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Yet Another School Shooting


5fouls

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15 hours ago, cthomas said:

Agree. We don't seem to be the nurturing society that we once were. My son-in-law was stabbed in his apartment parking lot over a parking spot. My wife and I spent the spring and summer caring for four grandchildren. Fist fights of the past have turned into shootings. Kids are growing up with that as their reality and their solution when something doesn't go the way they want. I don't have any solutions and am mostly just sad for everyone involved.

Yikes, a parking spot! Here we have drivers honking and screaming at each other so much that you can often see fistfights in the street. It’s almost total anarchy on the streets these days, no one pays attention to red lights or parking restrictions. 

My wife always tells me, do not interact with anyone who is angry or yelling. They could have a knife or a gun and they will most likely use it. She’s obviously right. 

I did have someone menacing me with his car and honking when I was crossing Flatbush as a pedestrian with the Walk sign. This was a couple of years ago. I stopped and looked at him, he pounded on his horn, screamed at me, and advanced his car towards me. I was wearing hiking boots, so I kicked the front of his car. Not smart. He jumped out of his car and we ended up in a shoving match in the middle of Flatbush. 

It’s a different world for sure. I think if that would have happened today, it would have been much worse. 

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1 hour ago, Lostin76 said:

Yikes, a parking spot! Here we have drivers honking and screaming at each other so much that you can often see fistfights in the street. It’s almost total anarchy on the streets these days, no one pays attention to red lights or parking restrictions. 

My wife always tells me, do not interact with anyone who is angry or yelling. They could have a knife or a gun and they will most likely use it. She’s obviously right. 

I did have someone menacing me with his car and honking when I was crossing Flatbush as a pedestrian with the Walk sign. This was a couple of years ago. I stopped and looked at him, he pounded on his horn, screamed at me, and advanced his car towards me. I was wearing hiking boots, so I kicked the front of his car. Not smart. He jumped out of his car and we ended up in a shoving match in the middle of Flatbush. 

It’s a different world for sure. I think if that would have happened today, it would have been much worse. 

Moral of the story, don't mess with @Lostin76 when he's wearing his shit kickers. 

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On 11/30/2021 at 10:04 PM, Zlinedavid said:

Going to throw the flag on this one, only because I come from the other side of the coin. I WISH I had been diagnosed with ADHD as a kid, but I wasn’t until the age of 30. But, my grades never suffered so why bother, right? 
 

ADHD is a very common condition to misunderstand. It’s not simply “fidgeting”. It’s taxing on your brain to have to tell yourself to constantly focus. There’s also the common co-morbidities of anxiety and depression, which are both tied to the ADHD brain’s lack of/rapid processing of dopamine. Fortunately, mine only came with depression, but it’s not uncommon for both to be present. 
 

Those co-morbidities can lead to a lack of socialization, inability to regulate emotions, isolation….any of these starting to sound like familiar traits associated with acts of violence? 
 

ADHD medication isn’t the evil that it’s made out to be. It doesn’t turn you into a crack fiend. You don’t get “addicted”. I take the most evil of the evil: instant release Adderall. I’ve taken the exact same dose every day for over 3200 consecutive days, no changes. Find an “addict” with that much consistency. 
 

And downing a couple of pills a day is all it takes to transform me from a depressed, overly sensitive space cadet into a normal human being. 
 

Sorry for the sermon, but that’s obviously a hot button topic for me. Is ADHD misdiagnosed in some kids? Sure. But don’t just assume that ADHD is some kind of made up or overblown problem. I can assure you, it is absolutely a real condition in which there are just as many people that don’t get diagnosed when they should be, as there are misdiagnoses. 
 

Edit: My wife was also diagnosed as an adult. We’ve known for awhile that our kids would likely have it. Our 10 year old was just diagnosed this year, and yes, we started him on medication, and it’s made a world of difference. We’re waiting before starting our 8 year old, but it’s only a matter of when.

Everything you said here is great. Literally I mean that. I work with special education, which is ENTIRELY different from when you or I went to school. Your kids with ADHD could easily qualify for special ed... and 10000% agree there is essentially nothing wrong w/ADHD meds, other than some kids have trouble putting weight on/eating at all because they are on them. I only know this because of coaching football and speaking with some of our players about weight gain lol

Now... where I am going with this is... you are right and the post you quoted is somewhat right, his point about recess is absolutely spot on. I taught 1st grade for a year... they were allowed one recess a day. 1st grade. Unreal. I couldn't believe it. I had 3 of them when I was in elementary school. 

