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There has been discussion about Kopp's defense as well as Hunter's in another thread.  And we've seen Coach Fife talk about getting Phinesee back to his best defensively.  My question is simply this.  Knowing that Coach Woodson learned/played man to man in college, do you think there could be any circumstances that would lead him to playing a zone?

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2 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

There has been discussion about Kopp's defense as well as Hunter's in another thread.  And we've seen Coach Fife talk about getting Phinesee back to his best defensively.  My question is simply this.  Knowing that Coach Woodson learned/played man to man in college, do you think there could be any circumstances that would lead him to playing a zone?

I think he will play some zone now and then.  He even talked about it in one of his interviews.

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33 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

There has been discussion about Kopp's defense as well as Hunter's in another thread.  And we've seen Coach Fife talk about getting Phinesee back to his best defensively.  My question is simply this.  Knowing that Coach Woodson learned/played man to man in college, do you think there could be any circumstances that would lead him to playing a zone?

He mentioned playing, man, zone, full court and showing different defense's.  It's going to be awesome!  Would love to see IU apply more pressure and they have the guards to do it.

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Me personally. Just win but man I'd like IU hoops to be fun again in the eye test department. I think my love of IU hoops made me blind to some of the stuff I've watched over the last few years. I'm not saying go full Crean in peak years when D was optional at all times but if we need to start winning games 83-75 on the regular I'm fine with that. The 61-52 games wore me out. 

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1 hour ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

He mentioned playing, man, zone, full court and showing different defense's.  It's going to be awesome!  Would love to see IU apply more pressure and they have the guards to do it.

Exactly.  Don’t sit like ducks in the same defense that’s predictable, especially if it’s not working against a particular foe.  Extend the defense and have the guards pressure shooters better.  Put stress on the ball in the half court.  Wear the bad guys down.  But be heavily conditioned so you can win late.  You can’t be everything to everybody so get our priorities in line.

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We are going to play multiple defenses and find schemes to take away the top 1-2 options on the other team. 

NBA defensive schemes are much more advanced than college because they have to be, and I think a lot of that is going to show up for IU moving forward. 

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1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

We are going to play multiple defenses and find schemes to take away the top 1-2 options on the other team. 

NBA defensive schemes are much more advanced than college because they have to be, and I think a lot of that is going to show up for IU moving forward. 

Are NBA defensive schemes really that much more advanced?(Genuinely curious, I don’t follow it much). I thought that the opposite was true since almost every player is ultra athletic most defenses just switch everything.

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1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

We are going to play multiple defenses and find schemes to take away the top 1-2 options on the other team. 

NBA defensive schemes are much more advanced than college because they have to be, and I think a lot of that is going to show up for IU moving forward. 

I hope so.  The last few years, I’ve been jealous watching other teams that can switch between man and zone and do both effectively.  We went from Crean and... whatever he was trying to do on defense, to Archie, who refused to ever make any adjustments no matter how badly we were getting killed hedging ball screens or losing three point shooters.  Would be nice to finally have a coach with an effective defensive philosophy.

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4 minutes ago, madmax said:

Are NBA defensive schemes really that much more advanced?(Genuinely curious, I don’t follow it much). I thought that the opposite was true since almost every player is ultra athletic most defenses just switch everything.

There is a lot of switching and rotating in the NBA, but I do think that is more advanced than what we see in college. I'd argue the fact that college teams don't have to switch and can sit back at 16' feet shows the difference in the game at the two levels, and not in a way that favors college. 

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13 hours ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

He mentioned playing, man, zone, full court and showing different defense's.  It's going to be awesome!  Would love to see IU apply more pressure and they have the guards to do it.

i would love this

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8 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

There is a lot of switching and rotating in the NBA, but I do think that is more advanced than what we see in college. I'd argue the fact that college teams don't have to switch and can sit back at 16' feet shows the difference in the game at the two levels, and not in a way that favors college. 

Good point. You have less room for error because the shooters are SO much better in the NBA. If you’re not in the face of a shooter it has a high chance of going in. With some shooters, if a defender is not within 2 feet of them it has 50% chance of going in. Guessing that’s why you don’t seem much pack line in the NBA. Haha. 

Since zone became legal in the NBA coaches find creative ways to use it. I looked up Thibideau’s scheme because i know he used a hybrid zone in Chicago. I think I’m explaining this right: a hybrid zone is man to man on the strong side and a zone on the weak side. Thus, he can double team while zoning on the other side of the floor, but it’s going to require the defenders to rotate faster than the offense can rotate the ball. Now, I have no idea if this is used in college or if it can be used in college. Do CBB players have the athleticism to rotate fast enough? Is this a scheme Woody wants to borrow from? 

