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Hiller and Sheridan


Bad Brad

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It has become more than clear that Hiller nor Sheridan are effective at this level.  Regardless of Allen's personal attachments, every day these 2 are in place in this program, which Allen has clawed and scratched to gain competitive credibility,..will not so gradually go backward.  LEO should also encompass practical 'tough love'.  If they aren't canned before season's end look for some verbals to jump while other top names lose interest.

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55 minutes ago, Bad Brad said:

It has become more than clear that Hiller nor Sheridan are effective at this level.  Regardless of Allen's personal attachments, every day these 2 are in place in this program, which Allen has clawed and scratched to gain competitive credibility,..will not so gradually go backward.  LEO should also encompass practical 'tough love'.  If they aren't canned before season's end look for some verbals to jump while other top names lose interest.

While I think there is room for criticism for everyone....I think it is much too soon to be calling for jobs. I can see why you chose your user name lol.

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1 hour ago, Bad Brad said:

It has become more than clear that Hiller nor Sheridan are effective at this level.  Regardless of Allen's personal attachments, every day these 2 are in place in this program, which Allen has clawed and scratched to gain competitive credibility,..will not so gradually go backward.  LEO should also encompass practical 'tough love'.  If they aren't canned before season's end look for some verbals to jump while other top names lose interest.

You called a lot offense in your life? 

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2 minutes ago, Indykev said:

You were happy with the play calling?

I think he can speak for himself but most people felt like the ball game got away so fast and Penix honestly played so poorly (there were wide open guys on many of his forced throws) in not reading and taking the open throws that it was pretty hard to access truly how good or bad the game plan was. I questioned a couple of those 2nd and 15 run plays we had but overall the qb/ol play was so poor that it was very hard to access the play calling. That was my take and I think mostly what @btownqb has mentioned among other things in several post game threads.

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1 hour ago, Indykev said:

You were happy with the play calling?

Did you ever think that the play calling was intended to be a bit vanilla for Penix's sake. I know Coach said he was 100% ready, but was he 100% mentally? I'm sure the coaching staff caught on right away that Penix was off from the get go. I'm not making excuses, but really,.....Wasn't our offense a it boring and plain last Sat.? If eit got any more complex with Penix's poor start, it would have snowballed. Besides......Iowa played two deep safeties almost the entire game with constant pressure on the the QB. 

Edited by Artesian_86
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2 hours ago, Bad Brad said:

It has become more than clear that Hiller nor Sheridan are effective at this level.  Regardless of Allen's personal attachments, every day these 2 are in place in this program, which Allen has clawed and scratched to gain competitive credibility,..will not so gradually go backward.  LEO should also encompass practical 'tough love'.  If they aren't canned before season's end look for some verbals to jump while other top names lose interest.

You the one that predicted 4 wins?

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1. Sheridan by all accounts is considered a coach on the rise.

2. That game was a cluster but I am at a loss that playcalling could be anywhere near the top of issues raised by fans.  What is Sheridan supposed to do when Penix has a wide open Hendershot in the end zone, and Penix threw it to the third row?  Or when Penix threw it to a double covered check off for three yards when he had a receiver running loose 20 yards downfield with only one man to beat?  I get the need to vent but our players on offense didn't do diddly other than a couple of guys.

3. Nobody is getting fired during the season.

4.  I do agree that Hiller can be looked at after the season.  He's had enough of a sample size to get a consistent line going.  Allen isn't going to give him a free pass forever.

5.  As bad as Penix and the line were, the receivers were a disappointment too outside of Fryfogle.  If the vets don't want to assert themselves, we have a slew of good prospects like Green, Holt-Bennett, Williams, Swinton.  Those are some good prospects.  We might need to pull off the training wheels off if this continues.  None of this had anything to do with playcalling.

 

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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44 minutes ago, rico said:

You the one that predicted 4 wins?

