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16 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

I’m not sure I’m following. A couple of things though:

-Donations have been made to schools; the NIL won’t change that. 

-Per the NIL rules in place, there has to be a quid pro quo. Money needs to be exchanged for a service. 

-Players can’t accept money/gifts for nothing or as a donation. They simply can’t be ‘given’ money. 

Are you suggesting donated money being filtered through a non for profit shell company that doesn’t offer any products or services to pay athletes for an endorsement? I’m not sure that would be legal; that sounds like money laundering. Essentially Knight would pay athletes indirectly for a non existent service? Technically that would be a donation, which again, is against the NIL rules.

I'm not suggesting actual donations. If I'm a booster that would normally donate a million bucks to the athletic department, that no longer seems like the best way to help my team win. Now, instead of doing that, I create a website for IU fans. I put that million dollars towards paying players so that I can put their pictures on my site, maybe have them come into my chat board once a month and answer some questions. Those things will help build my site. I doubt I will recoup my million, but that was never my goal. I'm not suggesting a not for profit company, I'm suggesting a company that is set us as a regular old for profit enterprise, but that will most likely fail at ever generating a profit. There's not a law against being a bad businessman. 

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8 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

I'm not suggesting actual donations. If I'm a booster that would normally donate a million bucks to the athletic department, that no longer seems like the best way to help my team win. Now, instead of doing that, I create a website for IU fans. I put that million dollars towards paying players so that I can put their pictures on my site, maybe have them come into my chat board once a month and answer some questions. Those things will help build my site. I doubt I will recoup my million, but that was never my goal. I'm not suggesting a not for profit company, I'm suggesting a company that is set us as a regular old for profit enterprise, but that will most likely fail at ever generating a profit. There's not a law against being a bad businessman. 

Much much smaller donor but my house is holding off on our normal donations this year until we can figure out the best use of the little we donate. We stopped donating to IU General Fund years ago with McRobbie in charge. Been Varsity Club only....but now just like you said there are benefits to players, future recruits if we look at doing something ourselves. Again much smaller scale....but if there 1000 families out there that each spend $2500? Covers that big donor real quick. 

I can already hear the traditionalists cringing...wait until players who do their post game interviews and they start sounding like Nascar drivers. Haha.

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1 hour ago, HoosierDom said:

I'm not suggesting actual donations. If I'm a booster that would normally donate a million bucks to the athletic department, that no longer seems like the best way to help my team win. Now, instead of doing that, I create a website for IU fans. I put that million dollars towards paying players so that I can put their pictures on my site, maybe have them come into my chat board once a month and answer some questions. Those things will help build my site. I doubt I will recoup my million, but that was never my goal. I'm not suggesting a not for profit company, I'm suggesting a company that is set us as a regular old for profit enterprise, but that will most likely fail at ever generating a profit. There's not a law against being a bad businessman. 

Ah, I got you. I guess we'll see. There is no crime against being a bad businessman, but something that blatant would seem to be red flagged once a more solid system is put in place. A shell company whose sole revenue comes from donations is still essentially a booster program...just one step removed.

No doubt it's going to take away donations from athletic departments. 

Fo the record, I'm not suggesting things will be squeaky clean at all. There are definitely going to be kinks and loopholes that will need to be worked out. That said, throwing out figures like one million dollars is just not going to happen for 99.9% of athletes. I think, again all speculative, the best are just going to eclipse six figures per year. The very best (phenoms) may get close to $1 million. 

The supply of endorsers (endorsees?) just jumped exponentially last night. I don't care how rich you are...you're not going to give an athlete a million dollar contract when his second best offer is $100k. 

 

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One thing I don't think is getting enough attention and which we will see an impact is the participation of IU's academic professors, students, and alumni. Kelly's business school, SPEA, etc. are both highly successful schools within IU and are rated as top programs in the nation. There will be a synergy that comes from IU's academic schools which impacts NIL in ways we can't comprehend yet.

If anybody understands how to profit from social media, this generation of students is the one to help IU and NIL. They will see capital streams that we do not, which is another arrow in the quiver.

