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2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

We need to get TJD coming back out of our heads.  Even if not drafted he is not. He has been told 1 year in G league better chance to make a roster than 1 or 2 more years of college. Brunk will be able to practice law before he uses all his eligibility.  Would be shocked after having back surgery to delay your career longer. No facts or info just a gut feeling. Duncomb will have to contribute whether ready or not. He will be good in time. If we are better it won't be enough to recognize in my opinion. Metrics might say better I afraid eye test will say otherwise

Also, TJD's got Dale Davis on his side who played in the NBA for 16 years. That's a tremendous resource that not many college players have. I'm sure he will help his son and provide a lot of resources, which quite possibly is better than what he can get from college. 

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If we finish the season playing like we did tonight, I'm not sure Archie gets a fifth year. He's going to lose the entirety of the fan base. He pretty much already has. I have been just about as

I would prefer Matta.  But, if he's not wanting to come back, get Beilien in here for 3-4 years to stabilize things to the point where a good coach would actually want to come to IU.  

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2 hours ago, IU878176 said:

No big surprise. We were 10th last year and 9th the year before.

One reason we got rid of Crean was because of his inconsistency going from winning the BT, to 8th to winning the BT and then falling to 10th etc,.  Have to to admit that Archie is much more consistent (9th, 10th, 10th or 11th)!!!!

According to what I’ve been told all year that’s ok. You can be improving and the program getting stronger and better even while we sink to the bottom of our conference. So even if we end up 14th next year as long as the team is getting better that should be all that we can expect. That should be good enough.

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2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

We need to get TJD coming back out of our heads.  Even if not drafted he is not. He has been told 1 year in G league better chance to make a roster than 1 or 2 more years of college. Brunk will be able to practice law before he uses all his eligibility.  Would be shocked after having back surgery to delay your career longer. No facts or info just a gut feeling. Duncomb will have to contribute whether ready or not. He will be good in time. If we are better it won't be enough to recognize in my opinion. Metrics might say better I afraid eye test will say otherwise

then we need to get the idea of being good next year out of our heads too!  i think you're right unfortunately.  peoplecan criticize him all they want, but we're gonna miss 20ppg and 10 rpg with no one coming to help that.  

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6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

According to what I’ve been told all year that’s ok. You can be improving and the program getting stronger and better even while we sink to the bottom of our conference. So even if we end up 14th next year as long as the team is getting better that should be all that we can expect. That should be good enough.

No one has said that...

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I’ve been all for Archie getting a 5th year but with the way this season is falling apart and any successes we’ve had been erased along with all the gains of player development also seemingly regressing I’m coming around more and more that this is the perfect season for a fresh start. Plenty of players in the transfer portal to at least put together a similar talent level team. Sure it won’t be tournament sworthy likely but no reason it can’t pass for the level Archie has given us and then recruit and build toward what we all hope is a return to relevance.

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4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

No one has said that...

Scott has many times for one...and he isn’t the only one.

Heard several times that just because we are getting worse in conference it doesn’t matter because overall the team is better and Archie is improving the program.

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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Scott has many times for one...and he isn’t the only one.

When did I ever say that about finishing 14th would be alright.  If you are going to make arguments please at least you don't make things up. 

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Just now, IU Scott said:

When did I ever say that about finishing 14th would be alright.  If you are going to make arguments please at least you don't make things up. 

I finished my post. I accidentally posted it too soon. 

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4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Scott has many times for one...and he isn’t the only one.

Heard several times that just because we are getting worse in conference it doesn’t matter because overall the team is better and Archie is improving the program.

Early in the year I saw people relying on metrics over record, yeah. But nobody was saying that as long as our metrics improve it'd be ok to finish in the bottom third of the conference...

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2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Early in the year I saw people relying on metrics over record, yeah. But nobody was saying that as long as our metrics improve it'd be ok to finish in the bottom third of the conference...

Maybe I misunderstood them...because I took it as we have done better because overall record slightly improve and some metrics went up (defense) so we are improving under Archie despite the fact the B1G opponents are leap frogging us in conference. So I just take it as it’s ok we finish 14th next year as long as the overall record is better then this year and we finish a little higher in the metrics. So I was telling our posting friend don’t worry...that conference finish doesn’t matter...the fact we are getting worse in conference shouldn’t be how we evaluate this team nor Archie.

