Big Ten 2021-2022

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, Joe_Hoopsier said:

Hey @IUFLA , This post of mine sounded much funnier in my head least night than it actually is. I was trying to be cute, not a dick. It just seems to come natural to me some time.. Sorry bro! 

(Grabbing @Joe_Hoopsier by the arm)

"Now you lookie here, mister!" 

Your post was funny...

Not even an issue, brother...

[Euroclydon]

1 hour ago, mchenry34 said:

I believe that this incident will eventually be seen through the lens of racism, and I believe rightly so. My opinion is developed from the fact that Gard's staff has been accused of racism before, Howard grew up in a tough situation in Chicago, and Gard's demeanor had  "teaching that boy a lesson" written all over it. From the grab of Howard as he walked past to the way he talked about Howard in the postgame press conference. (I'd be very interested in what Krabbenhoff said...I'm guessing it's not a good look).

I had not thought about a racial aspect to this but if you were to reverse the races on this and a white coach had smacked or punched a black coach, I think it would not be a question of whether they get terminated or not. They'd be gone already. That's the jacked up culture we are in today. It's not about facts. It's not about merit. Today it only matters what side of the cultural/political divide you are on. I doubt there is a college or university today with the balls to even investigate this event if the races were reversed.

 

 

[IUCrazy2]

1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

I am not disagreeing, it did not warrant the response from Howard.  He has to he the bigger man. Coaching at that level is.90 percent ego and he let his team down by acting like a jackass

Nobody is disagreeing with that.  No one.  So move past that, do you think anything should be done to Gard for his role?  That is where the argument appears to lie because it doesn't seem like you do.

[IUskim]

5 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Howard 5

Gard 1 

UW assistant 3

Truthfully, I can't see what player threw what, any player throwig a punch gets 3. I wouldn't worry about anything else from the players. 

Also, the UW coach that threw up the "suck it" sign. Yeah, he gets at least a game. That was bizzare. 

This is probably the most likely outcome. I could see them bumping gard suspension to 3 games but this is probably how it will end up. 

[tdhoosier]

20 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Finally, I blame the Big Ten and the fact that the richest conference in the country cannot afford to hire better officials.  We have been spiraling towards an outcome like this all year because of how out of control they let players and games get.  Davison had another "incidental" contact incident with a Michigan player's groin yesterday.  Nothing happens to the guy and everyone knows he is a cheap shot artist.  Wisconsin and Michigan have both led the way with some pretty unsportsmanlike conduct before this game and nobody has stepped in before things got out of control to restore order.

I mentioned this earlier, but I honestly question how this lies solely on the officials? However, I'm not absolving them at all. 

Just like Wisconsin has a team culture of being shifty trolls, the conference has long had a culture of being overly and unnecessarily aggressive to the point where it now plays into the coaches' game plans. The coaches (especially the 'Godfather' of the league, Izzo) push the envelope. Many times they put the officials into a position where they are daring the officials to call everything. And unless you want the game to last 3 hours, have multiple players in fouls trouble and be borderline unwatchable, the officials have to frequently swallow their whistles.

[BGleas]

Hey all, I know this can be a nuanced conversation for a variety of reasons, but let's tread carefully on the political aspects, etc., per the board rules. 

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, IUskim said:

This is probably the most likely outcome. I could see them bumping gard suspension to 3 games but this is probably how it will end up. 

If he gets three, Howard has to get 5. Their suspensions can't be the same. 

[kyhoosier29]

16 minutes ago, Indykev said:

He still put his hands on Howard and was poking him in his chest. Not a slap but you just dont put your hands on a person to make your point.

Don’t take this offensively, just giving an opinion. I think we’ve gotten so soft in society. I think there’s a difference in what Gard did and really putting your hands on somebody. If you shake somebody’s hand in that situation and don’t let go as soon as the other person is ready to, is that putting your hands on somebody? Pushing, hitting, poking somebody, yes, but grabbing his arm in a normal fashion that you would while shaking his hand isn’t “putting your hands on somebody”? I realize Howard was pissed already which blew things out of proportion, but I guarantee Gard’s initial contact with Howard was no different than any other handshake line Howard has gone through. He just wasn’t pissed in the others. JMO. 