Cuban made his billions because he was able to look forward at the beginning of the internet era. When Cuban sold Broadcast for $$$, it was really more of a concept waiting for higher bandwidth. Imagine what this generation of entrepreneurs will think of in relation to NIL. I think it is a two edged sword, but in the end, I think having the different schools within IU involved will be a boon for all involved.

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3 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

Ah, I got you. I guess we'll see. There is no crime against being a bad businessman, but something that blatant would seem to be red flagged once a more solid system is put in place. A shell company whose sole revenue comes from donations is still essentially a booster program...just one step removed.

No doubt it's going to take away donations from athletic departments. 

Fo the record, I'm not suggesting things will be squeaky clean at all. There are definitely going to be kinks and loopholes that will need to be worked out. That said, throwing out figures like one million dollars is just not going to happen for 99.9% of athletes. I think, again all speculative, the best are just going to eclipse six figures per year. The very best (phenoms) may get close to $1 million. 

The supply of endorsers (endorsees?) just jumped exponentially last night. I don't care how rich you are...you're not going to give an athlete a million dollar contract when his second best offer is $100k. 

 

It won't be based just on their athletic prowess but also how well they market themselves and factors like how attractive they are. Olivia Dunne, for instance, is a gymnast for LSU. She may become a millionaire now that the NIL is in effect. Is it because she's the best gymnast? Not really. I have no idea if she's good or not. The reason she'll probably get rich is because she has a ton of followers on social media platforms. She has those followers because she's a good looking young woman who must've done a really good job of marketing herself and racking up followers. I would guess that all but a minority are probably following for reasons unrelated to gymnastics. 

I think players like Priller could've done reasonably well at making money with the NIL. He obviously wasn't a good ball player, but he is personable and was well liked by the fans.

I don't dispute that there will be large gaps between what the top earners make compared with those at the bottom. My point is that the top earners won't always be the best athletes in their sports. I also think you're underestimating how much the top earners will make.

Edited by go_iu_bb
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1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

Ah, I got you. I guess we'll see. There is no crime against being a bad businessman, but something that blatant would seem to be red flagged once a more solid system is put in place. A shell company whose sole revenue comes from donations is still essentially a booster program...just one step removed.

No doubt it's going to take away donations from athletic departments. 

Fo the record, I'm not suggesting things will be squeaky clean at all. There are definitely going to be kinks and loopholes that will need to be worked out. That said, throwing out figures like one million dollars is just not going to happen for 99.9% of athletes. I think, again all speculative, the best are just going to eclipse six figures per year. The very best (phenoms) may get close to $1 million. 

The supply of endorsers (endorsees?) just jumped exponentially last night. I don't care how rich you are...you're not going to give an athlete a million dollar contract when his second best offer is $100k. 

 

I assume similar things are why the NCAA hasn't been able to come up with any rules: there is no tenable way to prevent that sort of thing. Who is going to do this red flagging you are talking about? The NCAA is not going to have this "company's" business records. The NCAA does not have subpoena power; these won't be publicly traded companies, so their business records will not be disclosed to anyone. 

There was an ESPN (maybe it was CBS?) article a while back that estimated the average power conference star would be worth something like 150k in endorsements, so I think you're right. But, that is only counting money that comes from people who view their payment to players as legitimate business opportunities where they are making an honest attempt to increase their own profits. The first article I found on the topic said that in 2015 there were 20 schools that raised over $25 million in athletic contributions - that year alone. That's $500 million spread out over those schools. That's not enough to make the going rate for a 5 start player go to 7 figures?  

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22 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Whats to keep regular fans from paying a player to come to their kids birthday party?

Or a "donor" who decides to bypass the University all together and set up his own autograph signing/picture session at the local mall and pay kids 25k appearance fee....it's going to be a wild ride for sure!

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1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

Whats to keep regular fans from paying a player to come to their kids birthday party?

Not a damn thing. We have a golf tourney in September. Trying to figure out what appearance fees would be for a couple of the guys. Don't have an answer but my understanding is birthday parties, restaurant openings, golf outings....all of it...is free game. 

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2 hours ago, HoosierDom said:

I assume similar things are why the NCAA hasn't been able to come up with any rules: there is no tenable way to prevent that sort of thing. Who is going to do this red flagging you are talking about? The NCAA is not going to have this "company's" business records. The NCAA does not have subpoena power; these won't be publicly traded companies, so their business records will not be disclosed to anyone. 

