St. John’s Post Game

[5fouls]

5 hours ago, bluegrassIU said:

This talk is such fan tall.

 

What does my height have to do with anything? 

Geronimo is more than just a spark.  Truthfully, I forgot about Race when I made the '3rd best player comment'.  So, we can adjust that to 4th.  

But, I have a strong feeling that we will be talking about Geronimo in the way we did OG or even Vic before his time at IU is done.

 

[btownqb]

26 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I agree. My question though is what is more likely or beneficial in the long run in these next cupcake games, trying to get Phinisee right or getting Lander some consistent minutes to see if it "clicks" for him. 

I'm torn, because I believe Lander is pretty overrated but is there potential there, and I agree with you that Phinisee is pretty far ahead currently. But man, Phinisee's weaknesses haven't gotten better in three years, which can be frustrating. 

Yep. KL gotta earn it, or it won't be worth it in the long run, anyway. Sink or swim. 

[bluegrassIU]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

What does my height have to do with anything? 

Geronimo is more than just a spark.  Truthfully, I forgot about Race when I made the '3rd best player comment'.  So, we can adjust that to 4th.  

But, I have a strong feeling that we will be talking about Geronimo in the way we did OG or even Vic before his time at IU is done.

 

Shut up, shorty!

[bluegrassIU]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

What does my height have to do with anything? 

Geronimo is more than just a spark.  Truthfully, I forgot about Race when I made the '3rd best player comment'.  So, we can adjust that to 4th.  

But, I have a strong feeling that we will be talking about Geronimo in the way we did OG or even Vic before his time at IU is done.

 

Agree with the overall take on Geronimo, honestly. We may differ on the timeline slightly. But overall, agreed.

[Hoosier51]

6 hours ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Finally, was it just me or was Bardo trying to set a new record for the most awful takes in a single game?  Sorry but that guy sucks.

Yeah i usually don't mind Bardo but man last night i was just wanting him to shut up.

[02Hoosier]

1 hour ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

He is a Senior who has how many games played under his belt and he still cannot finish at the rim, hit his free throws, shoot the 3 consistently or understand he is a better mid range shooter.  Its isn't going to click for Rob.  He is what he is.  Sometimes, potential just doesn't show itself at this level.  He might have been better off going to a less competitive program.  His defense is really important, but he didn't shut down Champagnie last night, no one could to be honest.  

I say you give Lander a long long leash for the next 3 cupcakes, you know what you have in Rob, and see if Lander can move the needle to where we hope it can be.

Was Champagnie Rob’s assignment? I’m willing to assume he was guarding the pg 90% of the possessions he was on the court. Not sure you can hold him accountable for that.

[IUFLA]

2 hours ago, btownqb said:

There wasn't enough information from last night to draw that conclusion. The other game was against Northern ILL. 

He committed 3 fouls in 6 mins. That is bad. Shooting wise, they're no different. KL has not shown, at all, the ability to play big mins, especially against any sort of competition. 

Rob simply offers more than KL, right now. 

Lander played 6 valuable minutes at crunch time...I know it's a small sample size, but I rewatched the whole second half. Rob was uncharacteristically inconsistent on the defensive end. The calf might have had something to do with it, but it wasn't a typical Rob defensive performance.

As for Khristian's fouls, the first one was a body to body...the type they let go a lot, but they called it. The second on was BS. Out of bounds play and he slipped a screen. His man grabbed his arm (you could see his elbow sleeve in its normal position, until the STJ kid grabbed KL's arm and pulled the sleeve down onto his wrist) then slipped and fell down.

As I said, I'm with you 100% on D...but watching both deal with St John's pressure, Khristian looked much more comfortable...

I think a lot of Rob's offensive woes are between his ears. His confidence on the offensive end is low...

Edited November 19, 2021 by IUFLA

[mrflynn03]

One thing that feels different to me about this season is I see continuous improvement.  I don't see this team regressing of getting in a funk. Woody won't allow that to happen. 

We will lose games here and the but the losing streaks of the last few years aren't going to happen. 

[02Hoosier]

I’m willing to stick my neck out in support of Rob. It feels like some of us here have unrealistic expectations for him. He’s not going to be your 2nd or 3rd leading scorer on any given night and he’s not a dynamic playmaker. He hasn’t been that the past 3 years and that’s not going to magically change under a new coach. I remember some dubbing him as the next Yogi for our team and people probably expect him to live up to that standard, which is pretty unfair to him. 

What he does bring is relentless aggressive defense and is always bringing effort. If anyone was paying attention there were multiple plays in the first half where St Johns turned it over and Rob was always in on the action. He was only credited for 1 steal on the night but his impact was far more than that. Rob’s not going to fill the stat sheet every night, and that’s fine. He doesn’t have to. He can impact the game in different ways. 

