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16 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said:

We are just starting to see the light come on for this young man.  Playing confident, playing defense, and this is just the beginning.  Been impressed with him the last two games.  Hoping to see his role grow this year. Still needs to work on the turnovers but that comes with more playing time.

I know this is CMW’s team, but I wonder about Fife’s influence. It seems like Izzo’s teams and his younger point guards have high volumes of TOs early in the season, but improve over the year (Rocket Watts the exception). They seem to be given some freedom early while they learn the offense 

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I think Lander needs to understand his value is getting to the basket and feeding open guys, similar to X. He’s not a good shooter right now and needs to understand that. Still think he’s a below average defender, but he’s also just technically a freshman. If he keeps working there’s a lot of potential there. 

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Listening to a podcast this morning and they were saying Coach Woody coaches more of an NBA style by exploiting matchups than most college coaches...

So maybe it'll be whichever he needs more at a particular time or game...Offense, Khristian.,,Defene, Rob...

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Lander had 3 turnovers in the first 5 mins of being on the court. 4 for the game. He also, twice, was involved in turnovers because of an illegal screen. If KL wants to be a part of the rotation, consistently, this season.... 3 TOs in 5 mins will not get it done. If we'd had another option yesterday he would have been sat and we wouldn't even have been able to see him play well the rest of the game. 

You cannot come into a game, in the role he's in now, and do that. You just can't. His potential or whatever else isn't going to overshadow that. 

Come in more focused. Stop trying to force so much, stop hiding so much when the play breaks down... especially against that kind of pressure. 

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13 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Lander had 3 turnovers in the first 5 mins of being on the court. 4 for the game. He also, twice, was involved in turnovers because of an illegal screen. If KL wants to be a part of the rotation, consistently, this season.... 3 TOs in 5 mins will not get it done. If we'd had another option yesterday he would have been sat and we wouldn't even have been able to see him play well the rest of the game. 

You cannot come into a game, in the role he's in now, and do that. You just can't. His potential or whatever else isn't going to overshadow that. 

Come in more focused. Stop trying to force so much, stop hiding so much when the play breaks down... especially against that kind of pressure. 

Woodson said Lander was perfect last night.  

 

 

 

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I guess I'm in the minority that just isn't as high on Lander.

He's not a great shooter. He lacks size, he's not extremely quick on defense. And, he turns the ball over too much.

I agree, if he reaches his potential, he could give us a slight upgrade over Rob, despite Rob's shortcomings. But I just don't see this "high ceiling" kid with the current tools I see. If he can learn to come in to a game, be a steady presence and create for teammates, wonderful. But making boneheaded plays and turning it over is going to kill us against B10 competition. Hopefully with more PT, he cleans up the turnovers and can be a trustworthy backup PG.

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Just now, ephul said:

I guess I'm in the minority that just isn't as high on Lander.

He's not a great shooter. He lacks size, he's not extremely quick on defense. And, he turns the ball over too much.

I agree, if he reaches his potential, he could give us a slight upgrade over Rob, despite Rob's shortcomings. But I just don't see this "high ceiling" kid with the current tools I see. If he can learn to come in to a game, be a steady presence and create for teammates, wonderful. But making boneheaded plays and turning it over is going to kill us against B10 competition. Hopefully with more PT, he cleans up the turnovers and can be a trustworthy backup PG.

Easy, you'll get laughed at with this opinion. 

It was nice to see him play well, even after it was all the turnovers. Not sure how get got pick pocketed in the second half, though. 

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7 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Easy, you'll get laughed at with this opinion. 

It was nice to see him play well, even after it was all the turnovers. Not sure how get got pick pocketed in the second half, though. 

I’m happy for the kid that he’s getting more PT and looking like he actually belongs out on the court at this level but I’m not naive…he has to contribute against BigTen level talent. I’m not really interested in what he can do against the Ragin Cajuns and it’s weird reading some of the comments insinuating he’s got this incredible ceiling or that he’s better than Rob. 

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I hope so. I really hope so. It's very early and not a lot of meaningful minutes to tell but we know this team would be so much better with his talent on the floor. He is certainly a young "colt"...youthful mistakes. I'm not sure if he truly yet realizes what it will take to become a great basketball player but I hope the light is coming on. He can make the great plays but just always making the correct play counts a lot at his position (given how much the ball is in his hands) and contributing at the defensive end is key in this league. Anticipating, moving your feet, fighting over/around screens, and using that athleticism to beat your man to the spot. I mean even just not letting up when your man passes or gives up the ball. I see him relax and be like "i've done my job"...you just have to engaged and "on" at all times at that end of the floor to be a great defender. I'm excited for his future....heck I'm excited he even looks to have a future here. It's truly up to him.

