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I’ve seen improvements in Race, Trayce, Jerome just off the top of my head. I expect and I’m pretty sure you will see improvements in all 4 freshman during their sophomore campaign- big jump from Lander I think - Galloway will leave it all on the floor , Leal should be more comfy shooting the ball- hopefully we run some sets for him, and last but not least is Geronimo-young man has the body and athleticism to make a very good player. So,, I very much doubt we won’t see marked improvements.

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PER (Player Efficiency Rating) for each. These are mostly based on offense with only a few defensive stats used to calculate. It works better for the NBA since the teams all play each other while in t

Here's my 5 for next year. TJD The rest of the spots are all open to competition from returning to incoming players.

The unknown bothers people for some reason. We went into the "unknown" with Coach Woodson and so far, it's gone well. It's ok we don't necessarily know for sure what Kopp, Stewart, and Johnson will gi

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Are we really having a debate if our guards were better last year than they will be this year?

34 and 10 for the new guys vs 23 and 5 for the outgoing guys. 

Even if you say that is just from differences in system, don't we think our system will be more progressive and offensively friendly to where we should expect that? I simply cannot imagine not having a significantly more productive backcourt than we had this past season. 

 

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Interesting to read thoughts on starters.  Too many unknowns yet to have any sense of starters.  
 

That said, with new coaching staff, new beginning of sorts, one guy I am pulling for to reach his potential and get extended time: Jerome Hunter.  If he can earn Woodson’s attention early, get in the mix of regular rotation, Jerome could take off.  Wouldn’t be surprised in the least to see Hunter average 10 ppg or more next season. 

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TJD is 100% starting

After that???

I'm honestly not sure there's a single player I'd say is more than 50% likely to start.  

Race? might start or be a guy who is the other post player and get 18-20 minutes a game.

We have 3 point guards now. All have potential, all have flaws.

We have 3 off guards. All have potential, all have flaws.

Geronimo could definitely have a breakthrough- but reality is that he's a guy who didn't play much on a bad team.  And I'm not sure if woodson would use him as a 3 or 4.

Hunter might pan out and finally be the player we recruited, but that's exactly what I thought he would do a year ago.

And Brunk's health is an issue.  Duncomb is a nice get- but probably at least a year away.

So much experience and so many question marks besides TJD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Are we really having a debate if our guards were better last year than they will be this year?

34 and 10 for the new guys vs 23 and 5 for the outgoing guys. 

Even if you say that is just from differences in system, don't we think our system will be more progressive and offensively friendly to where we should expect that? I simply cannot imagine not having a significantly more productive backcourt than we had this past season. 

 

you certainly may be right, but you're really sold 100% that either guy is better than Franklin?  i mean maybe.  maybe both are.  maybe neither?  it's hard to compare him to Johnson, but i think fair to compare him to Stewart.  do we not think Franklin would have averaged 19ppg for TN Martin?  i would think so.  i'll agree that it seems safe to say they're better than Al.  so, yeah, i guess i would think we come out ahead, but easily?  or by a lot?  i hope so.  point being if we could have kept Franklin AND added those guys... oh well.  

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1 hour ago, Blazin Hazin said:

TJD is 100% starting

After that???

I'm honestly not sure there's a single player I'd say is more than 50% likely to start.  

Race? might start or be a guy who is the other post player and get 18-20 minutes a game.

We have 3 point guards now. All have potential, all have flaws.

We have 3 off guards. All have potential, all have flaws.

Geronimo could definitely have a breakthrough- but reality is that he's a guy who didn't play much on a bad team.  And I'm not sure if woodson would use him as a 3 or 4.

Hunter might pan out and finally be the player we recruited, but that's exactly what I thought he would do a year ago.

And Brunk's health is an issue.  Duncomb is a nice get- but probably at least a year away.

So much experience and so many question marks besides TJD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

fair point.  of course all we can do is speculate and give our opinions, but it's hard to imagine Johnson not starting.  i think it's also pretty easy to say the other 3 will consist of at least 2 of Race, Stewart, and Hunter.  of course that's just my opinion, but seems like the best bets.    