Now I’m not saying he isn’t free of criticism. When he’s the primary ball handler on the court he dribbled too much at the top of the key and the offense can’t get anything going. I think he’s still plagued by having the previous coach’s play style beat into his brain for the past 3 years. But, he’s gotta be able to learn to play differently. I’d love to see him play alongside XJ and even Galloway (which doesn’t look likely anymore). Those two guys are good ballhandlers that Rob can pass off to and they can help initiate the offense. I think Rob would do much better offensively if he can play off the ball more. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by 02Hoosier

[btownqb]

2 hours ago, mrflynn03 said:

One thing that feels different to me about this season is I see continuous improvement.  I don't see this team regressing of getting in a funk. Woody won't allow that to happen. 

We will lose games here and the but the losing streaks of the last few years aren't going to happen. 

Correct. Were we really even THAT much better than many Archie Miller performances? No, I truly don't think so.. but we won. W 

3-0 feeling good today moving on. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by btownqb

[btownqb]

9 hours ago, dgambill said:

Geronimo needs to be taking all of Galloway's minutes and sliding over to give Race a break as well. Basically he needs to be in for Kopp/Race whenever either sits....heck I may even say playing the 5 and go small when Trayce get's a breather too over Durr.

Galloway and JG are entirely different roles. Their mins don't take from each other. 

[OGIUAndy]

21 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Lander played 6 valuable minutes at crunch time...I know it's a small sample size, but I rewatched the whole second half. Rob was uncharacteristically inconsistent on the defensive end. The calf might have had something to do with it, but it wasn't a typical Rob defensive performance.

As for Khristian's fouls, the first one was a body to body...the type they let go a lot, but they called it. The second on was BS. Out of bounds play and he slipped a screen. His man grabbed his arm (you could see his elbow sleeve in its normal position, until the STJ kid grabbed KL's arm and pulled the sleeve down onto his wrist) then slipped and fell down.

As I said, I'm with you 100% on D...but watching both deal with St John's pressure, Khristian looked much more comfortable...

I think a lot of Rob's offensive woes are between his ears. His confidence on the offensive end is low...

Lander will get more PT, especially against smaller lineups

[5fouls]

22 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Galloway and JG are entirely different roles. Their mins don't take from each other. 

Trayce, Durr, and Duncomb are post

X and Lander are points

The other 8 guys can play multiple roles, within many different combinations, depending on matchuos.  Some combinations may be better than others.  But, it's totally reasonable to think some of Galloway's 15-20 minutes a game will find their way to Geronimo until Trey returns.  

[HoosierDPU95]

5 hours ago, Inequality said:

Why the hate on RP? For three years he was taught to dribble around the arc while the team is executing an action play. Yeah it bothers me as well. Especially when he overlooks a wide open TJD. Maybe in time he will get past that or even come in as a 2. 

The kid can play defense. Best defending guard on the team IMO. He is super strong for B1G play and has mega hops.

If you watched his high school game any at all you would see he can score. Ehh I think his average was 22ppg?

He has great form on his shot. Huge elevation. They just have not dropped consistently. 

Nvm the fact of being an Indiana kid from cow country that wanted to play ball for IU. Good grief

Form and elevation in action

[5fouls]

Conceptually, there should be times where we can get Rob's defense in the game without putting him at the point.  He's more effective in that role.  Lander can be the primary backup PG against certain teams/matchups while Rob can get some time off the ball.  You get Rob's defense without bogging down the offense in the process.  

[HoosierDPU95]

35 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Conceptually, there should be times where we can get Rob's defense in the game without putting him at the point.  He's more effective in that role.  Lander can be the primary backup PG against certain teams/matchups while Rob can get some time off the ball.  You get Rob's defense without bogging down the offense in the process.  

💯

[btownqb]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

Trayce, Durr, and Duncomb are post

X and Lander are points

The other 8 guys can play multiple roles, within many different combinations, depending on matchuos.  Some combinations may be better than others.  But, it's totally reasonable to think some of Galloway's 15-20 minutes a game will find their way to Geronimo until Trey returns.  

I don't think so at all. Maybe next year. Geronimo isn't a 3, at least yet. He's literally the most "4" (modern day) that we have. If he's 6'8 everyone's views are different. Look at his skill set. (For now)

He didn't play any wing last night. We also don't need another wing, I don't think. Bates is going to play A LOT.

He's better than Durr. Duncomb hasn't played a minute. He is like Anunoby as a FR. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by btownqb

[btownqb]

1 hour ago, OGIUAndy said:

Lander will get more PT, especially against smaller lineups

That's probably one of the shortest teams we'll play. 

[OGIUAndy]

13 minutes ago, btownqb said:

That's probably one of the shortest teams we'll play. 

He’ll play. 

[Artesian_86]

4 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

Like Tom Allen, RP is abysmal.   Better to cut bait now than wait for the inevitable.  KL will transfer if he doesn't get minutes now.  

