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Season is more than halfway over. I know the injuries have derailed things and probably will cause us to never know what could have been with Jerome. However...I can't understand how a player or players don't step up and say enough is enough when in the middle of 25 point swing to a really average Maryland team. There were plenty of positives yes.....but no conditioning for RP, Deron shouldn't even play for another week, guys are sick....and of course missing Hunter/Race. Frustrating. Morgan is getting gassed by 10 minute mark in 2nd half because he literally has no one else to help him on the block.

 

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Caution: Rambling post, lacking in dread and dismay: Coming into the season, we as good fans, were optimistic for several reasons: a highly ranked 5-star freshman and another who was reported to

Fitzner's Plus Minus: -24

Conference road games against 2 teams with a combined record of 30-3. That can do it.

The glaring stat to me was the rebounding difference, particularly the OR's.....Maryland 18, IU 3.  C'mon.  

I don't care what CAM is seeing in practice, the games are what count.  There was absolutely no reason to not play Damezi, Jake, or Clif.  In his pregame show with Fisch he said they were going to play.  Instead, I am stuck watching Fitz, McBob, and a hobbling De'Ron out there.  Fitz and McBob bring nothing to the table.  Zip, zero, nada.  De'Ron does if he is healthy.  I guess Archie was watching a different game than what I was. 

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We traded our typical slow starts in the first half for a REALLY slow start in the second.  I thought that Greene killed us late in the first half will ill advised shots, and it only continued in the second half.  I was really hoping he would turn the corner this year, after he played well late last year, but it just hasn’t happened.  With it being Rob’s first game back, it looked like he just couldn’t get comfortable in the minutes he did play.

I was expecting more from Fitzner than what he’s shown, sans the Marquette game. He gives us someone who can stretch the floor, but when he’s not making (or taking) his shots, he doesn’t bring much to the team.  I’m with @5fouls and would have liked to see Moore in the second half take some of his minutes.  He would have given us some length on the front court to help on the boards and protect the rim.  With the way things went the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half, I wouldn’t have minded seeing Anderson get some minutes, hoping for an offensive spark.  

I think the 2nd half is what CAM refers to when he talks about the team needing to get tougher.  We came out lax in the 2nd half, and by the time we kicked it in gear, Romeo’s heroics couldn’t save us.  It was a disheartening loss, considering how well we played the first 15 minutes.  Let’s just hope we can take some lessons away from this game and learn from them.

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Just now, StLHoosier said:

We traded our typical slow starts in the first half for a REALLY slow start in the second.  I thought that Greene killed us late in the first half will ill advised shots, and it only continued in the second half.  I was really hoping he would turn the corner this year, after he played well late last year, but it just hasn’t happened.  With it being Rob’s first game back, it looked like he just couldn’t get comfortable in the minutes he did play.

I was expecting more from Fitzner than what he’s shown, sans the Marquette game. He gives us someone who can stretch the floor, but when he’s not making (or taking) his shots, he doesn’t bring much to the team.  I’m with @5fouls and would have liked to see Moore in the second half take some of his minutes.  He would have given us some length on the front court to help on the boards and protect the rim.  With the way things went the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half, I wouldn’t have minded seeing Anderson get some minutes, hoping for an offensive spark.  

I think the 2nd half is what CAM refers to when he talks about the team needing to get tougher.  We came out lax in the 2nd half, and by the time we kicked it in gear, Romeo’s heroics couldn’t save us.  It was a disheartening loss, considering how well we played the first 15 minutes.  Let’s just hope we can take some lessons away from this game and learn from them.

Your last sentence is all that matters now. The same way we lost at Arkansas probably allowed us to win at Penn St. I'm hoping this morning the way we lost last night propels us to road wins at Purdue and at Northwestern after our home game Monday. 

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9 hours ago, cohete15 said:

We have absolutely zero depth. Zero. We have 6 players that are CAPABLE on both ends of the floor. Tired of hearing about "the injuries". Yes, Jerome would have helped, but there should absolutely not be that big of a drop off from your 6th/7th man on the bench to the 8th. Race Thompson wasn't and isn't going to give us much this year.

I don't understand everyone ragging on Devonte Green. He played 60 minutes on our last 2 road games against tough opponents. Zero turnovers, 24 points and good defense. Don't like a couple of his shots? Fair. But at least he shoots the ball. Some of the guys on this team would rather dribble or pass to someone else until the shot clock runs out. 

Our bench played 53 minutes. They had 4 shot attempts. They made zero of them. Two of the players (Rob and McBob) combined for 31 minutes with zero shot attempts. 

