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8 hours ago, WanamakerIUFan said:

Scott, i would think this because I do this stuff for a living and like a previous poster wrote, coaches don't think like you. here is why I would think that: When you get to that level, it's 99.9999% ego driven. you want to fire a guy like michael jordan or kobe bryant up, challenge his manhood. challenge his ego. they simply won't back down. and it can be over the smallest of things. if you don't understand this then I don't know what to tell you. if you don't think brad stevens works this way then, well, you just are wrong. bob knight was an egomaniacal narcissist. it's what made him a 3-time national champion and an olympic gold medal winner. stevens comes off corporate. great. he's a good guy. I've spent a decent amount of time with stevens. he's an incredible guy, but to think he's not run by ego is crazy. coaches MUST have that type of swagger to coach the Boston Celtics. It's the Celtics for crying out loud. 

so you force his hand. you ask him to chase legendary status. you sell him on being the true heir to RMK. You challenge him to chase immortality. if he turns it down then fine. he's not the guy IU wants. maybe he thinks he can chase that in Boston and has a better shot at it. I don't agree. 

This is why Stevens is in play more than people realize. It's naïve to think Alabama didn't sell Saban on the above and at the end of the day Saban thought he could chase harder at Alabama than he could with the Dolphins. And as far as "looking at this job the way we fans do", man it's Indiana. It's a sleeping giant. Everyone knows that.

Very well said. The Return to glory to be a legend to be put in the same sentence with Bob Knight drives people.  Brad is wired just like you said. If he wins at Boston he is still just another coach. Championships are expected and yes coaching the Celtics would be the dream job for 99 percent of coaches. Is BS that 1 percent that believes he can get IU back more so than what he is doing. Make him a ridiculous offer and if he says no so be it

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I guess I don't really know why people are freaking out. Dolson clearly stated that you wont hear from him again until they hire a coach. He doesn't owe us anything to be honest, so what are people ge

Why do people even say crap like this? What corroborated evidence do you have that we've been missing on so many coaches? What has been so embarrassing? That we haven't hired a new coach barely a week

Finally, someone said it.

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24 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I am all in. Plays a great style obviously knows how to win. If getting a lap dance now and again will help 5 star guards relax enough to hit layups I am all in. Outside of flat out paying players directly from coach to player I think I can turn my head over most issues that people might have with Rick. 

Heck, at my age give me a lap dance and a hooker and I will play for him!

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16 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Just a question because I couldn't find anything my self. Did Dolson and Lawrence Frank's paths cross when they were both student managers?

Possibly in passing I believe Dolson gradauted the year before Frank started his freshman year. 

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This team needs a psychologist more than a coach.

Rob is as fragile as crystal stemware. He struggled from the word go with pressure as if he had never faced it before. No attack. No confidence. No chance to compete. You could see him pause in the middle of passing as if he wasn't sure that's what he should be doing, which gave the defense time to react. I have to wonder if things in his personal life are causing him to regress as a player. It would be difficult to claim a concussion from two years ago is the issue today.

Armaan can claim the ankle is still a problem but he took some really rushed and out of control shots. So did Trey. Hunter comes out firing but some of his shots miss by three feet. Race was battling on the boards but offered no offense. So three of your five starters playing 60 minutes totaled 2 points. TWO POINTS!

Your two "point guards", a.k.a. Apple and Cherry, turned it over 6 times in 35 minutes and Lander couldn't put down two uncontested layups. I'll give Al credit for having one of his better performances with only two turnovers and having to carry the load for the guards. But for all the struggles on offense the defense was terrible.

It's becoming a real challenge figure out what they are trying to do on defense. They are so far out of position the other team is shooting uncontested threes at will. There is a reason the opponents shoot better against IU than their yearly average. It's Wide Open Shot Day every time IU takes the court. Archie should have to explain to the fans what he is teaching them to do so we can see if he is inept in teaching or they are inept at learning. If they came out in the YMCA pick up game open gym 2-3 zone they'd have a better chance than what we are seeing now. It's horrible. Maybe Archie needs to bring in Dick Bennett or some other former coach who ran the pack line and just start over from the basics.