 

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10 hours ago, IUFLA said:

It all begins with parenting and teaching kids civility...

A lost art I think...

Agree 100%. Personally, I think good parenting and a stable home is the biggest predictor for success. Slightly different topic but I think it’s applicable here. Everything becomes so much easier growing up if you have good parents there to teach you how to be a good person and make the right decisions.

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34 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

Parents of the 15 year old Michigan shooter have been charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter.

And based on available info they deserve it. It's suspicious they bought the handgun used days before. I think I read 4 days before, and are being uncooperative.  

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This is infuriating….

11 min ago

Prosecutor outlines timeline leading to charges against Michigan school shooting suspect's parents

From CNN's Elizabeth Joseph and Adrienne Vogt

During a Friday news conference, Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald detailed events leading up to charges of involuntary manslaughter against the parents of Oxford High School shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley. 

McDonald called the actions of the parents, James and Jennifer Crumbley, "egregious," saying that "gun owners have a responsibility."

Four students died in Tuesday's shooting.

Here's a timeline of how the events unfolded, according to the prosecutor: 

  • Nov. 26: Ethan Crumbley's father, James Crumbley, purchased a gun with his son present. 
  • On or about Nov. 26: Ethan Crumbley posted photos of a semi-automatic gun on social media with a caption: “Just got my new beauty today. SIG SAUER 9mm.”
  • On or about Nov. 27: Jennifer Crumbley, Ethan Crumbley's mother, made a social media post that read, “mom and son day testing out his new Christmas present.”
  • Nov. 29: A teacher at Oxford High School observed Ethan searching for ammunition on his phone and reported that information to school officials. His parents did not reply when the school attempted to contact them. Later, Jennifer Crumbley exchanged texts with Ethan stating, “LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.”
  • Nov. 30: On the morning of the shooting, Ethan’s teacher came across a note that “alarmed her to the point that she took a picture of it on her cell phone.” The note contained “a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words ‘the thoughts won’t stop. help me.’" Also included in the note was a drawing of a bullet with “blood everywhere” written above it. Between the gun and the bullet is a drawing of a person who appears to have been shot twice and bleeding with a laughing emoji under it. The note also has “my life is useless” and “the world is dead” scrawled on it. 
  • The parents were “immediately summoned to the school." A school counselor removed Ethan from class with his backpack and obtained the note, but the drawings of the gun, bloody figure and writings were all “altered.” At the meeting with school officials, his parents were shown the drawing and were told they had to submit their son to counseling within 48 hours. His parents did not ask the whereabouts of the gun and did not to inspect his backpack for the gun which he had with him, according to McDonald. His parents “resisted” the idea of taking Ethan out of school and left without him.
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2 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

This is infuriating….

11 min ago

Prosecutor outlines timeline leading to charges against Michigan school shooting suspect's parents

From CNN's Elizabeth Joseph and Adrienne Vogt

During a Friday news conference, Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald detailed events leading up to charges of involuntary manslaughter against the parents of Oxford High School shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley. 

McDonald called the actions of the parents, James and Jennifer Crumbley, "egregious," saying that "gun owners have a responsibility."

Four students died in Tuesday's shooting.

Here's a timeline of how the events unfolded, according to the prosecutor: 

  • Nov. 26: Ethan Crumbley's father, James Crumbley, purchased a gun with his son present. 
  • On or about Nov. 26: Ethan Crumbley posted photos of a semi-automatic gun on social media with a caption: “Just got my new beauty today. SIG SAUER 9mm.”
  • On or about Nov. 27: Jennifer Crumbley, Ethan Crumbley's mother, made a social media post that read, “mom and son day testing out his new Christmas present.”
  • Nov. 29: A teacher at Oxford High School observed Ethan searching for ammunition on his phone and reported that information to school officials. His parents did not reply when the school attempted to contact them. Later, Jennifer Crumbley exchanged texts with Ethan stating, “LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.”
  • Nov. 30: On the morning of the shooting, Ethan’s teacher came across a note that “alarmed her to the point that she took a picture of it on her cell phone.” The note contained “a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words ‘the thoughts won’t stop. help me.’" Also included in the note was a drawing of a bullet with “blood everywhere” written above it. Between the gun and the bullet is a drawing of a person who appears to have been shot twice and bleeding with a laughing emoji under it. The note also has “my life is useless” and “the world is dead” scrawled on it. 
  • The parents were “immediately summoned to the school." A school counselor removed Ethan from class with his backpack and obtained the note, but the drawings of the gun, bloody figure and writings were all “altered.” At the meeting with school officials, his parents were shown the drawing and were told they had to submit their son to counseling within 48 hours. His parents did not ask the whereabouts of the gun and did not to inspect his backpack for the gun which he had with him, according to McDonald. His parents “resisted” the idea of taking Ethan out of school and left without him.