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59 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Lander had 3 turnovers in the first 5 mins of being on the court. 4 for the game. He also, twice, was involved in turnovers because of an illegal screen. If KL wants to be a part of the rotation, consistently, this season.... 3 TOs in 5 mins will not get it done. If we'd had another option yesterday he would have been sat and we wouldn't even have been able to see him play well the rest of the game. 

You cannot come into a game, in the role he's in now, and do that. You just can't. His potential or whatever else isn't going to overshadow that. 

Come in more focused. Stop trying to force so much, stop hiding so much when the play breaks down... especially against that kind of pressure. 

X had 3 turnovers when Lander replaced him.  That was 3 from the tip off from the starter, and one with experience at that.  I think it is safe to say that Woody was happy with KL.

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12 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Easy, you'll get laughed at with this opinion. 

It was nice to see him play well, even after it was all the turnovers. Not sure how get got pick pocketed in the second half, though. 

At least he didn't get a technical or pull an arsz muscle...

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2 minutes ago, rico said:

X had 3 turnovers when Lander replaced him.  That was 3 from the tip off from the starter, and one with experience at that.  I think it is safe to say that Woody was happy with KL.

One of X's turnovers was the technical. It counts as a TO. So, in 8mins/9mins X had 2 TOs... KL had 3 in 5 mins. I'm not upset about the way KL played jesus. To act like he was perfect or even close to it is laughable. 

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14 minutes ago, ephul said:

I guess I'm in the minority that just isn't as high on Lander.

He's not a great shooter. He lacks size, he's not extremely quick on defense. And, he turns the ball over too much.

I agree, if he reaches his potential, he could give us a slight upgrade over Rob, despite Rob's shortcomings. But I just don't see this "high ceiling" kid with the current tools I see. If he can learn to come in to a game, be a steady presence and create for teammates, wonderful. But making boneheaded plays and turning it over is going to kill us against B10 competition. Hopefully with more PT, he cleans up the turnovers and can be a trustworthy backup PG.

While Lander is not nearly there yet...and I hardly call the start of the season he has had "good" I will say that Lander's ceiling is much much higher than Rob's....much. It's of course up to him to achieve it but he is already about as good a shooter as Rob (sad for both). Lander is a better free throw shooter already (perhaps the best on the team) and would be nice to have someone that can help close out games from the line. He doesn't dribble the ball into eternity, is taller (no matter what the stats say Rob isn't 6'1) and has a much longer wingspan than Rob. Much much more athletic. The thing is Rob is as good as Rob is going to get. Khristian can get better at all the things he needs to get better at if he wants it bad enough. I think he is just now figuring out what it takes to compete at this high a level....in HS and AAU he could compete with just his athleticism. Defense and ball control are where Rob has him...but Khristian can be just as good if he wants to...and the rest of his game in which how he sees the floor and the pace he can play at is far beyond what Rob can give us.

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12 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

I’m happy for the kid that he’s getting more PT and looking like he actually belongs out on the court at this level but I’m not naive…he has to contribute against BigTen level talent. I’m not really interested in what he can do against the Ragin Cajuns and it’s weird reading some of the comments insinuating he’s got this incredible ceiling or that he’s better than Rob. 

On the offensive end, I've seen him make passes that Rob hasn't made in 4 years...One of his turnovers was on a head up look down the court trying to find Durr, just misgauged Durr's speed...One of the other turnovers was a pass to JG that I'm sure Jordan will tell you he should have caught...2 other times he made beautiful passes to Tamar and Anthony on the break for layups...and one to the right corner for a Tamar 3...I'm willing to say right now he's a better passer than Rob...

He did have one fumble away at the beginning of his stint in the 2nd half that was all on him...

But I think Coach Woody is doing the right thing with him...Build his confidence and hunger against the less talented teams...Let's see how much action he gets against the Orangemen (If Rob is ready to play)...THAT will show how ready he is and how much confidence CMW has in him for playing against Big 10 competition

 

Edited by IUFLA
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15 minutes ago, ephul said:

I guess I'm in the minority that just isn't as high on Lander.

He's not a great shooter. He lacks size, he's not extremely quick on defense. And, he turns the ball over too much.

I agree, if he reaches his potential, he could give us a slight upgrade over Rob, despite Rob's shortcomings. But I just don't see this "high ceiling" kid with the current tools I see. If he can learn to come in to a game, be a steady presence and create for teammates, wonderful. But making boneheaded plays and turning it over is going to kill us against B10 competition. Hopefully with more PT, he cleans up the turnovers and can be a trustworthy backup PG.

I have to disagree with most of this, in my opinion his ceiling is really high. He sees the court better then any one on the team, he pushes the ball better then Rob and only slightly less then X. The only thing Rob is better at right now is defense. And lets not act like Johnson and Phinisee haven't had their bonehead moments either, 4 TOs in 16 minutes and playing out of control at times as an upperclassman for X yesterday.