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28 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

2 things. One that would be a negative recruiting nightmare and there's talk that he doesn't want to coach anymore. 

The negative recruiting thing is blown way out of proportion in my opinion. Hall of famers, former players, etc have come out and said Belein was treated unfairly and what he said was blown up in order to get him out.

I dont think he'd have a problem getting his guys.

As far as not wanting to get into coaching, that could be. But he'd be on top of my list.

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5 minutes ago, Euroclydon said:

This teams needs a psychologist more than a coach.

Rob is as fragile as crystal stemware. He struggled from the word go with pressure as if he had never faced it before. No attack. No confidence. No chance to compete. You could see him pause in the middle of passing as if he wasn't sure that's what he should be doing, which gave the defense time to react. I have to wonder if things in his personal life are causing him to regress as a player. It would be difficult to claim a concussion from two years ago is the issue today.

Armaan can claim the ankle is still a problem but he took some really rushed and out of control shots. So did Trey. Hunter comes out firing but some of his shots miss by three feet. Race was battling on the boards but offered no offense. So three of your five starters playing 60 minutes totaled 2 points. TWO POINTS!

Your two "point guards", a.k.a. Apple and Cherry, turned it over 6 times in 35 minutes and Lander couldn't put down two uncontested layups. I'll give Al credit for having one of his better performances with only two turnovers and having to carry the load for the guards. But for all the struggles on offense the defense was terrible.

It's becoming a real challenge figure out what they are trying to do on defense. They are so far out of position the other team is shooting uncontested threes at will. There is a reason the opponents shoot better against IU than their yearly average. It's Wide Open Shot Day every time IU takes the court. Archie should have to explain to the fans what he is teaching them to do so we can see if he is inept in teaching or they are inept at learning. If they came out in the YMCA pick up game open gym 2-3 zone they'd have a better chance than what we are seeing now. It's horrible. Maybe Archie needs to bring in Dick Bennett or some other former coach who ran the pack line and just start over from the basics.

The problem with the players is they don't know what to do if they aren't running a set that Archie calls out. He's turned them into robots and that's why they seem to question things mid play especially if the defense is guarding the play different then they are expecting. This team doesn't know how to actually play basketball. They stand and watch the ball once a play breaks down which is usually when the ball gets thrown inside to Trayce and he takes a contested shot while everyone else stands and watches. 

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1 minute ago, DC2345 said:

The problem with the players is they don't know what to do if they aren't running a set that Archie calls out. He's turned them into robots and that's why they seem to question things mid play especially if the defense is guarding the play different then they are expecting. This team doesn't know how to actually play basketball. They stand and watch the ball once a play breaks down which is usually when the ball gets thrown inside to Trayce and he takes a contested shot while everyone else stands and watches. 

Never thought our half court offense could be worse than under Crean

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Just now, BADGERVOL said:

Never thought our half court offense could be worse than under Crean

At least with Crean guys would move and cut. It was just a lot of out of control dribble drive too and guys got out of control and took bad shots. With Archie it's guys not knowing what to do when their set breaks down because they don't have any kind of base offense to allow guys to make plays. It needs to be a balance of both but that's not what Archie is doing. 

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24 minutes ago, Euroclydon said:

This team needs a psychologist more than a coach.

Rob is as fragile as crystal stemware. He struggled from the word go with pressure as if he had never faced it before. No attack. No confidence. No chance to compete. You could see him pause in the middle of passing as if he wasn't sure that's what he should be doing, which gave the defense time to react. I have to wonder if things in his personal life are causing him to regress as a player. It would be difficult to claim a concussion from two years ago is the issue today.

 

All great points, but especially this. You could almost literally see the guards for Rutgers salivating at going up against Rob, and it seemed pretty obvious they were living in his head. He looked tentative all night - no confidence with anything he was trying to do. Lander is getting better, but those two missed finishes at the rim were rough, and he just doesn't seem ready to start, although his minutes might as well go up considering how bad Rob is playing. Just brutal to watch.

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I think for the next Coach that I have settled on 2 options I would like to see.  Option 1, swing for the fences.  Identify that guy you want and make a big offer.  I think there is one guy that falls in that category.

