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Trouble in Madison....


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11 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Nope. I’m not a Boomer nor am I Gen Z, but I can look at it objectively and say both generations have had plenty of challenges to overcome. I don’t think getting into a pissing match of who had it worse does any good. For sake of argument let’s say it was harder for Baby Boomers than it has been for Gen Z - so what? Does that mean Gen Z can’t have feelings about the hardships they have had to overcome?

We all have and will face adversity...and what one person feels might not bother another. For example...imagine this scenario...my father didn't go to college...bought a 28,000 home...was able to work 30 odd years in a factory job (feeding and clothing 8 kids by the way). Now imagine a young kid today. Goes to college and graduates with probably 20-50k in student debt. There are no more manufacturing jobs, few high paying jobs for a person starting out, maybe starts out making 35k. Wants to buy a home near the city where they work. Homes avg maybe 300k (some places 500-1.5 million in large cities) need to put a down payment of 20%...and they feel overwhelmed at how they are going to get there. (I know this isn't the perfect example but certainly is something millions face today) There are barriers today and challenges today that are significant...and how that manifests itself in stress etc is just different. I think we can appreciate and admire the past and still recognize the challenges of today.

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Just now, dgambill said:

We all have and will face adversity...and what one person feels might not bother another. For example...imagine this scenario...my father didn't go to college...bought a 28,000 home...was able to work 30 odd years in a factory job (feeding and clothing 8 kids by the way). Now imagine a young kid today. Goes to college and graduates with probably 20-50k in student debt. There are no more manufacturing jobs, few high paying jobs for a person starting out, maybe starts out making 35k. Wants to buy a home near the city where they work. Homes avg maybe 300k (some places 500-1.5 million in large cities) need to put a down payment of 20%...and they feel overwhelmed at how they are going to get there. (I know this isn't the perfect example but certainly is something millions face today) There are barriers today and challenges today that are significant...and how that manifests itself in stress etc is just different. I think we can appreciate and admire the past and still recognize the challenges of today.

image.gif.74a78b70f72bb3d976debe6defbd3f8b.gif

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25 minutes ago, dgambill said:

We all have and will face adversity...and what one person feels might not bother another. For example...imagine this scenario...my father didn't go to college...bought a 28,000 home...was able to work 30 odd years in a factory job (feeding and clothing 8 kids by the way). Now imagine a young kid today. Goes to college and graduates with probably 20-50k in student debt. There are no more manufacturing jobs, few high paying jobs for a person starting out, maybe starts out making 35k. Wants to buy a home near the city where they work. Homes avg maybe 300k (some places 500-1.5 million in large cities) need to put a down payment of 20%...and they feel overwhelmed at how they are going to get there. (I know this isn't the perfect example but certainly is something millions face today) There are barriers today and challenges today that are significant...and how that manifests itself in stress etc is just different. I think we can appreciate and admire the past and still recognize the challenges of today.

Scholarship athletes, i would imagine, have zero debt.  4 year students on average have around $29k in student debt and average starting salary for a 4 year degree is almost 50k.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/15/college-grads-expect-to-earn-60000-in-their-first-job----few-do.html

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1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

Scholarship athletes, i would imagine, have zero debt.  4 year students on average have around $29k in student debt and average starting salary for a 4 year degree is almost 50k.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/15/college-grads-expect-to-earn-60000-in-their-first-job----few-do.html

Sure, but they have plenty of other stuff to deal with. 

Everyone has to deal with different challenges, why do we need to say that things are bad for Joe just because they were (maybe) worse for Jim? Pointing that out, regardless of it is true, doesn't make Joe's hardships any easier. 

