BGleas

Ok. You quoted me saying, "yet you're on record saying he's earned a 4th year.", so I thought you were saying that about me?

I'm also on record in those same exact posts saying he shouldn't get a 4th year, and that deserving it is irrelevant to the decision the powers that be need to make. Deserving it and thinking he should get it are not the same thing. I've said numerous times that I think a change should happen this offseason.

If I was taking over this program, I'd have to think long and hard about whether I'd want to keep Reneau. Again, a great kid and immensely talented offensively, just not sure I can win with him.

Shared this via PM with a poster, but figured I'd share here too. We have some posters that are more pro-coach than others, meaning they prefer to give coaches more time to turn things around and don't love the constant coaching turnover. I used to lean more that way. I defended Crean and Archie longer than many did. If I remember, I don't think I was "fire Archie" until February of his last season. So, why am I quicker to the "fire Woodson" bandwagon? You'd think an IU guy should get more leeway, right? Especially since he got us to B2B tournaments. Two main reasons. 1) I'm just tired of being mediocre. I'm tired of losing, etc., but... 2) I feel with Woodson we've had a bit of a bait and switch on his system/style. I just don't trust him to turn it around. I didn't love Archie's system either. But Archie owned his system. We knew what it was and what we were getting, so I had a sense that if "he could just get 'his' guys" in his system we'd be OK. Crean had a system too. It had its flaws as well, but he had some proven success with it, and we knew when recruited too right we could win. My opinion is that Woodson hasn't been upfront (I'd don't mean purposely lying or anything) with what his system or style is. I'm not sure he knows what it is. So, without college experience and some of the other trends and issues, I frankly just don't trust him to turn this around. I'm ready for a change and think it needs to happen this offseason.

Yeah, Reneau is just a tough case. Like you said, he has improved so much, and he's incredibly skilled offensively. I just don't know how you win with him? He's not a good enough rebounder or defender to be a 5 all season, especially in the Big Ten. But he's also a really bad fit at the 4 in a 2-big lineup in the modern basketball, and is also a liability as a rebounder and defensive player at the 4. While being extremely skilled offensively, at the 4 he clogs the land, and in general he forces a lot of shots and isn't a willing passer. Again, he seems like a phenomenal person and has a ton of skill, just not sure you can win with him long term.

Definitely interesting how refs seems to pick and choose who gets certain treatment.

Completely agree on Reneau. I can't remember if I posted this publicly last offseason, but definitely traded PM's with some folks, that Reneau was a worry for me heading into the season in terms of fit. He's a square peg in a round hole on this roster. Don't get me wrong, he seems like a phenomenal kid/person and is an extremely talented and skilled offensive player. With that said, I'm not sure yet if he's a "winning" player. His comp reminds me of Julius Randle at the NBA level. Randle has a ton of talent, is extremely skilled offensively, but takes a ton of shots, doesn't play good D, and frankly while he is talented and a 2-time All-Star, I'd hate it if my Celtics acquired him.

Geez, now a Rutgers player blocked a Maryland shot and screamed after the play and they called a Tech on him. This is just absurd.

Another thing that doesn't make sense for the "XJ and Galloway meant we couldn't add another guard" stance, is how did we add Reneau when we already had TJD and Race? How did we add Michael Durr when we already had TJD and Race? How did we add Walker and Sparks when we already had Ware and Reneau? There wasn't a guard that can shoot anywhere willing to come in and compete for minutes?

Completely agree. I remember when the Ledlum recruitment was going down, I was hoping we'd land him as a 4, but didn't want him if it was going to be as a wing. MM is a college 4. I even feel bad for Banks. I understand he hadn't exactly earned minutes, but he's also been played completely out of position. He's not a spot-up shooting or driving wing, he's a college 4. Put these guys out there at the 4 surrounded by dynamic guards and wings, and maybe they and the overall product looks better.

Big Ten refs are the worst. Maryland kid finished a layup in traffic and yelled And 1 and the ref gave him a Tech. Just ridiculous.

Kind of leads to my biggest disappointment/frustration to this point. Given Woodson's own comments at times during his first two seasons, and how we lost to teams with skill, athleticism and multiple playmakers (Miami for example, but several others), I was expecting an overhaul to the system/style last offseason. Yet, we came back with the same two bigs in the paint, lack of shooting, lack of guard talent, lack of playmaking, etc., etc. At this point you just have to believe that this is what Woodson wants the team to look like, and I don't like that.

That's partly why I chose Zeisloft as my comp here. He averaged 6ppg at Illinois St before coming to IU. That type of guy isnt going to require a big NIL payout or promise of playing time, yet can still have a material impact.

Agree or disagree, the argument can be made that there wasn't a top-flight transfer guard that was going to come because we had XJ and Galloway returning. Those guys, if healthy, were always going to play a lot of minutes. If I remember correctly, I think i was even saying that last offseason. But for a team that is so bad at shooting, you're telling me there wasn't a Nick Zeisloft type that we could have added? A guy that was a straight shooter and maybe not super high on the transfer rankings lists? Remember, Zeisloft averaged like 6ppg at Ill St., and Crean took a ton of heat for that recruitment, but surrounded by talent, Ziesloft was a very key piece on a Big Ten title/Sweet Sixteen team. We couldn't have added one guy like that?

I agree with you on a change needing to happen, I'm completely with you there, but people are allowed to have different opinions. Wanting Woodson to have a 4th, or even just being ok with that, doesn't make someone a troll.

Agree. I think my real issue though is these things seem to get held against Tatum, but you don't hear it about Embiid, Doncic, Jokic (before winning the title) and several other young(ish) stars. Maybe the price of playing in Boston. Just a higher standard. But the clip from Bob Myers and Wilbon's response is just laughable.

I know I won't get a ton of sympathy on my Celtics here, but this clip drives me nuts. I know the Celtics need to finish the deal this season, I get that. But the Tatum criticism is crazy. After Myers said this, Wilbon chimed in and said, "yeah, do that and the criticism goes away." Um, Tatum has beaten all of those guys in the playoffs already. Throw Durant in too, hes beaten him in the playoffs too. He's outplayed all of them in playoff series. He'll, Embiid has never gotten out of the 2nd round, ever.

I think it's going to move even more in that direction. Adam Silver was saying earlier this week that with NIL the G-League Ignite thing is basically failing and they're exploring what to do with that. He said they're talking with the NCAA on how to improve l things, etc. I could see the Power 5/6 at some point breaking away from the NCAA and becoming part of some sort of true NBA-affiliated feeder system.

I like these! I'm just glad Indiana is doing something, anything that's fun and modern.

🤣

Yeah, as much as I think IU needs a change, if things fall right this is also really fixable. If Woodson can convince the right guys to come back and he has a pretty solid track record of getting guys to return/not transfer. But, he's going to have to change how he recruits and the style of play. McNeely, while obviously a great shooter, is more athletic and explosive than MM. Get McNeely at the 3, MM at the 4 and Reneau at the 5. Galloway back. Then go hit the transfer portal hard for veteran guards and wings that are smart, tough and can create and/or make shots. Problem is, it could just as easily go other way where we lose almost all of those guys and it's basically a rebuild.

Not a fan of how they're trying to push the G-League in this Rising Stars game. Having a G-League Team in this takes opportunity away from rookies and "sophomores" that are actually in the NBA.