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3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Maybe I misunderstood them...because I took it as we have done better because overall record slightly improve and some metrics went up (defense) so we are improving under Archie despite the fact the B1G opponents are leap frogging us in conference. So I just take it as it’s ok we finish 14th next year as long as the overall record is better then this year and we finish a little higher in the metrics. So I was telling our posting friend don’t worry...that conference finish doesn’t matter...the fact we are getting worse in conference shouldn’t be how we evaluate this team nor Archie.

I think the elevated metrics early in the year had some believing, probably myself included, it meant improved play and would lead to a higher conference finish...

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3 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

We need to get TJD coming back out of our heads.  Even if not drafted he is not. He has been told 1 year in G league better chance to make a roster than 1 or 2 more years of college. Brunk will be able to practice law before he uses all his eligibility.  Would be shocked after having back surgery to delay your career longer. No facts or info just a gut feeling. Duncomb will have to contribute whether ready or not. He will be good in time. If we are better it won't be enough to recognize in my opinion. Metrics might say better I afraid eye test will say otherwise

Just going to make a comment. Getting drafted in round 1/2 is a far greater chance of making and staying on a NBA roster because of the commitment from the team. Especially for first rounders. Going the G league route and hope to make a roster in the NBA and play for years? Very, very rarely. 

TJD is either leaving to get drafted or coming back to improve his draft status. 1 year in the G league works 1 of 100 times for guys like Nunn....but rarely if ever works for the masses.

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21 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Maybe I misunderstood them...because I took it as we have done better because overall record slightly improve and some metrics went up (defense) so we are improving under Archie despite the fact the B1G opponents are leap frogging us in conference. So I just take it as it’s ok we finish 14th next year as long as the overall record is better then this year and we finish a little higher in the metrics. So I was telling our posting friend don’t worry...that conference finish doesn’t matter...the fact we are getting worse in conference shouldn’t be how we evaluate this team nor Archie.

One thing is if you finish 14th on the league then there is no way your overall record will keep improving. I did say the first 3 years he had improved every year be of the overall wins went from 16,19,20 which could have been more.  I go back when Davis said we finished 4th when we didn't make the tournament.  Minnesota finished behind us but did make the tournament because of the overall body of work.  

The selection committee members doesn't look at the conference standings and just looks at each teams overall body of work.  In ,1990 we finished 8-10 in the conference because we was 10- in the non conference.

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19 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

One thing is if you finish 14th on the league then there is no way your overall record will keep improving. I did say the first 3 years he had improved every year be of the overall wins went from 16,19,20 which could have been more.  I go back when Davis said we finished 4th when we didn't make the tournament.  Minnesota finished behind us but did make the tournament because of the overall body of work.  

The selection committee members doesn't look at the conference standings and just looks at each teams overall body of work.  In ,1990 we finished 8-10 in the conference because we was 10- in the non conference.

We might have a better overall record next year because we will play more irrelevant cupcake non conference games...just like I’m sure someone will discount this year because we didn’t have as many. I care about conference first. We win or finish top of the conference the tournament will take care of itself regardless of non conference. I care about conference first and foremost because those are the primary competition for recruits and I care because they are the people we have to talk to mostly. Our goal every year should be to compete for B1G championships...National championships are so rare and so hard...and honestly at this point so far out of reach but we have to compete in our conference first...and under Archie we haven’t done that for 4 years. Someone said it before but we got guys that haven’t made a tournament and haven’t had a winning conference record graduating...I’ve seen enough. Even if the next coach isn’t the right coach it isn’t like we got any further to fall. 

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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Even if the next coach isn’t the right coach it isn’t like we got any further to fall. 

Like I said in another post, people who say things like this have a very short memory...

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3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

We might have a better overall record next year because we will play more irrelevant cupcake non conference games...just like I’m sure someone will discount this year because we didn’t have as many. I care about conference first. We win or finish top of the conference the tournament will take care of itself regardless of non conference. I care about conference first and foremost because those are the primary competition for recruits and I care because they are the people we have to talk to mostly. Our goal every year should be to compete for B1G championships...National championships are so rare and so hard...and honestly at this point so far out of reach but we have to compete in our conference first...and under Archie we haven’t done that for 4 years. Someone said it before but we got guys that haven’t made a tournament and haven’t had a winning conference record graduating...I’ve seen enough. Even if the next coach isn’t the right coach it isn’t like we got any further to fall. 

