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Archie quit at Dayton to come to IU. Khristian Lander quit his high school to reclassify for IU.    Disloyal selfish losers.  Low character.  Probably poison to the team (there are rumors,

Smith isn’t an NBA anything.

I wish this topic would slowly sink to the bottom.  Bottom line is Justin doesn't want to play for us anymore.  Doesn't matter why.  Time to move on.

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4 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Well be really didn't have much choice.  If Jerome had been 100% and Race wasn't constantly injured I doubt Justin gets nearly as many minutes. 

And yet those two players are the guys that people are saying will just play more to make up for this loss

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2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

We couldn’t rely on them last year and now it’s a foregone conclusion we can rely on them next year?  Seems sort of silly. No wait the word is stupid. 

If you don't think Jerome will be a lot more ready this season I don't know what to tell you.  Race is literally the most unlucky player ever if he gets hurt again.  

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2 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Agree with this all day. To me if anything this frees up things inside. 

How is that? We have three post players. If Brunk, TJD, or Thompson get hurt our first "big" off the bench will be a 6-6 195 lb freshman.

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I'm late to the party but read all posts. Lots of good points. IMO, we'll be fine. Smith leaving would be a big opportunity for Thompson. TJD-Thompson combo on the low block can be a pleasure to watch. Hunter seems to be an obvious choice at the 3 because he got developing skills and shooting. Or Al starts at the wing position (3 guard lineup) with Phinisee-Lander and CAM uses Hunter to back up 3 or 4 spots (more so at 3 spot). Bright side is we won't have to deal with Edward Smith. When team's struggling in mid season, he's gonna drop a bomb on social media implying his son is not utilized the right way. Lot of us talked about his defense, but offensively he was very limited. And as a 3-year starter, he couldn't develop go to moves or improve his shooting enough for CAM to at least consider him at the 3. This is a pure speculation on my end, but was he a positive force in the locker room as an older kid? I have my doubt about that. I wouldn't say we'd be better off without him, but it's simply 'next man up'. We'll miss him and his contributions in certain areas, but at the same time, other kids would fill the void or we may think other kids taking Smith's minutes do admirable jobs. 

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1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I appreciate what Justin did as a player.  I’m proud of his accomplishments as a student.  He’s obviously a bright young man and I wish him well.

The main concern I have in the aftermath of his departure is depth, frankly.  The timing seems odd.  Maybe he needed to graduate to be sure. I will give him the benefit of the doubt.  But, we would have had time earlier to seek a grad transfer with that particular spot open and without his presence lingering over a new transfer recruit’s potential playing time.  Maybe Damezi would have stayed.  But, who knows, maybe all parties knew the whole way and it didn’t change the course (although I’d imagine that Archie would have recruited a veteran for that spot).

As a player, and this isn’t a knock on him, but I wouldn’t have recruited him if I were the coach.  He can do some good things but he’s not my cup of tea as a player.  That’s not to say he is bad, just not the type I would play with if I were building a team.  It’s not good or bad, just not the piece in the way I would build a roster.

He is a good athlete but not in all respects.  He jumps well and his end to end speed is great.  But laterally, he is not particularly adroit.  When you see him try to handle in space, his athleticism is simply not there.  There is more to athleticism than speed and jumping.  His lateral coordination and agility just isn’t particularly good.  That’s why he struggles in those situations.  He’s limited physically.  

I like what Archie said about Justin.  But, look at how he is recruiting the 2, 3 and 4 positions.  He is not looking for the Smith skill set.  You’ve got guys like Mason Miller at forward or even Wesley on the wing, or the kid on the east coast who’s name escapes me.  They have skill sets more in line what I’d seek so it seems like I’m in tune with Archie.  More agile and skilled on the wing.  Kaufman is bigger and more skilled as a four.  We seem to be looking for more skill, versatility, agility, etc.

I wish Justin well.  

 

 

My feelings pretty well summed up. We needed Justin’s defense and senior leadership I think more than anything. I wish him well. Congrats on the degree. Only wish we would have landed Garcia even more now...Dawson would have been a perfect fit in this offense and now even more immediate minutes to play.

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1 hour ago, Steubenhoosier said:

IMO, Justin’s smarts are going to be what’s most missed on this team next season.