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3 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Scholarship athletes, i would imagine, have zero debt.  4 year students on average have around $29k in student debt and average starting salary for a 4 year degree is almost 50k.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/15/college-grads-expect-to-earn-60000-in-their-first-job----few-do.html

And, I would add:

Now, in the past couple of years, home prices have skyrocketed due to COVID, money printing, etc. But prior to that, from 1973 to 2015, home prices per square foot (inflation adjusted) remained remarkably constant. What changed was how much larger homes became, although households became smaller (i.e. the SF per individual increased dramatically)

image.png.a3f3761c7e3b36c0581f50d24c97c012.png 

image.png.01f96cfaaa59377d8007dc497da45d13.png

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8 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Scholarship athletes, i would imagine, have zero debt.  4 year students on average have around $29k in student debt and average starting salary for a 4 year degree is almost 50k.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/15/college-grads-expect-to-earn-60000-in-their-first-job----few-do.html

Athletes usually do end up having some debt, even football and basketball players on full scholarships. The athletes of other sports almost certainly end up with debt. This article says that football and basketball athletes leave school with an average of $12k debt.

https://collegead.com/how-much-debt-are-student-athletes-leaving-with/

Some other numbers:

https://www.credible.com/blog/student-loans/athletic-scholarships-dont-guarantee-debt-free-college-degree/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1130678/debt-ncaa-student-athletes/

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17 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Sure, but they have plenty of other stuff to deal with. 

Everyone has to deal with different challenges, why do we need to say that things are bad for Joe just because they were (maybe) worse for Jim? Pointing that out, regardless of it is true, doesn't make Joe's hardships any easier. 

My post had almost all facts and zero opinions.  

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1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said:

And, I would add:

Now, in the past couple of years, home prices have skyrocketed due to COVID, money printing, etc. But prior to that, from 1973 to 2015, home prices per square foot (inflation adjusted) remained remarkably constant. What changed was how much larger homes became, although households became smaller (i.e. the SF per individual increased dramatically)

image.png.a3f3761c7e3b36c0581f50d24c97c012.png 

image.png.01f96cfaaa59377d8007dc497da45d13.png

What changed is that wages did not keep pace. Wages have been remarkably stagnant and home prices have outpaced wage growth considerably.

FT_18.07.26_hourlyWage_adjusted.png

 

grattan-house-prices-Vs-wages.jpg

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

Agree. Kids want a program where they can come back and visit and feel appreciated. They want a coach that they can rely on to be a mentor/advisor/friend for the rest of their lives. That is partly why I think Woodson has a chance to be really successful at IU, because he's already been vocal about turning IU back into a place that pay dividends to their athletes even after they've left. A true family atmosphere and always caring about the players even when they're gone. 

The worst thing is to sell that and then not deliver upon it, and it sounds like that is what Gard was doing. Doesn't mean the players aren't being overly sensitive and aren't partly in the wrong here. 

I agree on your thoughts about Woodson and would add that this is a big part of Tom Allen’s success. 
 

Bob Knight has been mentioned here a few times. From what I’ve gathered a lot of the reason he could do what he was successful with his coaching style is because most of the players knew he did care about them as people. Players had the same complaints about Wooden in the 60s and 70s. This really isn’t a new thing. 
 

Something I haven’t seen here is that most people don’t think the leaker was a player. It sounds like a situation where players tried to have a conversation with their coach and someone else tried to use it to their own advantage. 

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32 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What changed is that wages did not keep pace. Wages have been remarkably stagnant and home prices have outpaced wage growth considerably.

FT_18.07.26_hourlyWage_adjusted.png

 

grattan-house-prices-Vs-wages.jpg

Lending practices certainly dont help. When I went to buy my house in 2009 the loan officer said I could get a loan with a monthly payment up to 30% of gross monthly pay, which is dumb because you dont take home gross pay. I said nope my rent is $500 I will pay no more than $550 with escrow included. 

Point is banks will loan you whatever and that helps drive the prices up because people will take the maximum they can. 

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14 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

You won't jump on the bandwagon that we all face different challenges? I guess I'm just genuinely confused right now. 

No im down to agree with that one.  I'm also aware that other generations have literally suffered far more than the most privileged generation the world has ever seen and dont care to debate it.  