I have said over the last month it was a time a change and I want to win the conference ad well.  All I am saying was that last year we would have made the tournament last year because the overall record.  I know it doesn't happen often when a team struggles on the non conference and goes on to win the conference. It happened in 1989 when we actually won the conference but didn't get the #1 seed because our overall body of work wasn't good enough.

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51 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Just going to make a comment. Getting drafted in round 1/2 is a far greater chance of making and staying on a NBA roster because of the commitment from the team. Especially for first rounders. Going the G league route and hope to make a roster in the NBA and play for years? Very, very rarely. 

TJD is either leaving to get drafted or coming back to improve his draft status. 1 year in the G league works 1 of 100 times for guys like Nunn....but rarely if ever works for the masses.

I am just telling you what is being told to me. Not saying it's right decision just what is being discussed 

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4 hours ago, IU Scott said:

You act like we are starting 5 freshman.  Look at how long our starters have been in the program.

AL-4

RP-3

Race-3

TJD-2

Franklin-2.

All of these guys have played major minutes in their time year so being young can't be used for this disaster

Race was Miller's first recruit and was part of the Durham's recruiting class. He redshirted his freshman year so this is his 4th season at IU. Your point stands but the starting lineup is even more experienced than you show here.

 

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Just now, go_iu_bb said:

Race was Miller's first recruit and was part of the Durham's recruiting class. He redshirted his freshman year so this is his 4th season at IU. Your point stands but the starting lineup is even more experienced than you show here.

 

I thought that but couldn't totally remember what year he came in

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17 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Like I said in another post, people who say things like this have a very short memory...

Been here...IU fan since probably 84-85 when I was old enough to watch games with my dad...seen all that has come since. I prepared to go through any of it again if it means we are better than we have gotten the last 4 years. We are wandering in the proverbial wilderness. Archie isn’t our Joshua...heck he wasn’t Moses either in this analogy...I’m ready to leave when the rest of you are.

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19 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Like I said in another post, people who say things like this have a very short memory...

You are correct and it could be worst.  But I don't think the bottom is as far as you think it is.  We're not a laughing stock like many think we are and we're not the to be feared program like some think we should be.  We are pitied.  By our own fans.  The Media.  Other programs.  They look at how the mighty has fallen and can't understand why we don't do something.  Anything.  To right the ship.

Whether its been bad luck, injuries, poor recruiting, talent, chemistry or coaching.  It just isn't working to the degree that we are stacking up at the end of the year with the competition.  Something has to change.  Coach, Assistants, Administration, Fans, or Players.  Something must change.  So far in almost 4 years, almost nothing has.  We're the same team with different players from year 1 to year 4. 

Turnovers - Check
Poor Shooting - Check
Poor Defense - Check (better at times yes)
Non existent Offense - Check
Injuries - Check (not anyone's fault, but its there every year)
Poor Roster Development - Check
Inconsistent play - Check
Free Throw Shooting - Check
Luck? - Check

I appreciate your loyalty to CAM.  But I think you are so loyal you're blinded to actual issues with the program.  You're so ready to fight everyone over every single negative or legit comments that doesn't fit your narrative that you just don't think you can be wrong.  Are some people piling on and going over the top, yes sir they are.  But there are many who make legitimate and well thought our arguments who are not piling on, who are not just being negative, and who are intelligent and informed persons.  Now i am not one of them, so take it for what its worth coming from me.

I know i am going to get blasted for this and that there are holes and flaws in what i say or how i said it.  

 

 

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16 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

But I think you are so loyal you're blinded to actual issues with the program.  You're so ready to fight everyone over every single negative or legit comments that doesn't fit your narrative that you just don't think you can be wrong. 

Not true at all...Legitimate criticism is fine...Don't mind it a bit...as long as it's based in fact and not conjecture or an outright lie to prop up someone's belief that CAM should be fired...

If I give reasons why these first few years haven't gone as a lot of people thought, they're immediately dismissed as "excuses." But injuries have taken their toll. Player leadership has been lacking. Chemistry hasn't been very good.

As I said, I don't think he'll be fired this year, contrary to what most think...They don't mind throwing around other people's money. 

After next year, if we're still in the same spot, then game on...I'll be as anxious as anybody to get a new coach...

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