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21 hours ago, hoosier_exotics said:

Depending on Lander's confidence 

Lander 

X

Stewart

Hunter

Trayce

I will say, if Woody can find a way to put Lander and X on the court at the same time, there will be a lot of fast break, 2 on one or 2 on none opportunities.

Edit:  Can you imagine how good of a defender Lander can become facing X in practice everyday?

Edited by Muddy River
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40 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

you certainly may be right, but you're really sold 100% that either guy is better than Franklin?  i mean maybe.  maybe both are.  maybe neither?  it's hard to compare him to Johnson, but i think fair to compare him to Stewart.  do we not think Franklin would have averaged 19ppg for TN Martin?  i would think so.  i'll agree that it seems safe to say they're better than Al.  so, yeah, i guess i would think we come out ahead, but easily?  or by a lot?  i hope so.  point being if we could have kept Franklin AND added those guys... oh well.  

With how they played last year, it’s actually not really even close, XJ was a much better player than Franklin. XJ had more efficient scoring numbers on higher usage, while also producing great assist numbers. Now if Franklin makes similar improvements this off-season like he did last, he could jump to another level. But I think how good Franklin was last year has been overstated a bit simply because he seemed to be the only guy on the team that actually improved, and was one of the few who could shoot threes.

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2 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

you certainly may be right, but you're really sold 100% that either guy is better than Franklin?  i mean maybe.  maybe both are.  maybe neither?  it's hard to compare him to Johnson, but i think fair to compare him to Stewart.  do we not think Franklin would have averaged 19ppg for TN Martin?  i would think so.  i'll agree that it seems safe to say they're better than Al.  so, yeah, i guess i would think we come out ahead, but easily?  or by a lot?  i hope so.  point being if we could have kept Franklin AND added those guys... oh well.  

I am confident our backcourt will be significantly better than last season. Do we not remember how many games between Franklin having injuries and Rob and Al being no shows we got next to nothing from our backcourt? It seemed like a constant theme in our loses. We had one of the best front court players in the country and managed to finish under .500; that's a pretty big indictment on our backcourt IMO. 

That said, yes, I think having Franklin would be better than not having him. I'm not sure who is better between Stewart and Franklin; I know Stewart's freshman year in a P5 conference was better than Franklin's. 

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51 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Here is a look at the Per Game stats for all 4 players...Franklin, Johnson, Durham, and Stewart...

Stats.PNG.657bfc077c1096c5a9df1f8c19d4e120.PNG

Thanks for posting this, helpful to see it in one place. 

A couple takeaways...

Stewart is easily the best shooting looking at career numbers. He has the highest percentage at the highest volume by far. My hunch is his percentage dropped some at UT Martin because he was forced to create his own 3s more, where as I think at IU we will be able to alleviate some of that pressure with Johnson. 

XJ is easily the best overall offensive player of this group. It's honestly not even close; I cannot wait to see him running PnR with TJD with Hunter sitting in the corner and Stewart on the opposite wing. If the defense doesn't play that perfectly someone is getting a good look. 

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Im a huge Franklin fan, but our backcourt will be improved significantly.  If you watch some film, both stewart and x are much better handling the ball, especially in traffic.  Armaan can definitely shoot, but his handles aren't the best.

X and P-stew both navigate through traffic and finish very well.  We haven't had that since Yogi.

Franklin got tied up quite a bit when going to the basket

Edited by hoosier_exotics
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2 hours ago, go_iu_bb said:

PER (Player Efficiency Rating) for each. These are mostly based on offense with only a few defensive stats used to calculate. It works better for the NBA since the teams all play each other while in the NCAA there can be huge differences in the competition's talent level. Not perfect but gives a decent idea.

These numbers can also vary by position (bigs tend to have much higher numbers) but overall 15 should be average. Around 20 will be all-B1G for guards. Guard play for IU has been a problem for the past few years and these numbers back that up. 