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20 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

You won't jump on the bandwagon that we all face different challenges? I guess I'm just genuinely confused right now. 

Been following this discussion and I'm going to chime in. 

Watching and listening to these kids who get an opportunity 98% of others could only dream of and bitching about it 

Try being an alcoholic, but dont, please.  It's a living hell. The greatest challenge of my life. I have to fight it every single day. 

Edited by mrflynn03
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12 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

Been following this discussion and I'm going to chime in. 

Watching and listening to these kids who get an opportunity 98% of others could only dream of and bitching about it 

Try being an alcoholic, but dont, please.  It's a living hell. The greatest challenge of my life. I have to fight it every single day. 

You are an inspiration. I am so glad to hear that you are fighting this. 
 

In my prayers 

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3 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

You are an inspiration. I am so glad to hear that you are fighting this. 
 

In my prayers 

I honestly feel like Rocky fighting Clubber Lang, because in Rocky 3 Mr. T beat the crap out of Rocky in the first fight but then Rocky came back and knocked Clubbers head around.

Pretty much alcoholism goes back multiple generations. It's a battle but one that I will win. 

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34 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

Been following this discussion and I'm going to chime in. 

Watching and listening to these kids who get an opportunity 98% of others could only dream of and bitching about it 

Try being an alcoholic, but dont, please.  It's a living hell. The greatest challenge of my life. I have to fight it every single day. 

First, I wish you the absolute best in your fight against alcoholism. I truly mean that. 

With that said, I don’t understand the correlation between that and playing basketball at Wisconsin and being unhappy with that experience? You don't think some people that have played at that level haven't fought alcoholism? 

I just don't understand your point there?

Just because someone realizes the dream of playing Power 5 basketball, which tons of other kids would have killed for the opportunity, doesn't mean the experience is great or even good for that person. Just because it's a coveted spot doesn't make the experience a good one. 

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@BGleas

"I just don't understand your point there?"

Part of solving this problem of mine, which I thought I did, is admitting you have one. 

I dont really interact with people in real life. I have my wife, coworkers, pets and you internet strangers/friends. Just trying to build my toolbox for a healthy sober life. I pray every day for it to get easier.

Edited by mrflynn03
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1 minute ago, mrflynn03 said:

@BGleas

"I just don't understand your point there?"

Part of solving this problem of mine, which I thought I did, is admitting you have one. 

I dont really interact with people in real life. I have my wife, coworkers, pets and you internet strangers/friends. Just trying to build my toolbox for a healthy sober life. I pray every day for it to get easier.

I'm pulling for you, and wish you nothing but the best in this fight. I've had relatives in the same battle, it's real and not easy by any means. Praying for you!

I just didn't understand the correlation you were making between that and the right of basketball players being unhappy at Wisconsin?

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15 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'm pulling for you, and wish you nothing but the best in this fight. I've had relatives in the same battle, it's real and not easy by any means. Praying for you!

I just didn't understand the correlation you were making between that and the right of basketball players being unhappy at Wisconsin?

I guess I just needed a place to say it. My family has had this problem for generations.  The curse of being Irish I guess.

BTW my favorite NBA team growing up was the Celtics. Maybe Larry Bird had something to do with it,

Or this movie 

 

images.jpeg

Edited by mrflynn03
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1 hour ago, mrflynn03 said:

Been following this discussion and I'm going to chime in. 

Watching and listening to these kids who get an opportunity 98% of others could only dream of and bitching about it 

Try being an alcoholic, but dont, please.  It's a living hell. The greatest challenge of my life. I have to fight it every single day. 

I don't have any idea what any of those kids have gone through on a personal level. Do any of us?

Edited by KoB2011
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14 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

Thats kinda the point I was trying to make. I may shitpost from time to time but I doubt those kids are dealing with real hardship.  

Fair enough. I couldn't pretend to know what they're dealing with, but I don't personally know anyone who wasn't dealing with a lot at that particular time. I can't imagine going through Covid and not being able to see immediate family like those kids couldn't. 

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