PoHoosier Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 I am going to go out on a limb here and say the Rob did not lose us this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: I know right, I mean PG is 3rd in defensive win shares, when you said he couldn't defend anymore, while leading the League in steals both in steals per game and steals per minute, and he's leading the League, by a wide margin, in deflections, obviously it's irrelevant and you're right, PG can't defend anymore. No, steals alone are not a judge of defense, see Harden, but ignoring them to try to prove a point is silly. I didn't say he couldn't defend anymore, I said he wasn't doing it. Big difference. He clearly could, which proves the attitude problem everyone locally knows he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, cohete15 said: Enjoyed the game. I like wins where a key player like Rob is having an off night. Thought this win showed us more than the Minnesota win. Seems the team I becoming tougher. My one complaint is the continued sloppiness passing around the arc. We had I think at least 3 times...McBob did it twice...where we are just moving it around and opponent jumps the passing lane. Tonight, it didn’t hurt us because we recovered, but other nights they have gone to the opposition. I think we act as if those are free passing lanes. Just need better focus there. That sloppy passing around started when PSU tightened up its zone. In the first 10 min or so we were playing great offensively, shot something like 7-14, on back cuts and nice passing, then PSU made some adjustments and our guys were lost for a good stretch, PSU took the lead, and the game moved forward in kind of an ugly way. I was disappointed in how CAM / the team struggled to adjust to PSU's zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: If you watched the game, I'm trusting you did, you saw that several times he was in perfect defensive position, as, again, commented on by the commentators, but "that guard" played some tremendous offense, he's very good, and he got off his shots against good D. Just sitting there saying the other guy got 28 is just not a way to judge a guy's D. Look, I get that. I watched the game, and saw Carr hit a couple tough shots when RoJo was in good position. But like I said, RoJo played an absolutely awful game on the offensive end, in all facets. And you can’t point to his defense as outweighing that negative impact on offense when the guy he was tasked with shutting down went off anyway. All things considered, RoJo did a lot more to hurt the team than help it in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just now, KoB2011 said: I didn't say he couldn't defend anymore, I said he wasn't doing it. Big difference. He clearly could, which proves the attitude problem everyone locally knows he had. I recall you saying several times that he wasn't the same after his injury, not that he wasn't, but ok. We can disagree about his attitude, it's fine now, when he's not playing with Teague, not having Bird trade away everyone and wreck the team. P's are much better off with Pritch running the show, and it's great to see Vic killing it. End of the day, everyone's happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: No, it's like saying he contributed to the win, and overall was fine, while not shooting well and not having a "stellar" game. He didn't have a stellar game. He also didn't have a terrible game. Okay, so it's like the QB went 31-49 for 415 yards, 1 TD and 5 picks in a win. How silly of me to not see how winning means that no player played bad. So that means in our losses everyone did play bad, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, FW_Hoosier said: Look, I get that. I watched the game, and saw Carr hit a couple tough shots when RoJo was in good position. But like I said, RoJo played an absolutely awful game on the offensive end, in all facets. And you can’t point to his defense as outweighing that negative impact on offense when the guy he was tasked with shutting down went off anyway. All things considered, RoJo did a lot more to hurt the team than help it in this game. Fair to have that view -- his shooting was definitely off (along with everyone else's, though), but my perspective is people basically get wrapped up in O and largely ignore D, the same way people watch the ball -- the player with the ball - and largely ignore play off the ball, where players are impacting the game but go ignored because what they're doing isn't necessarily in the box and isn't watched when you focus on the ball. Rob was playing fairly well generally, he just wasn't hitting shots, and yes he had some nutty TO's -- again, I am not in any way saying he had a great game, but no, he did not have a terrible game, and all in all I thought it was "ok," and his play helped the team win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Fair to have that view -- his shooting was definitely off (along with everyone else's, though), but my perspective is people basically get wrapped up in O and largely ignore D, the same way people watch the ball -- the player with the ball - and largely ignore play off the ball, where players are impacting the game but go ignored because what they're doing isn't necessarily in the box and isn't watched when you focus on the ball. Rob was playing fairly well generally, he just wasn't hitting shots, and yes he had some nutty TO's -- again, I am not in any way saying he had a great game, but no, he did not have a terrible game, and all in all I thought it was "ok," and his play helped the team win. Do you think Rob has had any bad games this season? What game was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Okay, so it's like the QB went 31-49 for 415 yards, 1 TD and 5 picks in a win. How silly of me to not see how winning means that no player played bad. So that means in our losses everyone did play bad, right? oh come on, that's spin and straw men and you know it. guys help the team win in many ways, including when they're missing shots. that's what makes a "basketball player" and not just a shooter. He was playing pretty good D, against a really good offensive player. He was moving the ball well (though with some TO's). Etc. How silly of me to recognize how a player contributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just now, KoB2011 said: Do you think Rob has had any bad games this season? What game was it? Goodnight KoB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Fair to have that view -- his shooting was definitely off (along with everyone else's, though), but my perspective is people basically get wrapped up in O and largely ignore D, the same way people watch the ball -- the player with the ball - and largely ignore play off the ball, where players are impacting the game but go ignored because what they're doing isn't necessarily in the box and isn't watched when you focus on the ball. Rob was playing fairly well generally, he just wasn't hitting shots, and yes he had some nutty TO's -- again, I am not in any way saying he had a great game, but no, he did not have a terrible game, and all in all I thought it was "ok," and his play helped the team win. Nah, he had a terrible game. Sorry. Played great Sat, but terrible tonight. And if we have a chance to win more than we lose this year, our senior guard has to be much better. Poor shooting, poor decision making, and the guy he was tasked with guarding he couldn’t guard. He got beat to the lane a number of times on defense. What’s the most disturbing is that he got picked from behind once, and then didn’t even hustle to try to get the ball back. Maybe he’s trying hard 99% of the time and maybe he’s frustrated, and I’ll