Yeah, I think they'd better lawyer up quick...

Again...Parenting...

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11 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

This is infuriating….

11 min ago

Prosecutor outlines timeline leading to charges against Michigan school shooting suspect's parents

From CNN's Elizabeth Joseph and Adrienne Vogt

During a Friday news conference, Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald detailed events leading up to charges of involuntary manslaughter against the parents of Oxford High School shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley. 

McDonald called the actions of the parents, James and Jennifer Crumbley, "egregious," saying that "gun owners have a responsibility."

Four students died in Tuesday's shooting.

Here's a timeline of how the events unfolded, according to the prosecutor: 

  • Nov. 26: Ethan Crumbley's father, James Crumbley, purchased a gun with his son present. 
  • On or about Nov. 26: Ethan Crumbley posted photos of a semi-automatic gun on social media with a caption: “Just got my new beauty today. SIG SAUER 9mm.”
  • On or about Nov. 27: Jennifer Crumbley, Ethan Crumbley's mother, made a social media post that read, “mom and son day testing out his new Christmas present.”
  • Nov. 29: A teacher at Oxford High School observed Ethan searching for ammunition on his phone and reported that information to school officials. His parents did not reply when the school attempted to contact them. Later, Jennifer Crumbley exchanged texts with Ethan stating, “LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.”
  • Nov. 30: On the morning of the shooting, Ethan’s teacher came across a note that “alarmed her to the point that she took a picture of it on her cell phone.” The note contained “a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words ‘the thoughts won’t stop. help me.’" Also included in the note was a drawing of a bullet with “blood everywhere” written above it. Between the gun and the bullet is a drawing of a person who appears to have been shot twice and bleeding with a laughing emoji under it. The note also has “my life is useless” and “the world is dead” scrawled on it. 
  • The parents were “immediately summoned to the school." A school counselor removed Ethan from class with his backpack and obtained the note, but the drawings of the gun, bloody figure and writings were all “altered.” At the meeting with school officials, his parents were shown the drawing and were told they had to submit their son to counseling within 48 hours. His parents did not ask the whereabouts of the gun and did not to inspect his backpack for the gun which he had with him, according to McDonald. His parents “resisted” the idea of taking Ethan out of school and left without him.

From the looks of this the parents definitely deserve charges.

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14 hours ago, IUFLA said:

The parents are supposedly turning themselves in tonight...

This should be an interesting set of trials...sounds like one of the teachers tried to do her job, but schools are so afraid of parents suing them over any little thing...

Unfortunately teachers hands are tied. Schools bow down to parents and fear being sued. When everyone is a victim it makes it impossible for teachers to police anything.  It's sad when teachers have to be afraid to discipline anyone. It's a scary place

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On 12/1/2021 at 5:05 PM, 13th&Jackson said:

Totally defer to you on this. Clearly ADHD is a thing and requires treatment. However, schools are eliminating recess and then punish kids who don’t sit still in class. There is pressure on parents to medicate kids 

https://thebestschools.org/magazine/death-of-recess/

Just curious….where’s the “pressure to medicate” that you’re seeing? I’ve got two grade school aged kids, one diagnosed with ADHD and one that I’d bet a year’s worth of mortgage payments that does. It took until my oldest was in 4th grade for any teacher or administrator to make even the remotest comment regarding ADHD, and even then, medication has never been mentioned aside from conversations between us and our pediatrician. 
 

Even then, the doctor was walking on eggshells about medication until I told her that yes, I have it also and am more than familiar with the entire menu of medications. 
 

There was no pressure anywhere. 
 

Also, that article doesn’t understand the ties between ADHD and energy outlets. While I agree that younger kids need a physical energy outlet, that isn’t going to stop someone that has untreated ADHD from fidgeting. You can take a kid with untreated ADHD, make them run 6 miles and while they might stay seated, they’re still going to fidget or squirm in their chair or play with their shoelaces or whatever else. Fidgeting isn’t tied to energy levels. It’s a psychological release. The untreated ADHD brain is moving at light speed, taking in every last stimuli. Fidgeting is how some kids deal with that, by doing something repetitive and stable to cope with the influx of things running through their mind. 
 

Here’s the other interesting thing about ADHD and medications. Give a kid that is just high energy an ADHD stimulant and it’ll make the problem worse. Stimulants have the opposite effect on those with ADHD vs those that don’t have it. 
 

