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Big Ten 2021-2022


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9 minutes ago, rico said:

I think through these 4 games against the Big East that we are seeing what some of us had already concluded.  That Wisconsin was going to be way down this year, that Illinois and Michigan are/were overrated , and Nebraska doing what cornjerkers do.

Michigan is just young and doesn't have any experienced depth. My question from the beginning was how do you replace those valuable minutes off the bench from guys like Chaundee Brown and Austin Davis? And losing the starter minutes of Livers and Wagner just can't be easily replaced...

As I said, the Houstan kid is a terrific player, but he's a freshman. 1-9 last night...he's never played that kind of competition or against that kind of defense before...

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6 minutes ago, rico said:

Hell, the way it is looking we might be getting a high seed.  A win tonight will help.

Yeah the B1G looks like it is there for the taking. None of the teams look like they are Final Four teams. Michigan, Wisconsin and Illinois all have losses to less then stellar teams and OSU has looked average so far, and while Purdue has won easily they have played a couple of scrub teams. A win tonight for the Hoosiers would be a big step in the right direction. 👍

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17 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

Let’s not read into the first week too much. Kofi has been hurt, OSU has multiple players that are hurt, Michigan is young, but very talented. 

Exactly. I think it was Rabby saying on a podcast that you really don’t know what a team is going to look like until 25% into the season. There are countless examples of this type of stuff happening. MSU had a large history of head scratching losses in the first month of the season, only to recover later on. Heck, remember when that National Championship UNC team lost to that one team who didn’t make the tournament like 5 years ago? ….I think their colors were cream and crimson?

Don’t like how this can affect our strength of schedule, but I do want to see IL with a healthy Cockburn 🔥 and UM with a couple of games under their belt. Not sure those teams are top 15 right now, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they make it back up there. 

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28 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

Let’s not read into the first week too much. Kofi has been hurt, OSU has multiple players that are hurt, Michigan is young, but very talented. 

 

2 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Exactly. I think it was Rabby saying on a podcast that you really don’t know what a team is going to look like until 25% into the season. There are countless examples of this type of stuff happening. MSU had a large history of head scratching losses in the first month of the season, only to recover later on. Heck, remember when that National Championship UNC team lost to that one team who didn’t make the tournament like 5 years ago? ….I think their colors were cream and crimson?

Don’t like how this can affect our strength of schedule, but I do want to see IL with a healthy Cockburn 🔥 and UM with a couple of games under their belt. Not sure those teams are top 15 right now, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they make it back up there. 

I agree in premise with both of your takes...

But looking at what a team is going to struggle with early on is a lot easier than predicting how much or how little a team is going to improve (if the don't regress) throughout the year. 

Michigan and Illinois may very well be different teams by the end of the year, but pointing out their weaknesses at this point is a valid take as well. 

I do think Michigan will improve over the year, but the question is how much? Seton Hall is picked 4th in the Big East this year, but they did have experience in their favor.

Illinois on the other hand has to get Curbelo playing at some level of sanity...

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1 hour ago, ledies22 said:

Let’s not read into the first week too much. Kofi has been hurt, OSU has multiple players that are hurt, Michigan is young, but very talented. 

Kofi has been hurt, but none of the things that the Illini had issues with will improve with him coming back. They have had 58 TOs in three games against bad teams. Kofi coming back isn't going to help that or improve their bad PG play. 

 As for Michigan i haven't watched them so can't comment to much on their games, they are young but the guys they lost are going to be hard to replace this season.

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10 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

Kofi has been hurt, but none of the things that the Illini had issues with will improve with him coming back. They have had 58 TOs in three games against bad teams. Kofi coming back isn't going to help that or improve their bad PG play. 

 As for Michigan i haven't watched them so can't comment to much on their games, they are young but the guys they lost are going to be hard to replace this season.

I disagree.  A great post is one of the biggest ways to improve guard play.

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12 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I disagree.  A great post is one of the biggest ways to improve guard play.