Franklin

19-20: 7.9

20-21: 14.4 

Career: 11.8

Durham

17-18: 9.3

18-19: 9.7

19-20: 14.9

20-21: 13.3

Career: 11.9

Stewart

17-18: 13.7

19-20: 19.2

Career: 16.6

Johnson

18-19: 17.9

19-20: 14.8

20-21: 20.8

Career: 17.2 

For the record Phinisee has had PER of 10.9, 12.8, and 9.3 with 10.9 for his career. That's bad. Really bad. For comparison Yogi had PER of 13.0, 18.9, 21.7, 22.9 and career 19.4.

From this it appears there should be a significant improvement in guard play. We won't know fur sure until the games are played but this indicates we'll have a couple of pretty good guards.

Where do you find PER?

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3 hours ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Where do you find PER?

Go to Indiana and pick the year on Sports Reference.  Great stats place.  PER typically is a good indicator of how well you play.  IUs guards this past year were all bad.  

Edited by IU_Realist
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I really have no ideal other then TJD. I’ve never seen Stewart or Johnson play other then clips. Race, Landers, Geronimo, Leah, Galloway,Rob P, this group has got to improve greatly on offense. The ones that do will play more. 
Hunter I believe will do well in this up tempo shot the ball offense. He has shown he can shot, but he really needs to play defense and rebound better. Brunk will be fine giving TJD a break. 
I am hoping these guys can really improve there shooting because that was our biggest issue under Archie. Lack of consistent shooting. 
I am worried about living on the Three Point Line. If we throw up bricks like we have it won’t be fun to watch. 
we need a couple more shooters on the wings! 
 

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So... we all have our opinions.  We all have pet peeves.  The thing that always gets under my skin on this board are when people talk in absolutes when they can't possibly have it 100%.  It's just their opinion.  Then they can't even consider that they could be wrong.  Anyway... we're all just speculating right?  How about chime in on this.  List the order of who you think will get the most playing time/most likely to start/pecking order off the bench.  I'll start:

1 TJD

2 Johnson

3 Stewart

4 Hunter

5 Thompson

6 Lander

7 Geronimo

8 Phinisee

9 Brunk

10 Leal

11 Galloway

12 Duncomb

Man!  That said, I readily admit after the top 5, I think it's a total crapshoot!  I could see Duncomb surprise me.  Galloway showed a nice feel for the game early against weaker opponents.  I'm banking on Lander being a much different player, but will he?  RP can be very good if he remembers how to play basketball.  I would think Brunk will be very valuable, but literally only play when TJD is out, but likely every minute that he is out?  I am ready to see a competitive IU team!

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2 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

So... we all have our opinions.  We all have pet peeves.  The thing that always gets under my skin on this board are when people talk in absolutes when they can't possibly have it 100%.  It's just their opinion.  Then they can't even consider that they could be wrong.  Anyway... we're all just speculating right?  How about chime in on this.  List the order of who you think will get the most playing time/most likely to start/pecking order off the bench.  I'll start:

1 TJD

2 Johnson

3 Stewart

4 Hunter

5 Thompson

6 Lander

7 Geronimo

8 Phinisee

9 Brunk

10 Leal

11 Galloway

12 Duncomb

Man!  That said, I readily admit after the top 5, I think it's a total crapshoot!  I could see Duncomb surprise me.  Galloway showed a nice feel for the game early against weaker opponents.  I'm banking on Lander being a much different player, but will he?  RP can be very good if he remembers how to play basketball.  I would think Brunk will be very valuable, but literally only play when TJD is out, but likely every minute that he is out?  I am ready to see a competitive IU team!

I think that list seems about right, but I hope we get another player or two that fits into that top 5-7 group or else I think our ceiling won't be as high as we would like. 

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After further review....if the roster stays the same(which we know it won't)...I'll say

TJD 100% chance he starts

Two of the three point guards start (XJ 75%, Lander 60%, Phinesee 50%)

One off guard starts(Stewart 70%...although I think an additional transfer is most likely here. Leal and Galloway have about a 15% chance each of starting)

Either Race 70% or Geronimo30% starts.  

