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Starting Lineup for the First Game of the Mike Woodson Era?


IUFLA
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I know we don't have much to go on, but the starting 5 from both games in the Bahamas was...

TJD 

Race 

Kopp 

Stewart 

XJ  

I know Kopp is at best a mediocre defender, and I haven't seen Parker Stewart play...if anyone on the starting 5 is in jeopardy, I'd think it'd be one of those two, with Jordan Geronimo or Trey Galloway waiting in the wings...

But, I think Coach Woody will probably go with the same 5 he did on the Bahama trip...

 

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5 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

That's probably correct but I expect Bates and Geronimo to start eventually. 

I think it'll be interesting to see how Coach Woody brings Tamar along...he was effective coming off the bench in the Bahamas, but you're right in that he and Geronimo have the highest upside on both sides of the ball...

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20 minutes ago, DWB said:

I also believe we are much deeper than many think with little, if any, falloff.

I think so too. And we're deep at every position. 

We've also increased our experience. 

Depth and experience are a good recipe for success in what promises to be another rugged Big 10 season...

 

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20 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'll believe IU is deep when I see it. We say this every preseason, but typically what it really ends up meaning is that nobody from guy 4-9 or so has separated themselves. 

So the fact that we have 4 big guys (rather than the 2 we had last year after it was determined Joey Brunk wasn't going to play) isn't an increase in depth? I think it is no matter how you slice it. 

I said at the beginning of last year that if Al Durham was a starter, IU would not contend for a Big 10 title. Now, both of our guards have been replaced as starters (one relegated to a back-up role, the other transferred)...who did we have at guard last year that had the experience and defensive prowess of a Rob Phinisee?

 

I understand the skepticism, especially after these last few years, but I think we are indeed deeper than we have been...

At least we aren't going to be asking a 6'6" freshman to guard the Big 10 player of the year or have a 3 star freshman starting...

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19 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

So the fact that we have 4 big guys (rather than the 2 we had last year after it was determined Joey Brunk wasn't going to play) isn't an increase in depth? I think it is no matter how you slice it. 

I said at the beginning of last year that if Al Durham was a starter, IU would not contend for a Big 10 title. Now, both of our guards have been replaced as starters (one relegated to a back-up role, the other transferred)...who did we have at guard last year that had the experience and defensive prowess of a Rob Phinisee?

 

I understand the skepticism, especially after these last few years, but I think we are indeed deeper than we have been...

At least we aren't going to be asking a 6'6" freshman to guard the Big 10 player of the year or have a 3 star freshman starting...

Define depth. A warm body big man is not "depth". We have no idea what to expect from Durr or Duncomb. We really don't know if Leal can contribute, and Galloway was pretty up and down last year. Same with Lander. Geronimo is going to need to show more than a few flashes.

I think Bgleas' point is, come crunch time in a critical game, do you really think the people I named above will be trusted enough to get in the game? 

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12 minutes ago, ephul said:

We have no idea what to expect from Durr or Duncomb. We really don't know if Leal can contribute, and Galloway was pretty up and down last year. Same with Lander. Geronimo is going to need to show more than a few flashes.

I think Bgleas' point is, come crunch time in a critical game, do you really think the people I named above will be trusted enough to get in the game? 

Very valid concerns. But IMO I think Durr can be trusted (if needed) in crunch time as he has the experience that Logan doesn't. And I'm on board with you about Duncomb. Personally, I think Leal will surprise a bunch of people this year. He could very well be one of those players who makes a big leap with Woody's style of play. Nobody knows for sure, so we'll see. I also think Geronimo will play major minutes, even in crunch time, depending on the opposition.

Lander is the real question mark for me. Hope he makes a huge leap, but need to see it first.

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23 minutes ago, ephul said:

Define depth. A warm body big man is not "depth". We have no idea what to expect from Durr or Duncomb. We really don't know if Leal can contribute, and Galloway was pretty up and down last year. Same with Lander. Geronimo is going to need to show more than a few flashes.

I think Bgleas' point is, come crunch time in a critical game, do you really think the people I named above will be trusted enough to get in the game? 

Depth to me means there's not a precipitous drop off when someone on your bench comes in for a starter...Coach Woody said when XJ got into foul trouble against BC Mega, Rob came in and there was no drop off...

And we do indeed have at least an inkling of what Durr brings...he's played D1 basketball for 3 years and averaged 9 pts and 8 boards a game...Good FT shooter (82% last year) and a decent rim presence (6th in the AAC in blocks)...he'll be a welcome presence in getting our bigs some rest and in battling the Kofi Cockburns, Hunter Dickinsons, and Zach Edeys of the world...I think you'd have to admit, he's a better alternative than Jordan Geronimo guarding the post...

In a critical game, we want out 5 best eligible (i.e. haven't fouled out or been injured) in the game...We really don't have any choice in that matter, but to play what we have available at the time...So I guess I'm not understanding the point that you're trying to make there...

