Nebraska Post Game Thread

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

If he scores more points, shoots better from 2, 3 and on FTs, grabs more rebounds, creates more assists, records more steals, and has better defensive metrics across the board, then he's probably doing more to help us win.

Well didn't Lander get like 7 of his points in the last 3 minutes of a blowout.  He was playing against the backups on a very bad team.

[IU Scott]

I just trust RP in late game situations more than I do Lander.  I can remember at least 4-5 games where he had gotten the game winning shots.  One against Butler was the 3 at the buzzer. 3 or 4 we're late in games or OT that helped us win the game 

Edited December 5, 2021 by IU Scott

[IUfaninIllinois]

1 hour ago, Indykev said:

I watched just him on D when he was in. He is coming around on that end, much more active. Had good switches, didnt lose his man and was just more aggressive then only a few weeks ago.  You can tell someone has been working with him. On offense he keeps the ball moving better than most on the team. Takes the shot when open. Bates could learn from watching Leal.

I 1000% agree the one thing I want to see him do is create his own offense more and not be afraid to shoot it when in a good spot. He only seems to shoot it when he’s WIDE OPEN!!!

[02Hoosier]

Regardless of what their stats are, I think most of us can agree that RP and Lander’s jobs aren’t to be scorers when they are out on the court. I think it’s clear that Woodson wants his PG to be able to run the team and facilitate on the court. Yes Lander has been a better scorer so far, but I don’t think that’s what Woodson is really looking for from him.

[kyhoosier29]

3 hours ago, 02Hoosier said:

Regardless of what their stats are, I think most of us can agree that RP and Lander’s jobs aren’t to be scorers when they are out on the court. I think it’s clear that Woodson wants his PG to be able to run the team and facilitate on the court. Yes Lander has been a better scorer so far, but I don’t think that’s what Woodson is really looking for from him.

Bingo. All I want to know is who’s going to play D well, take care of the ball, and overall make good decisions? I’m not looking for a scorer, just want somebody smart. RP wins all three of those categories right now for me. I’m amazed that KL could make such a stupid foul like he did at the end of the Cuse game. Woody obviously doesn’t feel he can be trusted as much as Rob. With that said, our PG play needs to improve drastically if we are going to hit our ceiling. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by kyhoosier29

[mkaser]

One big thing I take away from this game is that we beat a Nebraska team that I think is very good, McGowens is a stud and I think Koby Webster is solid. All around really good. And we won with TJD only scoring 14. Last year in a B10 game if Trayce only scores 14 we lose by 15+. Love this team. Think Leal needs more minuets and wouldn't be opposed to Tamar starting at some point in the season. He brings energy that I feel like we could use at the beginning of games. Just my opinion. 

[IUCrazy2]

Sorry, not sure if my question about Lander derailed this or not.

Couple of positives from the game:

1.  Free throws.  We were shooting 100% deep into the game and I think we finished above 80%.  Will take that any game.

2.  It took a half, but we finally got around to taking better care of the ball.  I can live with 14 turnovers.

3.  Even though we got off to slow start, it was nice to see our bench providing a spark.  Durr had a nice hook shot for a bucket.  Leal had 2 nice passes (1 that Bates fumbled) and hit a 3.  Bates had some good minutes.  If it was multiple OT's earlier in the week that were causing issues for both teams early on, our bench showing up was the difference in the game.

[IowaHoosierFan]

We need to play 40 minutes of basketball regardless who we play or who is on the floor.  At some point, we're going to run into talented teams who won't let us off the hook playing just 20 minutes.  We just need to get it together in the first half. 

[Proud2BAHoosier]

11 hours ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Bingo. All I want to know is who’s going to play D well, take care of the ball, and overall make good decisions? I’m not looking for a scorer, just want somebody smart. RP wins all three of those categories right now for me. I’m amazed that KL could make such a stupid foul like he did at the end of the Cuse game. Woody obviously doesn’t feel he can be trusted as much as Rob. With that said, our PG play needs to improve drastically if we are going to hit our ceiling. 

We seem to forget KL is still just a freshmen....

[Proud2BAHoosier]

How's everyone feel about the Wiscy game coming up?

I'm not feeling too confident. This may be a DVR game for me....

[Hoosier51]

39 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

How's everyone feel about the Wiscy game coming up?

I'm not feeling too confident. This may be a DVR game for me....

I've watched them play a couple of times and they are ok but nothing great. I think that if IU keeps their turnovers down they will win the game. Granted that is a big if lol.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Hoosier51

[Hoosier987]

1-0 in the conference and am very happy about that. A couple observations though.

- we have to stop being so careless with the ball. I’m a bit surprised we’re this far into the season and still haven’t seen much or any improvement in this area. Hopefully we see improvement soon. If we don’t take care of the ball against Wisconsin, we will lose.