I thought with the schedule we had 7-5 would be a realistic expectation....hoping for 8-4 but knew we would have to win our share of those toss up games like Iowa, Michigan St, and Cincy. I was expecting losses at Penn St and Michigan and at home to OSU. (not that those aren't winnable but on the road in the big house and in Happy Valley....rough). No game is unwinnable but I felt the season will be up and down early before hopefully running off 4 of 5 to end the season and take momentum into the bowl season. I still would like to see us get back in the top 25 and get a nice bowl and build off last couple years. We lost our first opportunity to steal a big road win....we will have some other prove it games. For now Idaho is a chance to fix some mistakes and build momentum and healthy habits before a dangerous UC team.

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18 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I thought with the schedule we had 7-5 would be a realistic expectation....hoping for 8-4 but knew we would have to win our share of those toss up games like Iowa, Michigan St, and Cincy. I was expecting losses at Penn St and Michigan and at home to OSU. (not that those aren't winnable but on the road in the big house and in Happy Valley....rough). No game is unwinnable but I felt the season will be up and down early before hopefully running off 4 of 5 to end the season and take momentum into the bowl season. I still would like to see us get back in the top 25 and get a nice bowl and build off last couple years. We lost our first opportunity to steal a big road win....we will have some other prove it games. For now Idaho is a chance to fix some mistakes and build momentum and healthy habits before a dangerous UC team.

I was asking @Bad Brad.  But yeah, I understand everything you just said there.

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No question, we have lost two big time coordinators over the past two years in Wommack and DeBoer.  They were truly outstanding.  Those losses to the staff were a couple of significant blows, but Allen found them to begin with, and that shows he knows how to fill his staff.  I am sure he will look at everything after the season.

As for DeBoer, I think the sky is the limit with that guy.  

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We lost to a very good Iowa team! We have a lot of season ahead of us and can win plenty of games! 
The season will dictate what will happen! I can imagine there were a couple of coaches that got a total butt chewing an deserved one!
Our offensive line and Penix looked very unprepared! Which totally dumbfounded me! My God we were playing Iowa not some rummy! 

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I'm still in wait and see mode on Sheridan. He's clearly not in DeBoer's league yet (I don't think many are). There were so many disasters happening in the Iowa game, that it's hard to pin point what exactly went wrong (besides everything). I do think his play calling is kind of bland and doesn't do a lot to help the OL.

Hiller on the other hand needs to go if there aren't major improvements during the season. He's been here 5 years, and we don't have any good run or pass blocking lineman last year or this year. We returned almost all of our line, have quite a bit of experience, and it was just as bad or worse than last year. Needs to be a major improvement this year.

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22 hours ago, btownqb said:

You called a lot offense in your life? 

Nope.  I'm not getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get it done, the same way you aren't.  It doesn't take a 'coach' to see BAD.  Since these 2 have been responsible for run blocking, pass protection, play calling, the offense has been embarrassing ineffective.  Can't run,...and with the exception of the desperate last half effort vs OSU (while they were in a prevent defense) can't put up an effective pass attack. As a result, are unable to win time of possession, putting the owness on the exceptional defense.  So far, Hiller has not been able to secure a 4* OL'man.  That says volumes.  That's only the 'tip of the iceberg'.  I plan to have more after the Vandals invade Bloomington.

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22 hours ago, dgambill said:

While I think there is room for criticism for everyone....I think it is much too soon to be calling for jobs. I can see why you chose your user name lol.

It won't be 'too soon' for in-demand verbal commits to jump if this continues.  Do you think Caden Curry doesn't pay attention?

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6 minutes ago, Bad Brad said:

Nope.  I'm not getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get it done, the same way you aren't.  It doesn't take a 'coach' to see BAD.  Since these 2 have been responsible for run blocking, pass protection, play calling, the offense has been embarrassing ineffective.  Can't run,...and with the exception of the desperate last half effort vs OSU (while they were in a prevent defense) can't put up an effective pass attack. As a result, are unable to win time of possession, putting the owness on the exceptional defense.  So far, Hiller has not been able to secure a 4* OL'man.  That says volumes.  That's only the 'tip of the iceberg'.  I plan to have more after the Vandals invade Bloomington.