It helps improve shooting because it opens it up some, although other then Frazier they were missing wide open 3s, but bad guard play with turnovers isn't going to improve just with a post presence. Most of Curbelos TO were bad ball handling and bonehead plays.

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8 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I disagree.  A great post is one of the biggest ways to improve guard play.

Can you expand on that a little?

I think I can see some of what you're saying, but the Illini not only have execution problems (which is what I think you're getting at maybe?) but there also appears to be a struggle as to who is going to be the "go to" guy at crunch time.

Cockburn is a good college player (I don't think he'll ever be an NBA star) and he's going to get his, but I always believed the guy who is going to carry a team at crunch time is going to have to have multiple ways to score...

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22 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

It helps improve shooting because it opens it up some, although other then Frazier they were missing wide open 3s, but bad guard play with turnovers isn't going to improve just with a post presence. Most of Curbelos TO were bad ball handling and bonehead plays.

I feel that it does guards cannot pressure as much. People not in passing lanes because they have to help on the post. All defenders are 1 step closer to the lane etc..a few inches change angles so.much. went Kofi comes back I would be shocked to not see turnovers drop significantly. Guards won't need to force and create, they will play through Kofi

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Just now, Billingsley99 said:

I feel that it does guards cannot pressure as much. People not in passing lanes because they have to help on the post. All defenders are 1 step closer to the lane etc..a few inches change angles so.much. went Kofi comes back I would be shocked to not see turnovers drop significantly. Guards won't need to force and create, they will play through Kofi

Can you CC Andre Curbelo on this? ;) 

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3 hours ago, rico said:

So you're not a B1G fan?  Michigan and Illinois going down makes the conference look bad.  Last time I checked we were in that conference.  In the grand scheme of things it affects us.

I go back and forth on this. Some years I want the Big Ten to look great and be the toughest conference, and I think there are years where I don't care as much. 

For me, this is a year where I'm completely fine with the conference being down and teams like Michigan, Illinois, etc., faltering nationally. 

The reasoning? IU needs momentum. Coach Woodson needs momentum (he's already building some of course). So if a down year for the conference can help IU finish 2-3 spots higher in the Big Ten this year, then I'm all for it, even if it's largely because the other teams just weren't that good. 

For this year, there is a lot of value for IU to finish higher than anticipated, even if it's partly because other teams are just down. 

This season is about creating momentum IMO. 

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

I go back and forth on this. Some years I want the Big Ten to look great and be the toughest conference, and I think there are years where I don't care as much. 

For me, this is a year where I'm completely fine with the conference being down and teams like Michigan, Illinois, etc., faltering nationally. 

The reasoning? IU needs momentum. Coach Woodson needs momentum (he's already building some of course). So if a down year for the conference can help IU finish 2-3 spots higher in the Big Ten this year, then I'm all for it, even if it's largely because the other teams just weren't that good. 

For this year, there is a lot of value for IU to finish higher than anticipated, even if it's partly because other teams are just down. 

This season is about creating momentum IMO. 

Fair enough...but if we get bounced from the NCAAT in our 1st game then the weak conference will be the reason.  Or at least the "media" will say so.  Now if IU finishes above projections in the conference coupled with a strong showing in the tourney then I, along with everyone else here, would be tickled.

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26 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Can you expand on that a little?

I think I can see some of what you're saying, but the Illini not only have execution problems (which is what I think you're getting at maybe?) but there also appears to be a struggle as to who is going to be the "go to" guy at crunch time.

Cockburn is a good college player (I don't think he'll ever be an NBA star) and he's going to get his, but I always believed the guy who is going to carry a team at crunch time is going to have to have multiple ways to score...

A lot of coaches are different but I lived applying  pressure on the perimeter and over play passing lanes make life miserable on guards.  That changes when you have a dominant post threat. Now you still pressure the ball but everyone else has to drop at least 1 step to help cover passes. You then give up the perimeter passes to try and slow down guard to post entry. That subtle change really opens things up.

Also now the offense is ran through Kofi, get himnthe ball early and play off of what he does. Right now Cuebelo is trying to create too much.  Lastly it's so much easier to drive and get bailed out when you can throw it up to a 7 footer.