Agree with everything here except your take on the injuries. You may be tired of hearing about them and I am too but the reality is that they are the reason we have no depth (which was considered a strength before they happened) and the reason for the drop off from the 6/7th guy to the 8th (because 8th is probably 11/12th if the true 8 thru 10 or 11th guys weren't hurt)

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I personally would leave Deron and McBob out until 100% healthy and IN SHAPE.  Roll now with the inexperience of Demezi, Moore, and hopefully Forrester soon.   

Come March those minutes coupled with healthy and IN shape versions of Davis and Bob could = that deep squad we all envisioned.  If it means another L or 2 along the way, big deal, the goal is March.   

There are no freshmen come March.  

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9 hours ago, HOOSIER1321 said:

Took a break because people seemed to be getting heated in the game thread. But I’ll say it again, Indiana has to start winning these kinds of games. I wasn’t upset after Duke or Michigan, but I am sick of losing the games like Arkansas and Maryland. And it’s not just this year or this coach. It’s been Indiana basketball for about 20 years. It’s time as a fanbase to raise our standards. I really don’t care who’s to blame. The players, coaches (past and present), administration, whoever. But the Indiana basketball I grew up with was better than this. 

 

This dosnt mean I hate the coach, or wanted someone else. I actually like Miller. I also liked Crean in the beginning. But these guys are at Indiana now. Expectations should be higher and so should the demands of the fanbase. 

The Indiana you and I grew up with does not exist.

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Didn't watch the game,haven't read much either..but if cam and this team want to have success this year and even years going forward they need to start learning how to win these types of games,games like this is how you start building sustainable success and fwiw this is really what i consider cam first year..injuries have played a big part this year but the good teams adapt and over come ,still plenty of time this year to figure this out.

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1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

They must suck worse than fitz.😢

At some point last night (and other games, to be honest), if I'm Archie I;m throwing practice out the window.  We needed help inside last night in the worst way.  Moore is available on the bench.  No matter how bad he may be during the week in practice, he's always seemed to be at least serviceable in the games he played.  Now, I;ll admit that Maryland's big men are a step up from what he plays against in mop-up duty, but there is no way he hurts us any worse than Fitzner did last night unless he started making shots in our own goal.   

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6 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

At some point last night (and other games, to be honest), if I'm Archie I;m throwing practice out the window.  We needed help inside last night in the worst way.  Moore is available on the bench.  No matter how bad he may be during the week in practice, he's always seemed to be at least serviceable in the games he played.  Now, I;ll admit that Maryland's big men are a step up from what he plays against in mop-up duty, but there is no way he hurts us any worse than Fitzner did last night unless he started making shots in our own goal.   

Exactly, and well said.  And I would say the same thing about McBob.  Damezi can play his position, at least he will shoot the damn ball.  I am still scratching my head as to what Archie is doing.  Makes no sense.  The sky WAS falling last night.  Fitzner and McRoberts were non -existant.  Hey coach try somebody else.  We pissed one away.

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Caution: Rambling post, lacking in dread and dismay:

Coming into the season, we as good fans, were optimistic for several reasons: a highly ranked 5-star freshman and another who was reported to look very good coming in as well as an under ranked one and a couple of other quality recruits, Race being healthy with a season to acclimate and prepare physically, Green with 12 months to learn, a 5th year senior who we believed would be a deadeye 3 point shooter, a returning senior who would compete for POY honors in the B10.  Yet, most saw us a likely second to fourth place team (best case).

Multiple injuries with significant time lost to those players, not only resulting them not playing but also retarding their development have plagued us right from the opening week.  Green not showing the improved maturity we hoped for and Fitzner only being a good contributor for the first few games before becoming more of a detriment than an asset.  Objectively these are reasons for our "ceiling" to be lowered a notch or two.

The good news is Morgan has been excellent, Romeo has largely lived up to his billing, Rob was really beginning to acclimate well to being a D1 PG prior to his concussion, Justin has begun to play very well on the defensive end and play within himself at the offensive end, Al has shown flashes of what we hope he will become, and Deron has provided some good minutes despite coming off a serious injury.  As others have noted, we have an improved record and overall better defensive rankings.

One thing we are going to be "stuck" with is not having anyone who can defend big, strong, inside players.  We just don't have that kind of player on the roster.  I think that the Miller defensive principles can ideally deal with big guys, but right now we can't with a lack of talent (experience) up front.  I don't know if big guys are something that Archie will recruit into his vision of play.  Heck, when's the last time we had a dominating post presence? Cody?  Hopefully, our other inconsistent facet (shooting) can improve.