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2022/dj-moore-259828

I don't want facts to get in the way of your rant. Also.. OSU plays "prevent" on no one. Cover 1 with their athletes and that's it. There so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start. What do you plan on having after the IU/Idaho game? lol 

Time of possession is an archaic stat, generally. We actually had more time with the ball than Iowa. It's honestly astonishing to me someone can watch that game and think the offensive play calling was the problem. I'll admit.. for sure a make or break year for Hiller, but "he" is bringing in by far our best OL recruiting class, on paper, for 2022. So, we'll see. Other than that.. I just don't see enough talent up front, now I agree, that's his job... but it isn't the play calling. sorry.. it just isn't. We can have the cutest little plays in the world... if your Jimmies and Joes can't execute them, they're irrelevant. 

And yep, I'm not getting paid to coach, you're right. But I've been in Sheridan's shoes, thankfully, not as often as he is. 

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3 hours ago, btownqb said:

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2022/dj-moore-259828

I don't want facts to get in the way of your rant. Also.. OSU plays "prevent" on no one. Cover 1 with their athletes and that's it. There so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start. What do you plan on having after the IU/Idaho game? lol 

Time of possession is an archaic stat, generally. We actually had more time with the ball than Iowa. It's honestly astonishing to me someone can watch that game and think the offensive play calling was the problem. I'll admit.. for sure a make or break year for Hiller, but "he" is bringing in by far our best OL recruiting class, on paper, for 2022. So, we'll see. Other than that.. I just don't see enough talent up front, now I agree, that's his job... but it isn't the play calling. sorry.. it just isn't. We can have the cutest little plays in the world... if your Jimmies and Joes can't execute them, they're irrelevant. 

And yep, I'm not getting paid to coach, you're right. But I've been in Sheridan's shoes, thankfully, not as often as he is. 

As Urban Meyer told Gerry D'Nardo in an interview 3 years ago:  "Gerry, I had drawers full of applications.  If a guy can't recruit, I can't use him."  As for the offense v Iowa.  Yes, MP was uncomfortable.  With no one being open the entire game would make Tom Brady look uncomfortable.  That's why Brady's pass plays are designed to get rid of the ball in 2.3 seconds.  By the way, ..'up and coming' is for hugely successful coordinators in NAIA, D3, D2 or non power 5 conferences,..not learning the trade at this level making umpteen thousands of $'s.  What successful record does NS have except landing a juicy gig?  In spite of last years 6-2 record, IU's offense per play from scrimmage was 12th out of 14 teams.  That speaks for itself.  Finally, the only 'RANTING' is eminating from your myopic, in-denial viewpoint. If you want to make it personal, you might be messing with the wrong person.

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20 minutes ago, Bad Brad said:

As Urban Meyer told Gerry D'Nardo in an interview 3 years ago:  "Gerry, I had drawers full of applications.  If a guy can't recruit, I can't use him."  As for the offense v Iowa.  Yes, MP was uncomfortable.  With no one being open the entire game would make Tom Brady look uncomfortable.  That's why Brady's pass plays are designed to get rid of the ball in 2.3 seconds.  By the way, ..'up and coming' is for hugely successful coordinators in NAIA, D3, D2 or non power 5 conferences,..not learning the trade at this level making umpteen thousands of $'s.  What successful record does NS have except landing a juicy gig?  In spite of last years 6-2 record, IU's offense per play from scrimmage was 12th out of 14 teams.  That speaks for itself.  Finally, the only 'RANTING' is eminating from your myopic, in-denial viewpoint. If you want to make it personal, you might be messing with the wrong person.

I gave you an example of him having a 4 star OL committed. As if when CTA hired Hiller he just had sooooo many options. I'm sure it was just like Meyer had, jeeze. 

Your Urban Meyer quote just proved my point about Sheridan though... He doesn't have the jimmies upfront to judge him. Not even close to an even playing field. There were plenty of WRs open all day. 