- Geronimo. I agree with CMW limiting his minutes. I think Geronimo is who he is…he’s a great athlete but I’m not sold on him being a big contributor on this team. I know there were hopes of him developing into a Vic or OG but nothing so far in his sophomore campaign suggests he will, or ever will. He needs to develop softer hands..it’s anxious times when he has the ball.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Hoosier987

[FKIM01]

3 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

We need to play 40 minutes of basketball regardless who we play or who is on the floor.  At some point, we're going to run into talented teams who won't let us off the hook playing just 20 minutes.  We just need to get it together in the first half. 

"At some point..." is the next game.  It's going to take a full 40 effort to have a chance at the Kohl Center.

[FKIM01]

3 hours ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

How's everyone feel about the Wiscy game coming up?

I'm not feeling too confident. This may be a DVR game for me....

Watched them against Marquette...they are a lot better than I expected....dammit.

[kyhoosier29]

5 hours ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

We seem to forget KL is still just a freshmen....

I think the people that are really pushing for him to get more time are forgetting this. I understand that, and that’s part of the reason I’m good with RP getting the majority of reps right now. Trust me, I want KL to be great bc that means we’ll be better… but as you said, he’s still a freshman and makes a lot of freshman mistakes. 

[DunkinDipo]

I think KL has a lot of potential and I'm glad he decided to stay. However, he makes too many mistakes right now and there is no way he should be playing over Rob in crunch time. The only reason he got so many minutes against Syracuse is because Rob fouled out. He had 3 really bad turnovers in the overtimes and clearly didn't know the play at the end of the first overtime when we had the final possession and couldn't even get a shot off. Then he makes the last foul at the end of the game which was a terrible foul. I hate to do this but honestly, if you had to blame one player for the loss in the overtime, it would have to be KL. He did make a 3 but at that point it was too late. If X or Rob were in there, I have no doubt we would have won the game. That is absolutely why he didn't get any playing time yesterday. CMW knows he can't count on him making good decisions in close games at this point. Hopefully he learns from this and continues to make good progress as I do think he will be an important piece for us down the line. 

[KoB2011]

On 12/4/2021 at 3:07 PM, btownqb said:

He isn't though. That's the thing. When everything is factored in, Robs still, unfortunately, better for us. Yes, KL is a better scorer, flat out.. no argument from me. 

I think he can for sure make the flashier plays as well, he has not shown he can do it consistently though because of his turnovers/poor decision making. 

Rob flat out makes better decisions. 

I dont think Rob is a good option and I want KL to prove to be consistently a better overall option than Rob. 

I get what you're saying, where I'd push back is that bad decisions don't always show up on the stat sheet (I think you agree with this).

Rob makes a TON of bad decisions on offense out of fear that result in a nothing on the stat sheet, but our offense suffers. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

12 hours ago, DunkinDipo said:

I think KL has a lot of potential and I'm glad he decided to stay. However, he makes too many mistakes right now and there is no way he should be playing over Rob in crunch time. The only reason he got so many minutes against Syracuse is because Rob fouled out. He had 3 really bad turnovers in the overtimes and clearly didn't know the play at the end of the first overtime when we had the final possession and couldn't even get a shot off. Then he makes the last foul at the end of the game which was a terrible foul. I hate to do this but honestly, if you had to blame one player for the loss in the overtime, it would have to be KL. He did make a 3 but at that point it was too late. If X or Rob were in there, I have no doubt we would have won the game. That is absolutely why he didn't get any playing time yesterday. CMW knows he can't count on him making good decisions in close games at this point. Hopefully he learns from this and continues to make good progress as I do think he will be an important piece for us down the line. 

If you want to blame someone for loss it wasn't KL.  We lost that by not playing in the first half.  We lost because our two senior PGs had fouled out and didn't value being in the game (stupid and bad fouls).  We lost because out team decided to play soft 3 point defense on hot shooters.  We lost because we missed free throws.  We lost because Race and Trace decided to combine for 13 TO's.  Kristian played as well as a "freshman" would against a Syracuse zone that gives experienced players trouble year after year (30 years to be exact).  Yeah he was rattled and yeah he made a bad foul at the end but that happens to everyone.  He also made a big 3 and some really good passes during the same time.  I don't think anyone is saying Rob should hit the bench for good but that KL needs some minutes each game to build that confidence and experience.   

And if we would play a full 40 minute game, there would be lots of minutes for him to play.  But we want to only play 2nd half basketball it seems and that either makes it much closer or has us behind allot, which doesn't lend itself well for KL to get minutes.