TL:DR

Our optimistic hopes have to be adjusted due to several factors (some beyond the coaches control), but all is not lost.  My hope is that as we get healthier, and the freshmen get more experience under their belts we can get on a roll in the second half of the conference season with a favorable schedule.

P.S.  I wholely agree that we need to get Moore, Anderson, and Forrester some minutes that a couple of other players are getting.

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

At the end of the season, last night's loss probably cost us a seed line in the NCAA tournament.  Not because it was a bad loss, but it was a good win we let slip away.  

Thank you. Been trying to figure out the best way to say what a loss like that did. Especially since we don't get a return trip from them. Could be the difference between 4 and 5 which as we all know is the difference between playing close in 1st/2nd round or getting shipped to Spokane.

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33 minutes ago, The Daily Hoosier said:

Indiana at Maryland -- The Report Card.  Indiana changes the narrative and yet ends up with more of the same.

Final grades
Archie post game
Highlights
Box score/specialty stats

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/indiana-at-maryland-the-report-card/

Glad to see you give out a 'D'.  

Also, very interesting point you made about how Romeo was able to slow down Cowan.  I thought the same thing while watching the game and wished Archie had tried that earlier.

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2 hours ago, cybergates said:

Agree with everything here except your take on the injuries. You may be tired of hearing about them and I am too but the reality is that they are the reason we have no depth (which was considered a strength before they happened) and the reason for the drop off from the 6/7th guy to the 8th (because 8th is probably 11/12th if the true 8 thru 10 or 11th guys weren't hurt)

I considered your take prior to my post...I have for the past couple weeks really.

In my opinion, the "depth is a big strength of this team" take was one based off no merit.

In general (not saying everyone), people thought we were going to get production from Jake Forrester...because he "brings so much energy" when on the floor. That's what we were told. There was the assumption that Zach McRoberts would provide a little bit on the offensive end. He provides less this year than last. This team has improved enough defensively where I'm not sure how much better Zach's defense is than the guys he would be playing over. There was the assumption that Justin Smith and Al Durham have made this big Frosh-to-Soph jump. They are improved...especially Justin defensively only, and Al from 3-point range. There was the assumption that the 6'11, career 44% three-point shooter would provide us that floor stretching ability and 6-8 points per game, meanwhile grabbing just a few rebounds. What were the expectations for Clifton Moore, Deron and Damezi? I don't know...probably not much...which is about what we've gotten. But this assumption that Race Thompson is the missing piece to the puzzle, is in my opinion, about as silly as all the above assumptions were. The kid is 18 years old, sat out for a year and hadn't played in a game since HS and would be filling the role as an undersized but fairly strong, not super skilled big man. I'm not so sure he was going to see the floor before Clifton Moore.

So, I am making Jerome Hunter our 7th guy. I think it's completely reasonable to say he would be getting 20 minutes a game...especially at this point in the year. But I do want to play devil's advocate here on Jerome... He won the gold jersey one week. Devonte is on his 2nd straight week of gold jersey. Reports on Jerome in practice were good. Reports on Jake, Justin, Al and Devonte were good. Reports were that Evan is our best shooter. Reports were.....depth is a strength of this team.

We need one of a few things to happen....better players, better development of our players or better utilization of our players.

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My post probably came across very doom and gloom. Didn't mean it that way. More of just a reality check. 

The other reality check is that we are 3-2 in the B1G. We have 2 of probably our 3 toughest conference road games out of the way. We showed we are good enough, even with our limitations, to win those games.

This team will only continue to get better, and I'll still stand by my prediction of IU to finish 3rd in the league.

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12 hours ago, dgambill said:

Ok...Nothing more can be said...lost a game we should have won and to a team we are better than. Purdue had blown their lead much like us so both Indiana squads are going down it seems. Night guys!

This is where I disagree because Maryland is better than us

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11 hours ago, HOOSIER1321 said:

Took a break because people seemed to be getting heated in the game thread. But I’ll say it again, Indiana has to start winning these kinds of games. I wasn’t upset after Duke or Michigan, but I am sick of losing the games like Arkansas and Maryland. And it’s not just this year or this coach. It’s been Indiana basketball for about 20 years. It’s time as a fanbase to raise our standards. I really don’t care who’s to blame. The players, coaches (past and present), administration, whoever. But the Indiana basketball I grew up with was better than this. 

 

This dosnt mean I hate the coach, or wanted someone else. I actually like Miller. I also liked Crean in the beginning. But these guys are at Indiana now. Expectations should be higher and so should the demands of the fanbase. 

Let me ask you how does fans raising their standards help the product on the court.

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