As far as the puffing out the chest.. just dump that. It's unneeded and childish. "messing with the wrong person" this is a message board... and you just don't like my opinion. I mean sorry I see it differently than you do. Quite honestly I think this whole thread is bogus. I never said anything about NS being "up in coming". I have no clue. I wish we'd check out some of the things Mike Leonard did at Franklin though. That dude can coach offense, I played under him. Innovation works great when you can block. 

Did you think, with our OL, WRs, and RBs and QB coming off a season ending injury... that we were going to go up to Iowa and run rampant on them? 

You are literally asking for people's jobs one game into the season lol 

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12 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I gave you an example of him having a 4 star OL committed. As if when CTA hired Hiller he just had sooooo many options. I'm sure it was just like Meyer had, jeeze. 

Your Urban Meyer quote just proved my point about Sheridan though... He doesn't have the jimmies upfront to judge him. Not even close to an even playing field. There were plenty of WRs open all day. 

As far as the puffing out the chest.. just dump that. It's unneeded and childish. "messing with the wrong person" this is a message board... and you just don't like my opinion. I mean sorry I see it differently than you do. Quite honestly I think this whole thread is bogus. I never said anything about NS being "up in coming". I have no clue. I wish we'd check out some of the things Mike Leonard did at Franklin though. That dude can coach offense, I played under him. Innovation works great when you can block. 

Did you think, with our OL, WRs, and RBs and QB coming off a season ending injury... that we were going to go up to Iowa and run rampant on them? 

You are literally asking for people's jobs one game into the season lol 

The ole miss bowl game was a debacle too for the O.  I think this year he needs to prove he belongs.  He shouldn't be fired now, but the last two games have been pretty sad.

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6 minutes ago, hoosierhoosier said:

The ole miss bowl game was a debacle too for the O.  I think this year he needs to prove he belongs.  He shouldn't be fired now, but the last two games have been pretty sad.

What do you want him to do with that OL? Heck let alone in the bowl game we were on our second string QB that was obviously hurt. We also had essentially zero bowl prep because of the amount of people we had with Covid... INCLUDING Sheridan. 

I just think there are too many people that see things in a vaccuum. We only put up 14 against UW and I didn't see anyone complaining. Don't you remember the Bowl game against Tennessee? Offense was HORRENDOUS that night. Sheridan didn't call the offense that night. I remember exactly zero innovation in the Tennessee game... why? we couldn't block them. 

If it wasn't for Peyton Ramsey's legs... we wouldn't have scored that night. And that's what we're missing with Penix. He is zero threat other than standing still and throwing. He can evade anyone, he can't extend plays and make a play, and he is zero threat to run. All of that, coupled with our lack of talent on the OL... it's mixings for a disaster, as we saw Saturday. 

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17 hours ago, btownqb said:

What do you want him to do with that OL? Heck let alone in the bowl game we were on our second string QB that was obviously hurt. We also had essentially zero bowl prep because of the amount of people we had with Covid... INCLUDING Sheridan. 

I just think there are too many people that see things in a vaccuum. We only put up 14 against UW and I didn't see anyone complaining. Don't you remember the Bowl game against Tennessee? Offense was HORRENDOUS that night. Sheridan didn't call the offense that night. I remember exactly zero innovation in the Tennessee game... why? we couldn't block them. 

If it wasn't for Peyton Ramsey's legs... we wouldn't have scored that night. And that's what we're missing with Penix. He is zero threat other than standing still and throwing. He can evade anyone, he can't extend plays and make a play, and he is zero threat to run. All of that, coupled with our lack of talent on the OL... it's mixings for a disaster, as we saw Saturday. 

I truly hope he works out, i really do, but there are red flags...let's just leave it at that. 
The thing that concerned me about the ole miss game is that he knew Tuttle couldn't throw due to injury, but we kept on throwing.  On top of that the running game was actually working, but he stuck to calling passing plays for an injured qb.

Hopefully, the iowa game woke penix up, b/c it is hard to look past his poor performance.

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