 The pack line is not an easy defense to learn or play. It takes 5 guys working in cohesion to be effective. I think it’s a more cerebral strategy and requires kids to constantly be thinking and communicating. I think Justin was so good defensively because he understood the pack line. I don’t know if he was a communicator, but possibly that was the next step CAM was hoping he’d take-to be more of a leader.

We’ll never know if he could have become that for the Hoosiers, but he certainly will be missed 

Yep Trayce said he was huge for communicating the defense to him.

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I liked smith a lot, probably would have etched his name in the IU record books somewhere.  But not a fan after this.  IU is a destination for grad transfers, not a place the highest minute player leaves.  It’s big time, big publicity.  Seems like a slap in the face to the program.  Archie gave him his shot at the 3, clearly gave the young man all respect and opportunity....then this.  Because of this, his departure is disappointing but hate to admit kinda glad in a way.  What’s worse, so late as to limit archies chance to react.

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I’d say Archie probably already knew this was coming with his graduation. I doubt it was something the nba scouts told him that caused him to leave. Look we can all speculate..maybe he has the chance to get a masters degree from another really good school and still play..who knows but he played hard for 3 years...we don’t beat Michigan State without that big game of his...he had some good moments. I think we all expected more but at least he didn’t take plays off on defense...he was one of our best on ball defenders. Good luck!

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1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I appreciate what Justin did as a player.  I’m proud of his accomplishments as a student.  He’s obviously a bright young man and I wish him well.

The main concern I have in the aftermath of his departure is depth, frankly.  The timing seems odd.  Maybe he needed to graduate to be sure. I will give him the benefit of the doubt.  But, we would have had time earlier to seek a grad transfer with that particular spot open and without his presence lingering over a new transfer recruit’s potential playing time.  Maybe Damezi would have stayed.  But, who knows, maybe all parties knew the whole way and it didn’t change the course (although I’d imagine that Archie would have recruited a veteran for that spot).

As a player, and this isn’t a knock on him, but I wouldn’t have recruited him if I were the coach.  He can do some good things but he’s not my cup of tea as a player.  That’s not to say he is bad, just not the type I would play with if I were building a team.  It’s not good or bad, just not the piece in the way I would build a roster.

He is a good athlete but not in all respects.  He jumps well and his end to end speed is great.  But laterally, he is not particularly adroit.  When you see him try to handle in space, his athleticism is simply not there.  There is more to athleticism than speed and jumping.  His lateral coordination and agility just isn’t particularly good.  That’s why he struggles in those situations.  He’s limited physically.  

I like what Archie said about Justin.  But, look at how he is recruiting the 2, 3 and 4 positions.  He is not looking for the Smith skill set.  You’ve got guys like Mason Miller at forward or even Wesley on the wing, or the kid on the east coast who’s name escapes me.  They have skill sets more in line what I’d seek so it seems like I’m in tune with Archie.  More agile and skilled on the wing.  Kaufman is bigger and more skilled as a four.  We seem to be looking for more skill, versatility, agility, etc.

I wish Justin well.  

 

 

I think he's reached his ceiling.  His inability to significantly improve his shot says a lot to me.  Same goes for ballhandling.  Those things tend to limit your effectiveness.   Just my opinion.

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How can we ignore that Race and Hunter were two of our best players down the stretch last year when we talk about their ability to replace Smith? 

I think the conversation should be if Brunk can fill in for Smith, because he was losing minutes like crazy at the end of last year. 

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4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

How can we ignore that Race and Hunter were two of our best players down the stretch last year when we talk about their ability to replace Smith? 

I think the conversation should be if Brunk can fill in for Smith, because he was losing minutes like crazy at the end of last year. 

Jerome has to continue to knock down shots but most importantly play better defense. Race just needs to continue working on stepping out and developing his jumper. It definitely creates opportunity for others to step up. 10 and 5 on an offensively challenged team is no small amount to make up. 

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7 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

It's more of a bashing of Tom Crean.  Most just don't want any player associated with Crean anywhere near the program. 

Does that include Zeller and Victor?  Maybe you can pony up for the newest locker room upgrades to erase their presence there as well?

 

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1 hour ago, Shooter said:

How is that? We have three post players. If Brunk, TJD, or Thompson get hurt our first "big" off the bench will be a 6-6 195 lb freshman.

Kind of tells you which direction this thing is going right??? 2002 Hoosiers being reincarnated. 