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8 minutes ago, btownqb said:

One of X's turnovers was the technical. It counts as a TO. So, in 8mins/9mins X had 2 TOs... KL had 3 in 5 mins. I'm not upset about the way KL played jesus. To act like he was perfect or even close to it is laughable. 

I don't think anyone is saying KL is perfect. And so far this year it's not just KL that's struggled with turnovers, KL, Rob, and X all have basically the same turnover rate this year. With how poorly Rob has started the year on offense, I just think it's encouraging to see we could have another option for backup pg minutes if he doesn't improve. Still need to see KL performs against better competition though.

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6 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

I have to disagree with most of this, in my opinion his ceiling is really high. He sees the court better then any one on the team, he pushes the ball better then Rob and only slightly less then X. The only thing Rob is better at right now is defense. And lets not act like Johnson and Phinisee haven't had their bonehead moments either, 4 TOs in 16 minutes and playing out of control at times as an upperclassman for X yesterday.

But Johnson is better in nearly every other facet of the game, and against better competition. Johnson can get to the hole, much quicker, has size, average shooter, and better defense. 

I agree, turnovers need to be cleaned up everywhere. But if you are lagging behind, as you are with Lander, you damn sure better excel at what you are suppose to excel at. If being a playmaker is what you are depending on to get you on the court, you better excel at it if defense and shooting are average to below average. If Lander continues with sloppy turnovers and boneheaded mistakes, I'll take Phinisee and the fact that he "only excels at defense". Good. Know your strengths, know your weaknesses. If he can play defense, that's one less thing we have to worry about when he's on the court.

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2 minutes ago, ephul said:

But Johnson is better in nearly every other facet of the game, and against better competition. Johnson can get to the hole, much quicker, has size, average shooter, and better defense. 

I agree, turnovers need to be cleaned up everywhere. But if you are lagging behind, as you are with Lander, you damn sure better excel at what you are suppose to excel at. If being a playmaker is what you are depending on to get you on the court, you better excel at it if defense and shooting are average to below average. If Lander continues with sloppy turnovers and boneheaded mistakes, I'll take Phinisee and the fact that he "only excels at defense". Good. Know your strengths, know your weaknesses. If he can play defense, that's one less thing we have to worry about when he's on the court.

Agreed with that...Lander hasn't passed Rob....I don't think anyone here is saying he has...but the kid is making progress...and I think he has plenty more room that if he continues to improve the parts of his game that he is best at, pace/making plays, breaking down defense..then he doesn't necessarily have to be elite at defense. Rob is pretty darn good at the defensive end...not sure KL will ever be that good. The team in general needs to improve two things more than anything....rebounding and scoring. KL can help with his playmaking on the scoring end.

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16 minutes ago, ephul said:

But Johnson is better in nearly every other facet of the game, and against better competition. Johnson can get to the hole, much quicker, has size, average shooter, and better defense. 

I agree, turnovers need to be cleaned up everywhere. But if you are lagging behind, as you are with Lander, you damn sure better excel at what you are suppose to excel at. If being a playmaker is what you are depending on to get you on the court, you better excel at it if defense and shooting are average to below average. If Lander continues with sloppy turnovers and boneheaded mistakes, I'll take Phinisee and the fact that he "only excels at defense". Good. Know your strengths, know your weaknesses. If he can play defense, that's one less thing we have to worry about when he's on the court.

The thing is Phinisee might be better at defense but when he is in there we get nothing else. He bogs the offense down in the half court, he is shooting 25% fg, 22% from 3s and 40% FTs which are all terrible. And like i said he has his bonehead moments also, and this coming from a four year player compared to a two year player.

 In the same amount of games played 3, Lander is shooting better, scoring better, more assist and steals then Rob all in less minutes played.

Phinisee is averaging slighty more TOs but he would playing more minutes.

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1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Lander had 3 turnovers in the first 5 mins of being on the court. 4 for the game. He also, twice, was involved in turnovers because of an illegal screen. If KL wants to be a part of the rotation, consistently, this season.... 3 TOs in 5 mins will not get it done. If we'd had another option yesterday he would have been sat and we wouldn't even have been able to see him play well the rest of the game. 

You cannot come into a game, in the role he's in now, and do that. You just can't. His potential or whatever else isn't going to overshadow that. 

Come in more focused. Stop trying to force so much, stop hiding so much when the play breaks down... especially against that kind of pressure. 

I honestly don't know how to say this without coming off like a jerk so please take this as an honest question/observation.  Do you have something against Kristian Lander?  Is he from your hometowns rival school?  From your kids rival school?  Have you heard or know something about him that isn't public?  It just feels like you really don't like this kid and refuse to post anything that remotely could be construed as be positive toward him.  I can't say i even remember you being this critical of any player in the past.  Not that i remember every post you ever posted.  And please understand i am just asking without any judgement or skin in the game.  I live in Iowa and mostly only get to follow IU basketball through here.  I am trying to understand your point of view.  thanks for your time

~KYHoosier

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