Case in point, Adderall is commonly obtained illegally and abused by college students to stay awake and study. I can take a dose of Adderall and if I’m that tired, can take a two hour nap without a problem. If you don’t have ADHD, a stimulant will crank your energy levels through the roof. If you have ADHD, it calms you down. 
 

This whole “pressure to medicate” makes no sense, because if you don’t have ADHD, a stimulant is going to result in worse academic performance in a young child, not better. And in those with ADHD, the medication isn’t adding anything, it’s making up for a deficiency. It doesn’t make you study more, but it enables you to if you choose to. 

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On 12/2/2021 at 2:00 PM, btownqb said:

Everything you said here is great. Literally I mean that. I work with special education, which is ENTIRELY different from when you or I went to school. Your kids with ADHD could easily qualify for special ed... and 10000% agree there is essentially nothing wrong w/ADHD meds, other than some kids have trouble putting weight on/eating at all because they are on them. I only know this because of coaching football and speaking with some of our players about weight gain lol

Now... where I am going with this is... you are right and the post you quoted is somewhat right, his point about recess is absolutely spot on. I taught 1st grade for a year... they were allowed one recess a day. 1st grade. Unreal. I couldn't believe it. I had 3 of them when I was in elementary school. 

 

Well aware of that. And here’s a response that isn’t heard often enough: I don’t want them to have any type of accommodation or advantage that they don’t absolutely require. If they don’t require some kind of accommodation, I want them on a level playing field with everyone else. 

I was unknowingly fighting uphill my entire academic life. No sense in that. But there are no true shortcuts in life, and I want them to have to learn, adapt and if possible, succeed with their condition without any unneeded accommodations. 

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Just now, Zlinedavid said:

Well aware of that. And here’s a response that isn’t heard often enough: I don’t want them to have any type of accommodation or advantage that they don’t absolutely require. If they don’t require some kind of accommodation, I want them on a level playing field with everyone else. 

I was unknowingly fighting uphill my entire academic life. No sense in that. But there are no true shortcuts in life, and I want them to have to learn, adapt and if possible, succeed with their condition without any unneeded accommodations. 

Sure. I can appreciate that as a parent. 

But things like individual testing, longer breaks between testing(state testing), preferential seating, etc. All of that can go a LONG way towards gaining some confidence in the classroom and life, I believe. 

The other important part is you have multiple teachers with more eyes and ears on a student that's in special Ed. 

 

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2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Sure. I can appreciate that as a parent. 

But things like individual testing, longer breaks between testing(state testing), preferential seating, etc. All of that can go a LONG way towards gaining some confidence in the classroom and life, I believe. 

The other important part is you have multiple teachers with more eyes and ears on a student that's in special Ed. 

 

So far, no issues. Both of them were/are above average students untreated, and since starting treatment earlier this year, my oldest is into well above average territory. Only real issue he has is being prone to the occasional careless arithmetic mistake, but his math grades are typically 90% or above now, so he’s still in solid shape. 
 

 

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10 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

So far, no issues. Both of them were/are above average students untreated, and since starting treatment earlier this year, my oldest is into well above average territory. Only real issue he has is being prone to the occasional careless arithmetic mistake, but his math grades are typically 90% or above now, so he’s still in solid shape. 
 

 

I'm incredibly happy to hear that. 

So one other point..(we agree on this, I'm just coming from a teachers perspective and yours a parent, and absolutely nothing wrong with either)

You're a good parent, I'm sure, and I bet your wife is as well... use your son as an example with his ADHD.. 

I'm sure you guys make sure he's fed well, sleeps enough, doesn't get to make excuses, and has a ritual for HW/studying for tests, etc school wise... 

Take that same ADHD and throw it into a one parent household w/no dad present... mom has 4 other kids, mom works 45hours a week, the kid essentially raises himself... see how that environment coupled with ADHD could be incredibly problematic? 

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4 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I'm incredibly happy to hear that. 

So one other point..(we agree on this, I'm just coming from a teachers perspective and yours a parent, and absolutely nothing wrong with either)

You're a good parent, I'm sure, and I bet your wife is as well... use your son as an example with his ADHD.. 

I'm sure you guys make sure he's fed well, sleeps enough, doesn't get to make excuses, and has a ritual for HW/studying for tests, etc school wise... 

Take that same ADHD and throw it into a one parent household w/no dad present... mom has 4 other kids, mom works 45hours a week, the kid essentially raises himself... see how that environment coupled with ADHD could be incredibly problematic? 

Absolutely. 

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