With that said, I hate Davis, Davison, and everything Wisconsin! But the answer to hating them isn’t punching them or stooping to their level. It’s finishing games like the one we blew and putting L’s next to their name. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by kyhoosier29

[NCHoosier32]

32 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Let's change the scenario a bit.  You and I are in the grocery store at the height of the pandemic.  You notice I am not wearing a mask and make a comment about how I should as you are trying to get past in the aisle.  I block your path with my cart, aggressively grab at you to "explain" why you are wrong and I won't let you pass.  Is that acceptable behavior?

If your answer is no, then Gard was also in the wrong in this situation.  Krabbenhoft also waded into the scrum and was putting hands on Michigan players, which is why I think he got whopped.  Throw the book at Howard, he should not have swung.  What I think I and others are saying is that there is culpability on the Wisconsin side that needs dealt with as well.

Finally, I blame the Big Ten and the fact that the richest conference in the country cannot afford to hire better officials.  We have been spiraling towards an outcome like this all year because of how out of control they let players and games get.  Davison had another "incidental" contact incident with a Michigan player's groin yesterday.  Nothing happens to the guy and everyone knows he is a cheap shot artist.  Wisconsin and Michigan have both led the way with some pretty unsportsmanlike conduct before this game and nobody has stepped in before things got out of control to restore order.

You want this to stop?  Start instituting review of plays after games and start sitting guys who taunt the crowd and have a knack for their hands "accidentally" punching people in every other game.

agreed Gard shouldn't have done that, but it isn't a huge deal as opposed to swinging at someone.  for the record, i would never tell you to wear a mask though!   

[Seeking6]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Hey all, I know this can be a nuanced conversation for a variety of reasons, but let's tread carefully on the political aspects, etc., per the board rules. 

I've been pretty impressed it's only taken 18 hours to get there. Haha.

[94hoosier]

14 minutes ago, Indykev said:

After watching all the clips I could find. Gard, UW assistant and Davidson, 3 games suspension. Howard at minimum 10 games gone, should be fired. A few UM players gone 3 or more games, a few UW players gone 3 or more games.

That sounds about right

not sure that Gard and his assistant should get more than 1 or 2 games. Players probably the same. Howard needs at least 5 or the rest of the year. UM president should sit him the rest of the season

 

Davidson is dirty and should be suspended. 

[IUskim]

Just now, btownqb said:

If he gets three, Howard has to get 5. Their suspensions can't be the same. 

I think Howard gets 5 regardless if anyone gets suspended or not because of the slap punch swing or whatever it was. 

[NCHoosier32]

14 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Not even close to the same analogy.  I said it so.many times this happens all the time in hand shake lines the only difference was a slap was thrown. 

also take into account that he literally fought through a mob to swing.  and again... not even at Gard.

[IUCrazy2]

1 minute ago, tdhoosier said:

I mentioned this earlier, but I honestly question how this lies solely on the officials? However, I'm not absolving them at all. 

Just like Wisconsin has a team culture of being shifty trolls, the conference has long had a culture of being overly and unnecessarily aggressive to the point where it now plays into the coaches' game plans. The coaches (especially the 'Godfather' of the league, Izzo) push the envelope. Many times they put the officials into a position where they are daring the officials to call everything. And unless you want the game to last 3 hours, have multiple players in fouls trouble and be borderline unwatchable, the officials have to frequently swallow their whistles.

No, you call the games tight as heck until coaches realize that thug ball is going to result in their best players being on the bench 5 minutes into the first half.

You also have the power after games to review plays and take disciplinary action after the fact.  Take Davison for instance, in the past two weeks you have him "accidentally" punching a player in the mouth hard enough to draw blood and hitting another guy in the nuts.  To me, you come back after the games and say he has a pattern of unsportsmanlike behavior and you sit him.  And I would make those punishments cumulative.  He got suspended for the same crap last year so I would make the suspension worse based on a pattern of behavior.

Taunting opposing benches or the crowd after games?  Warnings to begin with and then start suspending guys.  It is not hard to reestablish control if you have the will to do so.  And if guys like Izzo cry, tough sh*t.  Learn to play within the rules or be forced to coach without several of your players each half.

[NCHoosier32]

8 minutes ago, Euroclydon said:

I had not thought about a racial aspect to this but if you were to reverse the races on this and a white coach had smacked or punched a black coach, I think it would not be a question of whether they get terminated or not. They'd be gone already. That's the jacked up culture we are in today. It's not about facts. It's not about merit. Today it only matters what side of the cultural/political divide you are on. I doubt there is a college or university today with the balls to even investigate this event if the races were reversed.

 

 

hmm.  good point.