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5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I go back and forth on this. Some years I want the Big Ten to look great and be the toughest conference, and I think there are years where I don't care as much. 

For me, this is a year where I'm completely fine with the conference being down and teams like Michigan, Illinois, etc., faltering nationally. 

The reasoning? IU needs momentum. Coach Woodson needs momentum (he's already building some of course). So if a down year for the conference can help IU finish 2-3 spots higher in the Big Ten this year, then I'm all for it, even if it's largely because the other teams just weren't that good. 

For this year, there is a lot of value for IU to finish higher than anticipated, even if it's partly because other teams are just down. 

This season is about creating momentum IMO. 

Completely understood in normal circumstances. However, if a weak B1G come to fruition and we don't finish in the top 5, the concern then pivots to our very weak out of conference schedule come selection time. Come February we may be wishing for a bigger, more meaningful game to be on the schedule. 

On a personal note, I can't help but root for B1G teams. Maybe it's just because I know them better than other teams, but I genuinely like seeing them win....even Purdue. I really want a NC for our conference sometime this decade and I don't care who gets it. 

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5 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Completely understood in normal circumstances. However, if a weak B1G come to fruition and we don't finish in the top 5, the concern then pivots to our very weak out of conference schedule come selection time. Come February we may be wishing for a bigger, more meaningful game to be on the schedule. 

On a personal note, I can't help but root for B1G teams. Maybe it's just because I know them better than other teams, but I genuinely like seeing them win....even Purdue. I really want a NC for our conference sometime this decade and I don't care who gets it. 

You had me up until the Purdue comment. I would swim in a pool of poop before rooting for Pudue unless it helped IU win the Big

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1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

I feel that it does guards cannot pressure as much. People not in passing lanes because they have to help on the post. All defenders are 1 step closer to the lane etc..a few inches change angles so.much. went Kofi comes back I would be shocked to not see turnovers drop significantly. Guards won't need to force and create, they will play through Kofi

Fair point 👍

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5 hours ago, rico said:

So you're not a B1G fan?  Michigan and Illinois going down makes the conference look bad.  Last time I checked we were in that conference.  In the grand scheme of things it affects us.

I don't root for big ten teams in the tournament just because they are in the same conference as us.

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2 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

Completely understood in normal circumstances. However, if a weak B1G come to fruition and we don't finish in the top 5, the concern then pivots to our very weak out of conference schedule come selection time. Come February we may be wishing for a bigger, more meaningful game to be on the schedule. 

On a personal note, I can't help but root for B1G teams. Maybe it's just because I know them better than other teams, but I genuinely like seeing them win....even Purdue. I really want a NC for our conference sometime this decade and I don't care who gets it. 

If we don't finish in the top 5 of a weak Big Ten then we're having an entirely different conversation. 

IMO, this year is about stacking W's and building momentum. I'm not too concerned with SOS. 

I'd rather IU, this year, finish top 5 in a weak Big Ten, then 7th or 8th in a strong one. 

Again, I'm talking about this seasons circumstances with a new coach and trying to dig out of 5 years of no NCAA tourney. 

If IU was ranked in the top 10 and a true Final Four contender, etc., then my thought would be different. 

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

If we don't finish in the top 5 of a weak Big Ten then we're having an entirely different conversation. 

IMO, this year is about stacking W's and building momentum. I'm not too concerned with SOS. 

I'd rather IU, this year, finish top 5 in a weak Big Ten, then 7th or 8th in a strong one. 

Again, I'm talking about this seasons circumstances with a new coach and trying to dig out of 5 years of no NCAA tourney. 

If IU was ranked in the top 10 and a true Final Four contender, etc., then my thought would be different. 

If IU is ranked in the top 10 and we are true Final Four contender AND STILL finish 7th or 8th in the B1G, then that is one heck of a season for the B1G...

Either that or conference realignment has gotten really out of hand and the B1G is some 64 team behemoth... 

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