[KoB2011]

14 hours ago, DunkinDipo said:

I think KL has a lot of potential and I'm glad he decided to stay. However, he makes too many mistakes right now and there is no way he should be playing over Rob in crunch time. The only reason he got so many minutes against Syracuse is because Rob fouled out. He had 3 really bad turnovers in the overtimes and clearly didn't know the play at the end of the first overtime when we had the final possession and couldn't even get a shot off. Then he makes the last foul at the end of the game which was a terrible foul. I hate to do this but honestly, if you had to blame one player for the loss in the overtime, it would have to be KL. He did make a 3 but at that point it was too late. If X or Rob were in there, I have no doubt we would have won the game. That is absolutely why he didn't get any playing time yesterday. CMW knows he can't count on him making good decisions in close games at this point. Hopefully he learns from this and continues to make good progress as I do think he will be an important piece for us down the line. 

Strong disagree. 
 

He made a great play to even get us to overtime (and yes Trayce made an even greater play, but what Lander did isn’t easy). 
 

He made a great pass to Race to tie the game in overtime. 
 

He hit the big three. 
 

He was not the one who didn’t know the play at the end of 1OT. That’s like blaming a quarterback for getting sacked because all of the wide receivers  ran the wrong route. 

[kyhoosier29]

9 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Strong disagree. 
 

He made a great play to even get us to overtime (and yes Trayce made an even greater play, but what Lander did isn’t easy). 
 

He made a great pass to Race to tie the game in overtime. 
 

He hit the big three. 
 

He was not the one who didn’t know the play at the end of 1OT. That’s like blaming a quarterback for getting sacked because all of the wide receivers  ran the wrong route. 

Don’t agree with parts of his post, but there’s a reason he didn’t play in the Nebraska game. Do you know for sure that last play in the 1st OT wasn’t his fault? It’s the PG’s job to get guys in the right spots and run the offense.  Not sure CMW was as pleased as you were with his time in that game. 🤷🏻‍♂️ He had some good and bad, the last play of the game was mind blowing stupid and shouldn’t be a situation where we say, “he’ll learn from it”. At that level, it should never happen.

[FKIM01]

3 hours ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Don’t agree with parts of his post, but there’s a reason he didn’t play in the Nebraska game. Do you know for sure that last play in the 1st OT wasn’t his fault? It’s the PG’s job to get guys in the right spots and run the offense.  Not sure CMW was as pleased as you were with his time in that game. 🤷🏻‍♂️ He had some good and bad, the last play of the game was mind blowing stupid and shouldn’t be a situation where we say, “he’ll learn from it”. At that level, it should never happen.

As I recall, Coach Woodson specifically stated that the other players on the floor did not execute the play putting KL in a difficult spot.

[kyhoosier29]

10 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

As I recall, Coach Woodson specifically stated that the other players on the floor did not execute the play putting KL in a difficult spot.

I could be completely wrong, and it really doesn’t matter anymore, but it looked like to me that KL didn’t know where to go. My guess / assumption is that Woody isn’t going to throw one guy under the bus, so it’s easier to say the “other guys” weren’t where they needed to be (although I’m betting a few of them were - no way all five guys were lost out of a TO) which caused the confusion. Him not playing at all last game makes me believe that he had multiple instances of being lost and CMW doesn’t feel he can trust him yet.  Just my speculation. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by kyhoosier29

[IU878176]

1 hour ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Him not playing at all last game makes me believe that he had multiple instances of being lost and CMW doesn’t feel he can trust him yet.  Just my speculation. 

Bingo. All of the coaches saw tape of the Syracuse game. The very next game X gets in foul trouble and only plays 15 minutes, which is a perfect scenario to allocate some PG minutes, but KL but didn’t get any of them.

I wish the best for KL and hope he does well when the coaches put him in. Aside from that…..whatever happens, happens.

 

[FKIM01]

4 hours ago, kyhoosier29 said:

I could be completely wrong, and it really doesn’t matter anymore, but it looked like to me that KL didn’t know where to go. My guess / assumption is that Woody isn’t going to throw one guy under the bus, so it’s easier to say the “other guys” weren’t where they needed to be (although I’m betting a few of them were - no way all five guys were lost out of a TO) which caused the confusion. Him not playing at all last game makes me believe that he had multiple instances of being lost and CMW doesn’t feel he can trust him yet.  Just my speculation. 

Who knows.  He did seem to go out of his way to spread the blame.  Just eyeballing the play, IU looked completely out of sync and that definitely wasn't all on KL... the screen sucked and the movement didn't look well spaced at all.

[IU878176]

7 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Who knows.  He did seem to go out of his way to spread the blame.  Just eyeballing the play, IU looked completely out of sync and that definitely wasn't all on KL... the screen sucked and the movement didn't look well spaced at all.

Agree that it was a complete breakdown that led us to not getting a shot off.

Two wild guesses:

Once the play broke down X would have driven the ball down the lane and thrown up a layup or dished off. We would have gotten a shot (and maybe a tip-in) off.

If Rob was in he would have also dribbled like KL did but, with 1/10th of a second left, would have hoisted a contested, desperation three…but would have gotten a shot off.