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I'll believe IU is deep when I see it. We say this every preseason, but typically what it really ends up meaning is that nobody from guy 4-9 or so has separated themselves. 

I think every fanbase does this to some extent. Not knowing who will play significant minutes from among 10-11 players, fans tend to jump to the wished-for conclusion that their team is deep and that everyone will contribute in some meaningful way. 

 

I still remember the discussions about how our 2012-13 squad would be the deepest IU team ever....then we proceeded to run our starting five into the ground because our bench was so terrible. 

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

I'll believe IU is deep when I see it. We say this every preseason, but typically what it really ends up meaning is that nobody from guy 4-9 or so has separated themselves. 

Was about to say the same thing.  Been fooled too many times lately thinking we were deep only to find out differently.  Here's to having an injury free  season.

Go Hoosiers!!!

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29 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

Been fooled too many times lately thinking we were deep only to find out differently.  Here's to having an injury free  season.

You're right of course, but if you don't get playing time and experience, you'll never be any better. A lot of guys on the bench would be better if Archie had played them more and not been so damn stubborn about starting 5 and the 4 minute rotation regardless of quality of play...IMO

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3 hours ago, BGleas said:

I'll believe IU is deep when I see it. We say this every preseason, but typically what it really ends up meaning is that nobody from guy 4-9 or so has separated themselves. 

You are always so negative. This is why nobody likes you. Probably why you are a Celtics fan too. 🤷 

 

(Love ya B !)

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4 hours ago, DWB said:

Very valid concerns. But IMO I think Durr can be trusted (if needed) in crunch time as he has the experience that Logan doesn't. And I'm on board with you about Duncomb. Personally, I think Leal will surprise a bunch of people this year. He could very well be one of those players who makes a big leap with Woody's style of play. Nobody knows for sure, so we'll see. I also think Geronimo will play major minutes, even in crunch time, depending on the opposition.

Lander is the real question mark for me. Hope he makes a huge leap, but need to see it first.

Durr has never played B10 ball, although I agree... out of all of them, I think he can admirably fill a Deron Davis type role.

As for the rest? Who knows. We shall see.

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4 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Depth to me means there's not a precipitous drop off when someone on your bench comes in for a starter...Coach Woody said when XJ got into foul trouble against BC Mega, Rob came in and there was no drop off...

And we do indeed have at least an inkling of what Durr brings...he's played D1 basketball for 3 years and averaged 9 pts and 8 boards a game...Good FT shooter (82% last year) and a decent rim presence (6th in the AAC in blocks)...he'll be a welcome presence in getting our bigs some rest and in battling the Kofi Cockburns, Hunter Dickinsons, and Zach Edeys of the world...I think you'd have to admit, he's a better alternative than Jordan Geronimo guarding the post...

In a critical game, we want out 5 best eligible (i.e. haven't fouled out or been injured) in the game...We really don't have any choice in that matter, but to play what we have available at the time...So I guess I'm not understanding the point that you're trying to make there...

The point is, Woodson is saying he could so the majority of players getting minutes. My point is, he's optimistic and we don't really know. We hear that every year.

I agree with you on Durr. He is the most ready to play, and should be able to log some valuable minutes. The rest that I named? We don't know, and I think most would agree, we aren't playing 10+ players. The rotation will tighten up to 8-9 come B10 time.

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"Deep" doesn't get you very far in college basketball. If you have a bunch of players on your bench you can use without much dropoff in production, it means you don't have many studs in the starting lineup. I'd much rather have four or five guys we knew for sure would be starting. Instead, it's Trayce and four question marks.

My hope is that some of these guys are question marks only because they're new to the program. That they'll prove to be studs in their new setting. If it doesn't happen this year, then it needs to happen in the coming years with more guys like Bates, Hood-Schifino and Newton. We need to upgrade the talent in this program. As we transition from the Archie era to the Woodson era, I want to read discussions about our potential multiple All-Americans, not whether we might be ten or twelve deep.

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15 hours ago, ephul said:

The point is, Woodson is saying he could so the majority of players getting minutes. My point is, he's optimistic and we don't really know. We hear that every year.

I agree with you on Durr. He is the most ready to play, and should be able to log some valuable minutes. The rest that I named? We don't know, and I think most would agree, we aren't playing 10+ players. The rotation will tighten up to 8-9 come B10 time.

But I think we can at least reasonably assume that at least the first 3 off the bench this year are better than what we had last year. We have one former starter (Rob), one kid that's played 3 years of college ball and hasn't faired too poorly (Durr), and a 5 Star recruit (Tamar)...last year it was Jerome Hunter and then the 4 freshmen.

If anyone is overly optimistic, it'd be me...Coach Woody is of course saying things that build confidence, but he strikes me as a straight shooter...and he knows the game better than any of us. 

I start these threads to stimulate conversation, not as declarations of being "right." I appreciate alternative viewpoints and the conversation as a whole...

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