Come on…. Really? Good grief……

[btownqb]

17 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Come on…. Really? Good grief……

BH.. dont fall for it. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

4 hours ago, 02Hoosier said:

I’m willing to stick my neck out in support of Rob. It feels like some of us here have unrealistic expectations for him. He’s not going to be your 2nd or 3rd leading scorer on any given night and he’s not a dynamic playmaker. He hasn’t been that the past 3 years and that’s not going to magically change under a new coach. I remember some dubbing him as the next Yogi for our team and people probably expect him to live up to that standard, which is pretty unfair to him. 

What he does bring is relentless aggressive defense and is always bringing effort. If anyone was paying attention there were multiple plays in the first half where St Johns turned it over and Rob was always in on the action. He was only credited for 1 steal on the night but his impact was far more than that. Rob’s not going to fill the stat sheet every night, and that’s fine. He doesn’t have to. He can impact the game in different ways. 

Now I’m not saying he isn’t free of criticism. When he’s the primary ball handler on the court he dribbled too much at the top of the key and the offense can’t get anything going. I think he’s still plagued by having the previous coach’s play style beat into his brain for the past 3 years. But, he’s gotta be able to learn to play differently. I’d love to see him play alongside XJ and even Galloway (which doesn’t look likely anymore). Those two guys are good ballhandlers that Rob can pass off to and they can help initiate the offense. I think Rob would do much better offensively if he can play off the ball more. 

Finishing at the rim, not coaching fault. Making Free throws, not a coaching fault.  Missing wide open 3 point shots, not a coaching fault.  Dribbling endlessly around the key, sure we can blame that on CAM.  Dribble driving into double teams and floor vision, could be coaching fault.  Defensive aggressiveness and tenacity, combination of coaching and natural talent.

There is some things that can be blamed on coaching.  But some of these are things he should be able to do regardless of who is coaching.  Shooting Free Throws is all on him.  Making open shots, all on him.  Finishing at the rim, especially for someone with his elevation, on him and coaching.

The problem with rob, is even if you take him off the point, he still can't score for you like you want and makes terrible decisions with the ball when he has it.  

On the good side though, he can be a pretty above average defender who is aggressive and tenacious. 

He should be a matchup or in desperate need sub.  He shouldn't be the first PG off the bench.  Our defense is pretty good without him on the floor, but our offense is worst when he is.  Scoring wins games.  And we need scorers.

I like Rob, thought he was going to be better than he is.  Unfortunately, he isn't 

[KoB2011]

27 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Finishing at the rim, not coaching fault. Making Free throws, not a coaching fault.  Missing wide open 3 point shots, not a coaching fault.  Dribbling endlessly around the key, sure we can blame that on CAM.  Dribble driving into double teams and floor vision, could be coaching fault.  Defensive aggressiveness and tenacity, combination of coaching and natural talent.

There is some things that can be blamed on coaching.  But some of these are things he should be able to do regardless of who is coaching.  Shooting Free Throws is all on him.  Making open shots, all on him.  Finishing at the rim, especially for someone with his elevation, on him and coaching.

The problem with rob, is even if you take him off the point, he still can't score for you like you want and makes terrible decisions with the ball when he has it.  

On the good side though, he can be a pretty above average defender who is aggressive and tenacious. 

He should be a matchup or in desperate need sub.  He shouldn't be the first PG off the bench.  Our defense is pretty good without him on the floor, but our offense is worst when he is.  Scoring wins games.  And we need scorers.

I like Rob, thought he was going to be better than he is.  Unfortunately, he isn't 

I agree with a lot of this. He gives us a lot on defense, but we lose a lot on offense and I'd rather see what Lander can give on offense, knowing we have a good defense behind him. 

[btownqb]

6 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I agree with a lot of this. He gives us a lot on defense, but we lose a lot on offense and I'd rather see what Lander can give on offense, knowing we have a good defense behind him. 

I don't see anything we lose on offense with Rob that we gain with Lander. Neither are very good offensively, at all.  

I dont see Lander as a viable option, for now. 

[btownqb]

7 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Finishing at the rim, not coaching fault. Making Free throws, not a coaching fault.  Missing wide open 3 point shots, not a coaching fault.  Dribbling endlessly around the key, sure we can blame that on CAM.  Dribble driving into double teams and floor vision, could be coaching fault.  Defensive aggressiveness and tenacity, combination of coaching and natural talent.

There is some things that can be blamed on coaching.  But some of these are things he should be able to do regardless of who is coaching.  Shooting Free Throws is all on him.  Making open shots, all on him.  Finishing at the rim, especially for someone with his elevation, on him and coaching.

The problem with rob, is even if you take him off the point, he still can't score for you like you want and makes terrible decisions with the ball when he has it.  

On the good side though, he can be a pretty above average defender who is aggressive and tenacious. 

He should be a matchup or in desperate need sub.  He shouldn't be the first PG off the bench.  Our defense is pretty good without him on the floor, but our offense is worst when he is.  Scoring wins games.  And we need scorers.

I like Rob, thought he was going to be better than he is.  Unfortunately, he isn't 

Didn't you say RP should have started the 2nd half in game one!?