There was an ESPN (maybe it was CBS?) article a while back that estimated the average power conference star would be worth something like 150k in endorsements, so I think you're right. But, that is only counting money that comes from people who view their payment to players as legitimate business opportunities where they are making an honest attempt to increase their own profits. The first article I found on the topic said that in 2015 there were 20 schools that raised over $25 million in athletic contributions - that year alone. That's $500 million spread out over those schools. That's not enough to make the going rate for a 5 start player go to 7 figures?  

On Indiana Sports Beat yesterday they were talking to Matt Taylor the Colts radio broadcaster.  He brought up a good point that just look at the Colts and Pacers players and there are very few of them that does many advertising in the local media.  He said if these professional athletes are not getting the local endorsement why would college athletes.

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12 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

On Indiana Sports Beat yesterday they were talking to Matt Taylor the Colts radio broadcaster.  He brought up a good point that just look at the Colts and Pacers players and there are very few of them that does many advertising in the local media.  He said if these professional athletes are not getting the local endorsement why would college athletes.

A professional athlete is also going to command a higher figure, so that could be part of it as well. 

Do I want to, or can I even afford to, pay Jeremy Lamb $50,000 when he makes $3M (and would be take that) or Trayce Jackson-Davis $2,500 when he makes $0?

I'm just making numbers up, but the point is that the math is much different for everyone when comparing signing an NFL or NBA player to an endorsement versus a college player. 

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9 minutes ago, BGleas said:

A professional athlete is also going to command a higher figure, so that could be part of it as well. 

Do I want to, or can I even afford to, pay Jeremy Lamb $50,000 when he makes $3M (and would be take that) or Trayce Jackson-Davis $2,500 when he makes $0?

I'm just making numbers up, but the point is that the math is much different for everyone when comparing signing an NFL or NBA player to an endorsement versus a college player. 

This 100%. It’s going to be much easier to persuade a college athlete to appear at an event than it is a professional athlete.

Professionals are going to command much more $$$. College athletes, on the other hand, are going to be looking for any source of income they can get. 

Just look at these college athletes’ social media pages. All of them are posting that they are open towards any sort of endorsement as a way to make money. Thus, it’s going to be much easier to get a college player to make an appearance at an event versus a professional athlete who’s already making millions. 

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1 minute ago, 02Hoosier said:

This 100%. It’s going to be much easier to persuade a college athlete to appear at an event than it is a professional athlete.

Professionals are going to command much more $$$. College athletes, on the other hand, are going to be looking for any source of income they can get. 

Just look at these college athletes’ social media pages. All of them are posting that they are open towards any sort of endorsement as a way to make money. Thus, it’s going to be much easier to get a college player to make an appearance at an event versus a professional athlete who’s already making millions. 

Exactly. As someone that is a marketer, I've managed influencer marketing and have had much more success in terms of both revenue and ROI when partnering with an influencer who has 20,000 Instagram followers versus an influencer with 150,000 followers. 

Someone with 20,000 might do it for product or maybe something like $100-$500, where the influencer with 150,000 wants $2,500-$5,000. 

The math/ROI just works with the smaller influencer, and often time you even get more revenue. 

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13 hours ago, Drroogh said:

I just saw that and came over here to discuss this thought. Will a kid like him or Dwyane Wade's son ever go to a historically black college because they could have a national following and blaze their own path? I personally would love to see it.  If you're a freak of a talent like Zion the cameras are going to follow.  Other than ESPN being Duke's sugar daddy what appeals about playing in front of an uppity predominantly white and Asian crowd to a young black kid? 

And yes i know Tennessee state isn't a historical black college but he turned down lots of major offers. 

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On 7/2/2021 at 3:38 PM, Seeking6 said:

Not a damn thing. We have a golf tourney in September. Trying to figure out what appearance fees would be for a couple of the guys. Don't have an answer but my understanding is birthday parties, restaurant openings, golf outings....all of it...is free game. 

There’s an app or something like that called Cameo…basically you put your services up to be rented by the hour for appearances.

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6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

There’s an app or something like that called Cameo…basically you put your services up to be rented by the hour for appearances.

Cameo is for recorded videos, but every celebrity basically sets their own prices. 

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