rico Posted December 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2021 41 minutes ago, dgambill said: Don’t worry. We still have several of Archie’s recruits left on the roster. I mean we prioritized Lander over Ivey. When it comes to recruiting... Painter>Miller 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 No real reason to post this here but I will. I just watched an old IU game from 1986 against Michigan. Why I am posting this is that I don't remember seeing both teams shoot so well from the field. UM was 12-0 coming into this game game and it was the opening game of the conference. UM won 74-70 but in the second half IU shot 20-25 from th field. For the game IU shot 72 percent from the field and UM shot 58 percent. Also don't remember to many games in AH where the opponent outscored a RMK from the line by so much. UM hit 26 free throws to IU 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_iu_bb Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 On 12/25/2021 at 6:33 AM, rico said: When it comes to recruiting... Painter>Miller The qualifier isn't needed. Painter is a better coach than Miller all the way around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 On 12/25/2021 at 7:33 AM, rico said: When it comes to recruiting... Painter>Miller I'd say evaluation and development for sure...As far as ratings go (and I know a lot of people say they're worthless, but it's the only measurable we have to go on) Miller out recruited Painter every year he was here... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: I'd say evaluation and development for sure...As far as ratings go (and I know a lot of people say they're worthless, but it's the only measurable we have to go on) Miller out recruited Painter every year he was here... All that matters is 0-7....honestly...no matter how your measuring all the other things...it shows up in the records...and it wasn't even a close 0-7. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 minute ago, dgambill said: All that matters is 0-7....honestly...no matter how your measuring all the other things...it shows up in the records...and it wasn't even a close 0-7. Not arguing that at all...I just think the beating of the dead horse in any way possible is a little old... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 Just now, IUFLA said: Not arguing that at all...I just think the beating of the dead horse in any way possible is a little old... It is what it is....you don't know your history you are doomed to repeat it. I mean we reminisce of all the great and bad Knight teams. Nothing wrong with discussing the past. Unfortunately for many people on this forum (not all though)...we've been bad more than good for most of their lives. Just the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 Coaching comments always make me cringe. you think MP knows some secret that AM doesn’t? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 6 minutes ago, dgambill said: It is what it is....you don't know your history you are doomed to repeat it. I mean we reminisce of all the great and bad Knight teams. Nothing wrong with discussing the past. Unfortunately for many people on this forum (not all though)...we've been bad more than good for most of their lives. Just the truth. None of it justifies the constant Archie bashing at every turn...he's gone...some people need to get over it..... New era...Keep looking in the rear view mirror and you can't see what's coming... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: None of it justifies the constant Archie bashing at every turn...he's gone...some people need to get over it..... New era...Keep looking in the rear view mirror and you can't see what's coming... Should we not talk about Bobby Knight? He is gone....let's stop discussing him and that history too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 minute ago, dgambill said: Should we not talk about Bobby Knight? He is gone....let's stop discussing him and that history too! Yes, new board rule. No discussing Archie. Knight or covid! 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 Just now, bluegrassIU said: Yes, new board rule. No discussing Archie. Knight or covid! The Mod has spoken.....just so you know I am waiting on my updated terms of agreement lol!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 minute ago, dgambill said: Should we not talk about Bobby Knight? He is gone....let's stop discussing him and that history too! It's not the overall history we discuss that bothers me...It's the distortion of that history to fit a certain narrative that does... Saying Painter out recruited Archie is not true in my humble opinion...Was anyone speaking out negatively after Archie's first true class of Langford, Hunter, Anderson, Phinisee, and Forrester? I don't remember it... As I said, according to the recruiting services, Painter never came close... Now, was Porkchop better at evaluating talent? I'd say so...Did he develop his players better? Undoubtedly... But that's water under the bridge...As I said, he's gone...Let's move on... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 Think the Archie wound is still too raw....going to drop it. Folks just let me know when it's safe to discuss anything Archie when there is enough water under the bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, dgambill said: Think the Archie wound is still too raw....going to drop it. Folks just let me know when it's safe to discuss anything Archie when there is enough water under the bridge. Not at all...Hey, I was one of the guys biggest supporters, and to be honest, I'm glad (now) that we made a change, and I love how Coach Woody has come in and gotten us back on track to be "Indiana" again... But I also believe in fairness... Archie coached a certain way...To me, much like Tony Bennett at UVA...Would he have ever won a championship at IU? I don't know...I doubt it...The one Bennett won had a few fortunate bounces, but get into the tournament and you never know...Archie's offense was old school, and his defense has already been shown to be worse than what we have today... In hindsight, I don't think Archie was good at player development, handling the egos, or discipline...Overall, his leadership lacked... He got the parts...he just didn't develop them or know how to motivate them... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_iu_bb Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: It's not the overall history we discuss that bothers me...It's the distortion of that history to fit a certain narrative that does... Saying Painter out recruited Archie is not true in my humble opinion...Was anyone speaking out negatively after Archie's first true class of Langford, Hunter, Anderson, Phinisee, and Forrester? I don't remember it... As I said, according to the recruiting services, Painter never came close... Now, was Porkchop better at evaluating talent? I'd say so...Did he develop his players better? Undoubtedly... But that's water under the bridge...As I said, he's gone...Let's move on... Painter beat out Miller to land Newman, Morton, Kaufman, and Furst. Miller landed a few that Purdue was also recruiting but even in recruiting Painter did pretty well against Miller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said: Painter beat out Miller to land Newman, Morton, Kaufman, and Furst. Miller landed a few that Purdue was also recruiting but even in recruiting Painter did pretty well against Miller. I think overall class rank was what was compared vs. head to head recruiting. I'd say without a doubt, the Kaufman-Furst class Painter won both head to head and rank-wise, but I think Miller in general, had higher-ranked classes during his tenure. Obviously did not translate on the court, which was incredibly frustrating. I'm looking forward to seeing that trend reversed in a big way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said: Painter beat out Miller to land Newman, Morton, Kaufman, and Furst. Miller landed a few that Purdue was also recruiting but even in recruiting Painter did pretty well against Miller. In his first class, Langford, Phinisee, and Hunter had Purdue offers... In his second, both TJD and Franklin had Purdue offers In his 3rd, Lander, and Galloway had Purdue offers My opinion that that list is a little better than the one you offered...Particularly in the 4-5 star category...Langford and TJD were major triumphs for Archie... In just beating out the other, I'd say Archie is ahead...In evaluation and development is where he suffered... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 minute ago, FKIM01 said: I think overall class rank was what was compared vs. head to head recruiting. I'd say without a doubt, the Kaufman-Furst class Painter won both head to head and rank-wise, but I think Miller in general, had higher-ranked classes during his tenure. Obviously did not translate on the court, which was incredibly frustrating. I'm looking forward to seeing that trend reversed in a big way. You said it better than I did, but yeah, that's what I was thinking too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 I don't think there's a player in that group that mystifies me any more than Hunter. Yeah, he had a leg condition that took him out, but I don't think he's ever sniffed the talent he showed before since that layoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 minute ago, FKIM01 said: I don't think there's a player in that group that mystifies me any more than Hunter. Yeah, he had a leg condition that took him out, but I don't think he's ever sniffed the talent he showed before since that layoff. The other thing is how well Purdue's lower rated commits have done... Trevion Williams was rated 154 nationally and weighed 320 lbs plus...I don't think anyone saw that he was going to be anything more than an Oliver Miller (no relation to Archie, BTW ) type... Edey, for Christ Sakes was rated at 440... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted December 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 5 hours ago, IUFLA said: I'd say evaluation and development for sure...As far as ratings go (and I know a lot of people say they're worthless, but it's the only measurable we have to go on) Miller out recruited Painter every year he was here... I would say that evaluation goes hand in hand with recruiting. And in that case... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: Edey, for Christ Sakes was rated at 440... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 37 minutes ago, rico said: I would say that evaluation goes hand in hand with recruiting. And in that case... In a sense, yes it does...But I'd say the development plays a bigger role once the coach has his player... But the recruiting services can't be THAT wrong... In Archie's first class (5 players) our lowest rated recruit (Jake Forrester at 147) was rated higher than Purdue's (3 players) highest rated recruit (Eric Hunter at 150) I'm not going to step through each class, but it's pretty clear from the rankings that in raw recruiting terms, it's Archie by a mile...Like I said, I'll give some on the evaluation, and a lot on the development... The thing that really killed Archie was Romeo leaving early (I dare say if he'd stayed for another year he could have been our better version of Ayo or Ivey if Archie had been smart enough to give him that kind of freedom) and Hunter's mysterious leg issue... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 6 minutes ago, IUFLA said: The thing that really killed Archie was Romeo leaving early (I dare say if he'd stayed for another year he could have been our better version of Ayo or Ivey if Archie had been smart enough to give him that kind of freedom) and Hunter's mysterious leg issue... Archie making the same argument 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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