[IUCrazy2]

4 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

agreed Gard shouldn't have done that, but it isn't a huge deal as opposed to swinging at someone.  for the record, i would never tell you to wear a mask though!   

Same page on the mask.

I don't think what Gard did was as big of a deal.  Howard should be looking at punishment up to being fired.  I think Gard should get a 1 or 2 game suspension.  Howard was definitely more wrong, I just don't want to see Wisconsin get off scott free.

[BGleas]

16 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Not even close to the same analogy.  I said it so.many times this happens all the time in hand shake lines the only difference was a slap was thrown. 

Gotta agree with you on this. I hate when stuff like this happens and people try to equate to if the same thing happened in their office or something. It's not the same thing. 

Your (i mean generally, not you specifically) accounting office is not the same thing as a high major college or professional athletic venue. 

There is no correlation, they're completely different things. 

[IUCrazy2]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Gotta agree with you on this. I hate when stuff like this happens and people try to equate to if the same thing happened in their office or something. It's not the same thing. 

Your (i mean generally, not you specifically) accounting office is not the same thing as a high major college or professional athletic venue. 

There is no correlation, they're completely different things. 

Then the same logic applies to the punch slap.

[Billingsley99]

11 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Nobody is disagreeing with that.  No one.  So move past that, do you think anything should be done to Gard for his role?  That is where the argument appears to lie because it doesn't seem like you do.

Yes suspend for at least 1 game. He initiated it yes but what he did IMO did not warrant someone taking a swing. Howard has an obligation to HIS team and he lost control and know that has a negative impact for HIS team that is the issue to me. No matter what you cannot r3act that way.

[tdhoosier]

19 minutes ago, Indykev said:

After watching all the clips I could find. Gard, UW assistant and Davidson, 3 games suspension. Howard at minimum 10 games gone, should be fired. A few UM players gone 3 or more games, a few UW players gone 3 or more games.

I think there is a sweet spot for UM: Suspended Howard the rest of the year.

Howard is a good coach and they don't want to get rid of him. A suspension to the end of the season says that they are taking this seriously. The season is pretty much already down the drain anyway so it's really not going to effect anything in the long run. It will also be a 'first strike' they carry in their back pocket in the case that Howard performance dwindles in the future. Universities are calculating like that. 

[btownqb]

Also, 

UW you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. They couldn't keep their mouths shut after a win and now you're going to have multiple coaches and players suspended. 

100% this was made possible by UW not thinking anyone would call their bluff on their BS. If you talk s***, you might get hit. 🤷‍♂️

Howard was like 99% in the wrong, but, when you act like a b****, don't be surpised when you get smacked lol all I'm saying. 

Gards stupid af for trying to start a conversation at that point too. There was no "hands on" though, that stuff happens all the time. Zero chance Howard should have felt threatened. Howard also chose to be THAT upset about a timeout. Both are absolute fools. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by btownqb

[NCHoosier32]

on a related note... i definitely may be wrong, but interested what people have to say about this...how often is a guy who gets his first head coaching job at a big program only by his name, but a resume that does not deserve it successful?  my memory is horrible and i'm only thinking of a few, but Hardaway, Ewing, Howard, Mullin pop into my mind quickly as not exactly showing they were ready for the job they got.  

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Then the same logic applies to the punch slap.

Exactly. Howard will most likely get suspended, not fired. 

Not the same as a co-worker in an office punch slapping someone.

[IUCrazy2]

Just now, Billingsley99 said:

Yes suspend for at least 1 game. He initiated it yes but what he did IMO did not warrant someone taking a swing. Howard has an obligation to HIS team and he lost control and know that has a negative impact for HIS team that is the issue to me. No matter what you cannot r3act that way.

Then I think we mostly agree and were just talking past each other.  I think Howard was the most egregious, I think that was obvious.  I just want to make sure that Gard had to answer in some way for his role as well.

[NotIThatLives]

9 minutes ago, IUskim said:

This is probably the most likely outcome. I could see them bumping gard suspension to 3 games but this is probably how it will end up. 

Id be totally shocked if Gard gets more than 1 game.  

What I'd like to see happen is the B1G tells Gard and Izzo, by whistle, no more fouling 15 times a possession.  No more whining and crying over every single call no call.  Your schtick is over.  Find a new one.  You have made B1G a despicable product and you will change.  

Brad Davison needs accountability or he and overrated will raise some a hole children.  Probably too late for that since she went for him in the prime of his punk behavior.