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We got off topic in the Brooks thread, so thought I would post this here:

Looking at the numbers, it appears that Archie’s offensive philosophy is to shoot a relatively high 3P% on limited attempts.  Here are his teams’ national 3P% and 3PA rankings going back to his time at Dayton:

11-12: 171st 3P% / 25th 3PA

12-13: 20th 3P% / 303rd 3PA

13-14: 54th 3P% / 104th 3PA

 14-15: 116th 3P% / 78th 3PA

15-16: 182nd 3P% / 202nd 3PA

16-17: 38th 3P% / 193rd 3PA

17-18: 292nd 3P% / 310th 3PA

18-19: 117th 3P% / 290th 3PA

His teams have only been in the top 100 for threes attempted twice, and one of those years was his first year at Dayton.  From what I can tell, Archie runs a pretty regimented offense that’s focused more on scoring inside than out.  His teams have also generally struggled at the free throw line (haven’t cracked the top 200 in FT% for the past five consecutive seasons).

Thoughts? 

@StLHoosier

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I completely agree that he has an inside out approach on offense, and I see nothing wrong with that.  I was just making the argument that we actually do have some pretty decent shooters.  Again, Al and Morgan are 40% from deep, and Fitzner will be there at the end of the year going off of history and what I’ve seen.  Anderson is a good shooter, but still learning the system and how to play defense at the college level.  Phinisee is a good shooter, but we’re not asking him to shoot right now.  He’s being more focused on getting the offense set up and playing good defense.  Also, we have literally had no continuity with all of the injuries to start the season.  As we build more chemistry and continuity on offense, I believe the shooting percentages will improve.

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Yeah, I’m getting concerned about the shooting. Fitzner is really the only pure shooter on the entire roster, and at 6’10” he’s a catch and shoot guy, not a playmaker that can shoot. There’s very few teams that go deep in March and win conference titles that don’t have at least a guard or two and some wings that can shoot consistently from deep.

I mentioned this in the postgame thread, but while I’d certainly love if TJD can convince Isiah Stewart to join him and hopefully Brooks at IU, I’d be really concerned about shooting for next years team, especially if Langford leaves. Who are the shooters? Who are the guards that can knock down big three’s and spread the floor for those bigs?

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8 minutes ago, StLHoosier said:

I completely agree that he has an inside out approach on offense, and I see nothing wrong with that.  I was just making the argument that we actually do have some pretty decent shooters.  Again, Al and Morgan are 40% from deep, and Fitzner will be there at the end of the year going off of history and what I’ve seen.  Anderson is a good shooter, but still learning the system and how to play defense at the college level.  Phinisee is a good shooter, but we’re not asking him to shoot right now.  He’s being more focused on getting the offense set up and playing good defense.  Also, we have literally had no continuity with all of the injuries to start the season.  As we build more chemistry and continuity on offense, I believe the shooting percentages will improve.

Agree that inside out isn’t bad, and we have some guys that can make threes and are doing it at good clips, but we don’t have ‘spread the floor’ shooters. While Morgan and Durham have good percentages so far, if I’m an opposing coach I’m telling my defense to sag on them and let them shoot. I don’t want Morgan dominating the paint, I’d rather him shoot. If he hits some, then so be it. I’d rather have Durham shooting threes than attacking the paint, etc. 

We need some guys that a defense has to game plan to always have a guy on and be aware of them from behind the arc. Fitzner is the only guy on the roster or a,one the commitments that fits that description at the moment. 

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35 minutes ago, StLHoosier said:

I completely agree that he has an inside out approach on offense, and I see nothing wrong with that.  I was just making the argument that we actually do have some pretty decent shooters.  Again, Al and Morgan are 40% from deep, and Fitzner will be there at the end of the year going off of history and what I’ve seen.  Anderson is a good shooter, but still learning the system and how to play defense at the college level.  Phinisee is a good shooter, but we’re not asking him to shoot right now.  He’s being more focused on getting the offense set up and playing good defense.  Also, we have literally had no continuity with all of the injuries to start the season.  As we build more chemistry and continuity on offense, I believe the shooting percentages will improve.

I think the real issue with our offense is we have the wrong people take shots. I think if we cut down on that percentages would tick up. 

The FTs are inexcusable. I have a bad knee and don’t see out of one eye and I can hit 70 percent of my FTs

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43 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, I’m getting concerned about the shooting. Fitzner is really the only pure shooter on the entire roster, and at 6’10” he’s a catch and shoot guy, not a playmaker that can shoot. There’s very few teams that go deep in March and win conference titles that don’t have at least a guard or two and some wings that can shoot consistently from deep.

I mentioned this in the postgame thread, but while I’d certainly love if TJD can convince Isiah Stewart to join him and hopefully Brooks at IU, I’d be really concerned about shooting for next years team, especially if Langford leaves. Who are the shooters? Who are the guards that can knock down big three’s and spread the floor for those bigs?