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34 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

How can we ignore that Race and Hunter were two of our best players down the stretch last year when we talk about their ability to replace Smith? 

I think the conversation should be if Brunk can fill in for Smith, because he was losing minutes like crazy at the end of last year. 

Very good point. Some of our best down the stretch this past year was TJD, Hunter, and Race. Add Lander to that mix?? I'm all fine for being nice and all to players who leave but give me an explosive guard....who can pick and pop with one or dish for an easy layup. As I said a few pages ago. Smith is a fine player...but he clogged up the lane. 

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For those supporting Justin Smith, did you guys watch any of the games last year?  He can’t shoot, he can’t dribble, and he isn’t a good passer.  I’m sorry, but if you can’t do those things, you’re just not a good basketball player. He was a decent on ball defender, but was a very poor off ball defender like @BGleas alluded to.  Even with being a decent defender, there’s not one time last year where I thought he really locked a guy up, and I’d argue that RP is our best defender.  

Just because people don’t like JS’s game, doesn’t mean they’re bashing him as a person. They’re just being realistic with what they’re seeing and what he’s proven to be during his time here.  Grading him as a person and a basketball player are not one in the same.  After all, the kid came here to play basketball and should be graded on that.

In terms of next years team, we will be fine.  This will free up the offense imo and we should see an improvement on that front.  You’re going to play Brunk and TJD together quite a bit, and we sorely need someone to be able to knock down outside shots when they demand double teams.  JS just couldn’t do that and teams knew it, hence them not even closing out on him.  I believe Hunter and other guys will fill that role this year.  Hunter started to show that towards the end of the year last year, but you could tell he was still working his way back after being out for so long.  

 

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Just saw the news and read through this thread. Took me by surprise. I liked Justin. More as a person than a basketball player. I have to stick with my fellow Illinoisans. That was his shortfall. Had he grown up playing in IN, I think he would have had a higher basketball IQ. At the end of the day, he is a role player. One who didn't accept his likely role on the team this year. I'll miss him, wish him well, but won't be surprised if he regrets his decision to leave. 

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I guess I'm coming a this from a different perspective...

What's done is done. Smith's made the decision to transfer. We aren't going to change that (not that any of us are trying to) but the diversity of opinions as to why he's transferring makes up the majority of this thread. Frankly, the "why" is irrelevant at this point IMO. He's gone. Good luck to him, and congrats on a BS degree in 3 years.

So what's next ? Very little talk of Armaan in this thread. Yes, he's a guard, but he lead the team in charges, mostly under the basket. That tells me, that he played a lot of "3" defensively when it mattered. The guys is built like a brick outhouse, and has proven he can shoot at least as good as anybody else on the team, other than Al, from 3 pt land. I think he makes a huge jump this coming year. Same with Hunter, IF...he stays healthy, and doesn't have physical restrictions. Race will take up right where he left off at the end of the year, and get better as the year goes on. And then there's TJD...we all know the upside for him.

The other person essentially ignored here is Galloway. Yes, he's a Freshman, but supposedly is committed to defense like Geronimo. He could be a ringer as a freshman. Wasn't he a leading candidate for Mr Basketball, along with Leal?

With Archie's philosophy that guards his first priority, I could easily see 3, and sometimes a 4 guard line up at times. We certainly have the depth at that position now. I also think the offense gets more diversified.

 

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3 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

I don’t get the mindset that losing Smith is a net gain.  If you truly believe that then you must not think much of Archie since he willingly chose to play Smith more than any other player last year. 

Last years team and this years team are two different teams. Last years team had a huge deficiency on the wing. Hunter wasn’t ready and had just missed a full year, Franklin wasn’t ready and the team in general couldn’t really go small because we lacked depth and had injuries in the backcourt. Smith almost had to play a lot. 

But as @KoB2011 said, down the stretch as Hunter got more comfortable and Race got healthy, the best lineup in the front court was Hunter, Race and TJD and that group got more and more minutes. 

Next year, IU doesn’t have those issues. The depth at the guard/wing is much deeper so Smith’s minutes would have gone down or at least been moved to the 4. 

It’s a net gain because Smith is a one-way, limited player. Archie is brining up multi-dimensional players that play both ways. Stop trying to spin people’s thoughts on Smith into some backdoor commentary on Archie. 

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