...I’m such a layperson when it comes to X’s and O’s...so i may not be understanding that correctly. 

I do remember CMW saying that he wants to switch on screens, which I believe is very NBA-ish, but again the athleticism in the NBA can make this effective because so many players can guard multiple positions. I think (and I hope) Woody is going to adjust his defensive strategy to the IQ and athleticism of his roster, rather than force a scheme on players who are not suited to execute it. 

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I think we're goign to be better looking overall and feel like a much better team but i could see us around the 7-9 conference finishing.  It takes time to gel with all the new faces.  With learning new offensive schemes and then throw new defensive schemes on top of that.  But i think just watching the game we will see and feel that players are more developed and that we have a better product on the floor.  Even if it doesn't immediately translate to wins on the board.

I could also be completely off base and we win 26 games next year.  Who knows.

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So after TJD, relatively speaking I would say the talent gap between 2-13 isnt that big. Do you think CMW will have the guys go balls to the wall on defense and push the tempo on offense and sub frequently?  Not the line change thing Cal did a few years back, but just keep throwing fresh legs at the other team and try to literally run the other team outa the gym. 🤷‍♂️

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10 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I think we're goign to be better looking overall and feel like a much better team but i could see us around the 7-9 conference finishing.  It takes time to gel with all the new faces.  With learning new offensive schemes and then throw new defensive schemes on top of that.  But i think just watching the game we will see and feel that players are more developed and that we have a better product on the floor.  Even if it doesn't immediately translate to wins on the board.

I could also be completely off base and we win 26 games next year.  Who knows.

If we finish 7-9 in the league next year I’ll be extremely disappointed. Based on the losses of a lot of the other teams and the gains in personnel we made, I expect much better. It will be a wasted opportunity if next year ends up being more of a learning experience. I get what you’re saying, but we have too much talent to throw TJD’s last year away.

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27 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

If we finish 7-9 in the league next year I’ll be extremely disappointed. Based on the losses of a lot of the other teams and the gains in personnel we made, I expect much better. It will be a wasted opportunity if next year ends up being more of a learning experience. I get what you’re saying, but we have too much talent to throw TJD’s last year away.

Plus how many seniors? 

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16 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

Plus how many seniors? 

Not necessarily all seniors but here are the guys in their fourth plus year of CBB:

XJ 

Phinisee 

Race 

Hunter 

Kopp 

Stewart 

 

 

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8 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Not necessarily all seniors but here are the guys in their fourth plus year of CBB:

XJ 

Phinisee 

Race 

Hunter 

Kopp 

Stewart 

 

 

yah, I know. I am a natural pessimist. So I am going to just assume they are gone. If 1 or more stays, pleasantly surprised. harder to let me down that way. 

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9 hours ago, kyhoosier29 said:

If we finish 7-9 in the league next year I’ll be extremely disappointed. Based on the losses of a lot of the other teams and the gains in personnel we made, I expect much better. It will be a wasted opportunity if next year ends up being more of a learning experience. I get what you’re saying, but we have too much talent to throw TJD’s last year away.

can't disagree.  On paper we're tough.  But i have seen this same argument year over year for multiple teams across multiple sports and it usually ends in disappointment.  If we are better than last year i will be happy.  If we look to get better down the stretch, i will be happy.  If we play basketball with purpose and heart, I will be happy.  Even if our records doesn't indicate that.  But we should have a better record with the talent we have this year.  Its all going to come down to coaching now.  The pieces are there.

 

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As long as they play one defenses at a high level it should be a vast improvement from what we've seen over the past several years. If they can play multiple defenses, even better. Having some bigger, more physical and athletic guards should help no matter what D they play.

It's going to be interesting because everything I've read about the offense says it is not easy to learn. So learning a new offense and a new defense means CMW and his staff have their work cut out for them. It's entirely possible things will be ugly early.

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12 hours ago, kyhoosier29 said:

If we finish 7-9 in the league next year I’ll be extremely disappointed. Based on the losses of a lot of the other teams and the gains in personnel we made, I expect much better. It will be a wasted opportunity if next year ends up being more of a learning experience. I get what you’re saying, but we have too much talent to throw TJD’s last year away.

I guarantee we won't go 7-9 in the conference since we  play 20 conference games.

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