If that fails, you go the Indiana guy route.  And in my mind there is one guy that you really can look at there too.  And he rubs people the wrong way, has a questionable decision on how he handled an incident in the past, and he has some other deficiencies.  If not him then there is one other guy who is an even bigger gamble IMO, but he is younger and is currently involved in the conference....and that second guy you sure as hell don't pay $3 million a year.

We have done the other things.  Promote from within.  Hired the dirty P5 guy.  Hired the established guy at a smaller school with an impressive tournament run.  Hired the big up and comer with an impressive run.  The only two things in my mind that we really have not tried are hiring from the family and swinging for the fences.  I think the next hire needs to be one of those two categories.

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54 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Never thought our half court offense could be worse than under Crean

In 9 years, Crean had a top 10 Kenpom offense 4 times and a top 25 once.

If you take out his first 2 years because of rebuild (no coach was going to score with freshmen Verdell Jones as best player), he was top 25 Kenpom offense 5 out of 7 years at IU. The only time he wasn't was year 3 and the last year where got fired.

Offense was not Crean's problem....

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3 minutes ago, JugRox said:

In 9 years, Crean had a top 10 Kenpom offense 4 times and a top 25 once.

If you take out his first 2 years because of rebuild (no coach was going to score with freshmen Verdell Jones as best player), he was top 25 Kenpom offense 5 out of 7 years at IU. 

Offense was not Crean's problem....

Half court offense was. Get a well coached and talented enough team to be even close to our talent, and if they can execute and slow the game down and play half court and we’d soil our shorts.

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23 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I think for the next Coach that I have settled on 2 options I would like to see.  Option 1, swing for the fences.  Identify that guy you want and make a big offer.  I think there is one guy that falls in that category.

If that fails, you go the Indiana guy route.  And in my mind there is one guy that you really can look at there too.  And he rubs people the wrong way, has a questionable decision on how he handled an incident in the past, and he has some other deficiencies.  If not him then there is one other guy who is an even bigger gamble IMO, but he is younger and is currently involved in the conference....and that second guy you sure as hell don't pay $3 million a year.

We have done the other things.  Promote from within.  Hired the dirty P5 guy.  Hired the established guy at a smaller school with an impressive tournament run.  Hired the big up and comer with an impressive run.  The only two things in my mind that we really have not tried are hiring from the family and swinging for the fences.  I think the next hire needs to be one of those two categories.

I've said it before but I think Dolson is the guy that finally talks to Alford. Not saying he hires him but I think he at least talks to him to see what he would do to fix the program.  If I was Alford and really wanted the job I would even offer to take a lower salary with some incentives as a way to bet on myself. 

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3 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

I've said it before but I think Dolson is the guy that finally talks to Alford. Not saying he hires him but I think he at least talks to him to see what he would do to fix the program.  If I was Alford and really wanted the job I would even offer to take a lower salary with some incentives as a way to bet on myself. 

I think you're right. I bet our next Coach is Alford b/c Dolson is our AD.

He doesn't make much there (around $1mil) so he wouldn't need to take much lower if at all. His buyout could give Dolson problems though.

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https://watchstadium.com/nevada-coach-steve-alford-signs-10-year-contract-salary-buyout-incentives-04-12-2019/#:~:text=He signed a 10-year,year%2C which is outlined below.

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2 minutes ago, cybergates said:

I think you're right. I bet our next Coach is Alford b/c Dolson is our AD.

I am not sold by any means that Alford is the answer but can it really get worse? We finish 12 or 13th instead and still not make the tourney.  I think if for whatever reason we would have gotten the Archie we thought we were things would have been different.  

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16 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Half court offense was. Get a well coached and talented enough team to be even close to our talent, and if they can execute and slow the game down and play half court and we’d soil our shorts.

Don't know if that's the style of college basketball teams that are winning big.

If you want to be the next Purdue, sure.... 

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5 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I am not sold by any means that Alford is the answer but can it really get worse? We finish 12 or 13th instead and still not make the tourney.  I think if for whatever reason we would have gotten the Archie we thought we were things would have been different.  

 

9 minutes ago, cybergates said:

I think you're right. I bet our next Coach is Alford b/c Dolson is our AD.