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/11/2021 at 7:18 AM, NCHoosier32 said:

So... we all have our opinions.  We all have pet peeves.  The thing that always gets under my skin on this board are when people talk in absolutes when they can't possibly have it 100%.  It's just their opinion.  Then they can't even consider that they could be wrong.  Anyway... we're all just speculating right?  How about chime in on this.  List the order of who you think will get the most playing time/most likely to start/pecking order off the bench.  I'll start:

1 TJD

2 Johnson

3 Stewart

4 Hunter

5 Thompson

6 Lander

7 Geronimo

8 Phinisee

9 Brunk

10 Leal

11 Galloway

12 Duncomb

Man!  That said, I readily admit after the top 5, I think it's a total crapshoot!  I could see Duncomb surprise me.  Galloway showed a nice feel for the game early against weaker opponents.  I'm banking on Lander being a much different player, but will he?  RP can be very good if he remembers how to play basketball.  I would think Brunk will be very valuable, but literally only play when TJD is out, but likely every minute that he is out?  I am ready to see a competitive IU team!

This is as good of a way as any at looking at it. After the first three, it gets murky. Can't wait for the intel coming from practices this fall about who is looking good, who is playing with who, etc.

Edited by Reacher
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On 4/10/2021 at 2:26 PM, go_iu_bb said:

PER (Player Efficiency Rating) for each. These are mostly based on offense with only a few defensive stats used to calculate. It works better for the NBA since the teams all play each other while in the NCAA there can be huge differences in the competition's talent level. Not perfect but gives a decent idea.

These numbers can also vary by position (bigs tend to have much higher numbers) but overall 15 should be average. Around 20 will be all-B1G for guards. Guard play for IU has been a problem for the past few years and these numbers back that up. 

Franklin

19-20: 7.9

20-21: 14.4 

Career: 11.8

Durham

17-18: 9.3

18-19: 9.7

19-20: 14.9

20-21: 13.3

Career: 11.9

Stewart

17-18: 13.7

19-20: 19.2

Career: 16.6

Johnson

18-19: 17.9

19-20: 14.8

20-21: 20.8

Career: 17.2 

For the record Phinisee has had PER of 10.9, 12.8, and 9.3 with 10.9 for his career. That's bad. Really bad. For comparison Yogi had PER of 13.0, 18.9, 21.7, 22.9 and career 19.4.

From this it appears there should be a significant improvement in guard play. We won't know fur sure until the games are played but this indicates we'll have a couple of pretty good guards.

Rob will need to have a HUGE jump this year to get any minutes. I would not play him currently over any of X, Stewart, Lander, Leal, Galloway or Hunter.  I don't see the minutes for him if he doesn't learn to put the ball in the bucket at a high rate.  He should have transferred to a less competitive school.

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5 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Rob will need to have a HUGE jump this year to get any minutes. I would not play him currently over any of X, Stewart, Lander, Leal, Galloway or Hunter.  I don't see the minutes for him if he doesn't learn to put the ball in the bucket at a high rate.  He should have transferred to a less competitive school.

I agree with you as far as Johnson and Stewart.

Leal, Galloway, and Hunter all had similar PER to Phinisee so they need to make large jumps themselves. Lander's PER was incredibly bad so he needs to make the biggest jump of them all. So I wouldn't go so far as to say I wouldn't play him over any of them, except maybe Hunter and he plays a different position.

Leal: 8.2

Galloway: 7.3

Hunter: 11.0

Lander: 2.8 😲

Phinisee plays good defense so I think he'll get minutes but less than he has been getting. I don't think he'll start.

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1 minute ago, go_iu_bb said:

I agree with you as far as Johnson and Stewart.

Leal, Galloway, and Hunter all had similar PER to Phinisee so they need to make large jumps themselves. Lander's PER was incredibly bad so he needs to make the biggest jump of them all. So I wouldn't go so far as to say I wouldn't play him over any of them, except maybe Hunter and he plays a different position.

Leal: 8.2

Galloway: 7.3

Hunter: 11.0

Lander: 2.8 😲

Phinisee plays good defense so I think he'll get minutes but less than he has been getting. I don't think he'll start.

Yes those are freshman vs a 3 year starting sr.  And i would bet real money that with a different coach, all 3 of them would have been better than Rob by the end of the year.

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