continue to root for him, but he was bad tonight. I guarantee you HE would tell you he was bad tonight. And CAM would tell you he was bad if it was appropriate to point out as a head coach. The positive? He wasn’t so terrible that he cost us the game. And without him we still won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy River Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, kyhoosier29 said: More concerning to me was the idiot decision to drive the lane at the end of the game instead of pull it out (the one where review showed it went out on him). I can deal with off nights shooting, but the bonehead plays from a senior are unacceptable. I almost puked when I heard Steven Bardo say "Time and Possession". That was one thing I hated about the Crean era. I can't tell you how many times I screamed at the TV when late in the game, with a lead,we would dribble around the perimeter and hoist up a contested three as the shot clock ran down, only to get beat because the other team (One particularly memorable occasion it was Penn State in Assembly Hall) seized momentum and won the game. People screamed that we should be "attacking the basket" or "Stepping on their throats" The team didn't have a "Killer Instinct".....my how times have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 20 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: oh come on, that's spin and straw men and you know it. guys help the team win in many ways, including when they're missing shots. that's what makes a "basketball player" and not just a shooter. He was playing pretty good D, against a really good offensive player. He was moving the ball well (though with some TO's). Etc. How silly of me to recognize how a player contributes. His guy scored 28. That isn't all on him, but his defense didn't contribute to us winning. How can you say it did? Hard to say a guy who has two assists and 4 official and 2 more "team" turnovers moved the ball well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, Muddy River said: I almost puked when I heard Steven Bardo say "Time and Possession". That was one thing I hated about the Crean era. I can't tell you how many times I screamed at the TV when late in the game, with a lead,we would dribble around the perimeter and hoist up a contested three as the shot clock ran down, only to get beat because the other team (One particularly memorable occasion it was Penn State in Assembly Hall) seized momentum and won the game. People screamed that we should be "attacking the basket" or "Stepping on their throats" The team didn't have a "Killer Instinct".....my how times have changed. He could've shot the uncontested 15' pull-up and had a killer instinct. He drove into a bigger defender that was in good position, that's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 hours ago, 5fouls said: Hartman is a great shooter who is in a slump. I would like to bring to everyone's attention, that Collin is playing with his arm in a support. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 17 minutes ago, Muddy River said: I almost puked when I heard Steven Bardo say "Time and Possession". That was one thing I hated about the Crean era. I can't tell you how many times I screamed at the TV when late in the game, with a lead,we would dribble around the perimeter and hoist up a contested three as the shot clock ran down, only to get beat because the other team (One particularly memorable occasion it was Penn State in Assembly Hall) seized momentum and won the game. People screamed that we should be "attacking the basket" or "Stepping on their throats" The team didn't have a "Killer Instinct".....my how times have changed. What you are describing is getting complacent or protective of a lead with minutes to play. I’m talking about being up 6 with the ball and seconds to play. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy River Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: He could've shot the uncontested 15' pull-up and had a killer instinct. He drove into a bigger defender that was in good position, that's the problem. Perhaps. But let's say he drives the lane and hits the shot,draws the foul and gets the "and 1". Now Bardo is saying he is"a cagey senior leader who recognized the mismatch and attacked the rim, keeping the pressure on Penn State in crunch time". Same play, different result, completely different narrative. It's a bad play because it didn't work. No one says otherwise if he makes the shot and draws the foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefftheref Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, milehiiu said: I would like to bring to everyone's attention, that Collin is playing with his arm is in support. . He had a very good game tonight with his sore shoulder. Hopefully he is in a little better shape before the next game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 48 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Look, I get that. I watched the game, and saw Carr hit a couple tough shots when RoJo was in good position. But like I said, RoJo played an absolutely awful game on the offensive end, in all facets. And you can’t point to his defense as outweighing that negative impact on offense when the guy he was tasked with shutting down went off anyway. All things considered, RoJo did a lot more to hurt the team than help it in this game. Yet with about 3 minutes left in the game and up 64-58 he made a key drive and hit a shot over their big center to put us up 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, jefftheref said: He had a very good game tonight with his sore shoulder. Hopefully he is in a little better shape before the next game. Considering all the injuries he has suffered through in Collin's history at IU.... I am thinking he just may be the very toughest player ever to don the Candy Stripes. We all know he is a great three point shooter. And his shot was off tonight. Just as with De'Ron.... there was a reason, why his, and De'Ron's games have and had been off. Dakich, not with standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 51 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Okay, so it's like the QB went 31-49 for 415 yards, 1 TD and 5 picks in a win. How silly of me to not see how winning means that no player played bad. So that means in our losses everyone did play bad, right? You play to win the game. I just can't believe how far our fan base intelligent has went down the last 20 years. Try to be happy that we won the game and try to be a fan and not a coach. As a fan we don't have to critique every play of the game and see every bad play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: You pay to win the game. I just can't believe how far our fan base intelligent has went down the last 20 years. Try to be happy that we won the game and try to be a fan and not a coach. As a fan we don't have to critique every play of the game and see every bad play. Umm.... That's what fans have done and will continue to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: You pay to win the game. I just can't believe how far our fan base intelligent has went down the last 20 years. Is this Kentucky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just now, KoB2011 said: Is this Kentucky? I changed it to you play to win the game. All I care about is the win and don't really care how we got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just now, IU Scott said: All I care about is the win and don't really care how we got it. Still seems like Kentucky. What do I know though? I'm younger than you so my intelligence is down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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