I'm less worried about shooting next year than this. I think Phinisee, Durham, Hunter, Anderson, Green and Race is enough shooting from our rotation. I'm assuming some growth from each of those guys, but I don't think it's anything unreasonable. 

I'm more concerned about free throws. If Archie isn't emphasising it, why not? Why aren't the players putting in the extra work there?

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9 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Then why is it bad every year he coaches?

I have a theory, and I wouldn’t dream of questioning a player’s account of what transpired in practice, but, I believe FT’s aren’t being prioritized in practice. But then, seeing how much work we need on other areas of the game, as a unit, I can understand why.

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Big difference between a shooter, and a guy who can shoot. We have a bunch of guys who can shoot, but only one shooter - Fitzner. (maybe Anderson too, but I don't think the rest of his game is ready to contribute)

Considering our two best players are a post player and an elite slasher, I'd say floor spacing is of the utmost importance on this year's team. Offensively I think we are better team with Fitzner in there instead of Smith.

I don't blame Archie for having the team low in 3PA given the rosters he's had at IU so far. But I do hope his teams in the future start taking and making more threes.

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4 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I'm less worried about shooting next year than this. I think Phinisee, Durham, Hunter, Anderson, Green and Race is enough shooting from our rotation. I'm assuming some growth from each of those guys, but I don't think it's anything unreasonable. 

I'm more concerned about free throws. If Archie isn't emphasising it, why not? Why aren't the players putting in the extra work there?

There’s not a single shooter in the group you mentioned, and we’ll be losing our best scorer. That has me way more concerned about shooting than this season. At least this season we have Fitzner, along with Langford and Morgan who are scorers. 

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3 hours ago, StLHoosier said:

I don’t consider 70% particularly struggling.  Would I like to see it closer to 75%?  Sure, but 70% is ok.  That’s what his teams have shot historically so that’s a good barometer imo.  When you say “struggle every year” what time frame are you referring to?

The past five seasons they haven't finished in the top 200. What exactly is not struggling about that in your opinion?

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

There’s not a single shooter in the group you mentioned, and we’ll be losing our best scorer. That has me way more concerned about shooting than this season. At least this season we have Fitzner, along with Langford and Morgan who are scorers. 

None of them are spot up shooters, but Fitzner is the only one we have this year. 

I expect all those guys to be able to shoot north of 35%. Is that a reasonable expectation? If our team comes in at something like 38% is that really a problem? I don't think so. 

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1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

None of them are spot up shooters, but Fitzner is the only one we have this year. 

I expect all those guys to be able to shoot north of 35%. Is that a reasonable expectation? If our team comes in at something like 38% is that really a problem? I don't think so. 

If I’m coaching against a lineup of Durham, Phinisee Hunter, Anderson, Green and Race, I’m ecstatic if they spend the game shooting 3’s. I’d be game-planning to make them shoot three’s. There’s not a single guy there (maybe Anderson) that scares me if we can keep them out of the paint and have them shooting threes. 

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53 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

The past five seasons they haven't finished in the top 200. What exactly is not struggling about that in your opinion?

To quote you, “I’m not going to answer your question until you answer mine.”  I’m talking about percentages.  What percentage would you like them to shoot?

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17 minutes ago, StLHoosier said:

To quote you, “I’m not going to answer your question until you answer mine.”  I’m talking about percentages.  What percentage would you like them to shoot?

I think any team should be able to shoot 75% because it is all about getting a routine and doing it every time.  Sometimes it looks like Morgan gets the ball and just shoots it without taking a dribble or looking at the rim.  When shooting a free throw you need to relax and take a couple of dribbles and concentrating on the front of the rim before shooting.

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3 minutes ago, rico said:

100%

Lol I would love that, but that’s not realistic.  The question was in realistic terms.  I say 70% isn’t terrible, and I’ve seen other posters reference the same percentage.  I would like to see it closer to 75%, but I could live with 70%.  I’m just curious as to what the expected percentage is.  Is it 75%? 80%? 

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6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think any team should be able to shoot 75% because it is all about getting a routine and doing it every time.  Sometimes it looks like Morgan gets the ball and just shoots it without taking a dribble or looking at the rim.  When shooting a free throw you need to relax and take a couple of dribbles and concentrating on the front of the rim before shooting.

I HATE Morgan’s free throw routine, if you can even call it a routine.  I was always one of those “three dribble guys” but at least take one dribble IMO.  I’m a firm believer that it helps with the rhythm of the shot.

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1 minute ago, StLHoosier said:

Lol I would love that, but that’s not realistic.  The question was in realistic terms.  I say 70% isn’t terrible, and I’ve seen other posters reference the same percentage.  I would like to see it closer to 75%, but I could live with 70%.  I’m just curious as to what the expected percentage is.  Is it 75%? 80%? 

70% is a good percentage....what kills you is missing the front end of 1 and 1.  My ball coach used to keep stats on that.

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