstated)
  • X and O coaching & in game adjustments - he did not know how to break a zone

Honestly, I think there were things other than on-court performance that brought down Crean. We did make 3 sweet 16's in his final 6 seasons.

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3 hours ago, GaloisGroupe said:

That was one thing Crean has to get significant credit for. He brought in some pretty raw players and churned out several NBA players. If it was only Wade and Oladipo, that would be one thing.

Things that Crean did less well: 

  • randomness of some of the scholarship offers and the subsequent Creaning (which was probably overstated)
  • X and O coaching & in game adjustments - he did not know how to break a zone

Honestly, I think there were things other than on-court performance that brought down Crean. We did make 3 sweet 16's in his final 6 seasons.

I was on the old ESPN board when we hired TC and there was a really well written and fair couple of paragraphs offered up to us from a Marquette board member and every bit of it came true. So he's a canned product that no matter where he goes you'll get what he does well and bad like a sequel to Groundhogs Day.  Some of his issues were personality and not willing to take ownership of team shortcomings,  along with the points you made. However, there was only the one year after Cody that we didn't have a quality big and had Fischer not bailed we would always have had great continuity there. He landed 2 St. Louis players that were major contributors which has never been done at IU and he did well against the Syracuse zone. 

Back to Carr: I can see him being like Troy Williams. A straight line force of nature that will knock down the occasional 3 and make flashy defensive plays. I'm not sure players like that would accept the "fixed starting line-up" permanent bench roll like JG has. I hope that facet of CMW's coaching is going to be a one-off this year. I've accepted the idea that maybe over 40 minutes the idea that maybe Kopp or Stewart aren't wired to come off the bench and Galloway and JG are.....but if I was Carr I would want to know that the minute I arrived on campus all 5 positions were being competed for and that competition was on-going for the entire time I was a Hoosier. 

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3 hours ago, ba43056 said:

I was on the old ESPN board when we hired TC and there was a really well written and fair couple of paragraphs offered up to us from a Marquette board member and every bit of it came true. So he's a canned product that no matter where he goes you'll get what he does well and bad like a sequel to Groundhogs Day.  Some of his issues were personality and not willing to take ownership of team shortcomings,  along with the points you made. However, there was only the one year after Cody that we didn't have a quality big and had Fischer not bailed we would always have had great continuity there. He landed 2 St. Louis players that were major contributors which has never been done at IU and he did well against the Syracuse zone. 

Back to Carr: I can see him being like Troy Williams. A straight line force of nature that will knock down the occasional 3 and make flashy defensive plays. I'm not sure players like that would accept the "fixed starting line-up" permanent bench roll like JG has. I hope that facet of CMW's coaching is going to be a one-off this year. I've accepted the idea that maybe over 40 minutes the idea that maybe Kopp or Stewart aren't wired to come off the bench and Galloway and JG are.....but if I was Carr I would want to know that the minute I arrived on campus all 5 positions were being competed for and that competition was on-going for the entire time I was a Hoosier. 

Wait, now JG should be a starter? Who is he going to start over?

I think that we do have an open competition on the starting lineup, I just don't think some of you like the result that currently the best construction of our starting lineup is what we put out there. 

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16 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Wait, now JG should be a starter? Who is he going to start over?

I think that we do have an open competition on the starting lineup, I just don't think some of you like the result that currently the best construction of our starting lineup is what we put out there. 

 

I never said JG as earned a starting position, my comparison was more him being an elite athlete but if you wanna dig into recent games he has been more productive than Kopp. 

Stewart and especially Kopp have played their ways out of the starting unit multiple times, if the starting unit is to be considered your more productive group. Kopp's a one trick pony that has to drop 15+ to offset his liability on the defensive end. Stewart can do a couple of other things out there and as long as Kopp is on the floor his defensive limitations aren't as obvious. 

I'm sure that CMW knows more about roster management especially his own than I do, but his style so far has been far more Crean than Knight. 

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6 minutes ago, ba43056 said:

 

I never said JG as earned a starting position, my comparison was more him being an elite athlete but if you wanna dig into recent games he has been more productive than Kopp. 

Stewart and especially Kopp have played their ways out of the starting unit multiple times, if the starting unit is to be considered your more productive group. Kopp's a one trick pony that has to drop 15+ to offset his liability on the defensive end. Stewart can do a couple of other things out there and as long as Kopp is on the floor his defensive limitations aren't as obvious. 

I'm sure that CMW knows more about roster management especially his own than I do, but his style so far has been far more Crean than Knight. 

JG doesn't play the same position as Kopp or Stewart. If you take one of them out of the lineup it wouldn't be with JG.

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34 minutes ago, ba43056 said:

 

I never said JG as earned a starting position, my comparison was more him being an elite athlete but if you wanna dig into recent games he has been more productive than Kopp. 

Stewart and especially Kopp have played their ways out of the starting unit multiple times, if the starting unit is to be considered your more productive group. Kopp's a one trick pony that has to drop 15+ to offset his liability on the defensive end. Stewart can do a couple of other things out there and as long as Kopp is on the floor his defensive limitations aren't as obvious. 

I'm sure that CMW knows more about roster management especially his own than I do, but his style so far has been far more Crean than Knight. 

JG doesn't play the same position as either of those guys. He's a stretch 4, so him starting takes our Race or TJD.

Stewart and Kopp are clearly the weak link's in the starting lineup, but the reality is we don't have another suitable player on the wing to start. Bates isn't ready to start. Galloway, great as he can be at times, isn't ready to start either and he does more to benefit us off of the bench. Who else would you start at the 2-3 spots? 

The Crean vs. Knight thing is absolutely puzzling to me; what coaches do you see changing their lineups all the time like so many on this board call for? What a coach did 30 years ago is completely irrelevant to today's game. Generally changing your lineup means things aren't going well, but we're playing our best basketball of the year right now and you're sitting here calling for changes. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

This young man looks like he'd be a really good get to go with Little (hopefully), Newton and Cupps in '23.  Very strong at guard and wing.  Hopefully we land a couple of guys in '22 and '23 with good length to go with these guys, e.g., rim protection and rebounding.  Good combo of athleticism, toughness, and skill.  These guys can go at it in practice too.

We may be seeing an inflection point in changing our talent level at guard and wing in the next couple of classes.

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Wont be surprise if Assembly is full. I didn't have student tickets for this game so I went and bought tickets. Now IU just sent me free tickets for the game and all the kids on my floor all got tickets to.

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2 hours ago, mkaser said:

Wont be surprise if Assembly is full. I didn't have student tickets for this game so I went and bought tickets. Now IU just sent me free tickets for the game and all the kids on my floor all got tickets to.

Great move by the school and glad so many can go. Need the lungs tonight from you guys and enjoy!

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3 hours ago, mkaser said:

Wont be surprise if Assembly is full. I didn't have student tickets for this game so I went and bought tickets. Now IU just sent me free tickets for the game and all the kids on my floor all got tickets to.

Have a great time. Enjoy it while you fan. Once you have kids and jobs it's hard to get back even to a place that means so much to us Hoosiers

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  • KDB changed the title to 2023 SF Coen Carr

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