It can get much, much, much worse. Alford has done nothing at the P5 level. Was fired both times, Iowa and UCLA. If a coach can't win in the PAC at UCLA, how is he going to win the the B10?

You think we are getting taken advantage of now, just wait if Alford gets a chance.

Part of me wants Alford to get his chance, fail miserably, so that part of the fanbase can move on from "NEED A IU GUY!!!!!".....

Because magic pixie basketball dust is going to happen because Alford was a former player. The guy is a great mid major coach, leave him be.

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Just now, Billingsley99 said:

I am not sold by any means that Alford is the answer but can it really get worse? We finish 12 or 13th instead and still not make the tourney.  I think if for whatever reason we would have gotten the Archie we thought we were things would have been different.  

It can get a little worse, but the point of the coaching change is get better, in this case much better. Alford's cred is mostly with older IU fans at this stage (some of whom are IN HS coaches I'm sure). With AAU taking more precedence in the past decades having the respect of IN HS coaches carries less value.

Most (of the top) recruits seem singularly focused on how can you help me get to the NBA and how fast? Does your style of play showcase me? It seems to be more and more rare for a player to pick a school b/c they want to win games there. It's moving farther and farther down the list. All of these things seem like strikes against Archie, and regardless of how good of a coach he may or may not be, will hinder him however long he remains at IU.

Kaufman picking Turdue illustrated this the brightest for me. Southern IN kid chooses to play there of all places b/c IU kept showing him how they'd use him like TJD who while talented hasn't developed skills for success in the modern NBA. 

So frustrating. 

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3 minutes ago, KDB said:

The day Alford is the Indiana HC is the day I stop caring.

If they hire Alford, to me that is the administration doing something just to shut the fans up. Same with Fife.

It shows that they couldn't care less about the program.

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34 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Half court offense was. Get a well coached and talented enough team to be even close to our talent, and if they can execute and slow the game down and play half court and we’d soil our shorts.

That's my take as well.  If opponents could dictate a slow tempo game we were in trouble.  It's been my impression that it's a lot easier to slow an opponent down than speed them up.  You can design your offense to be up-tempo but you have to be able to execute when that avenue isn't available.

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7 minutes ago, JugRox said:

 

It can get much, much, much worse. Alford has done nothing at the P5 level. Was fired both times, Iowa and UCLA. If a coach can't win in the PAC at UCLA, how is he going to win the the B10?

You think we are getting taken advantage of now, just wait if Alford gets a chance.

Part of me wants Alford to get his chance, fail miserably, so that part of the fanbase can move on from "NEED A IU GUY!!!!!".....

Because magic pixie basketball dust is going to happen because Alford was a former player. The guy is a great mid major coach, leave him be.

I am not an Alford supporter but how does it get worse. Is there really a difference between finishing 11tj and 14th. We know what we have at this point anything is better because at least there might be hope. Hope left a long time ago 

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4 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I am not an Alford supporter but how does it get worse. Is there really a difference between finishing 11tj and 14th. We know what we have at this point anything is better because at least there might be hope. Hope left a long time ago 

How? You think its hard to get rid of Miller, good luck having an IU AD fire Steve Alford as the IU basketball coach.

Alford would be here forever, win or lose. It would be the final nail. 

Alford has shown pretty clearly what he is capable of.

Edited by JugRox
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6 minutes ago, JugRox said:

 

It can get much, much, much worse. Alford has done nothing at the P5 level. Was fired both times, Iowa and UCLA. If a coach can't win in the PAC at UCLA, how is he going to win the the B10?

You think we are getting taken advantage of now, just wait if Alford gets a chance.

Part of me wants Alford to get his chance, fail miserably, so that part of the fanbase can move on from "NEED A IU GUY!!!!!".....

Because magic pixie basketball dust is going to happen because Alford was a former player. The guy is a great mid major coach, leave him be.

Not touting Alford, but he did win 21 or more games 5 of 6 years at UCLA before the partial season he was fired. He won 31 one year and 28 another. Granted the PAC 12 is weaker, but we’d be thrilled if Archie had a similar record. He was 7-6 the year he was fired, after making the NCAAT the prior year. Most coaches would have been given more time to right the ship that season. That tells me they just didn’t like the guy. 

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