HMSHoosier

This is not intended on going after anybody or anything, nor am I trying to ruffle any feathers.  Been catching up on a lot of the threads and every now and then I will see someone post about IU being mediocre(not that I disagree).  That just got me thinking though.  Is there a certain era of IU basketball that everyone compares to, or is it comparing to all of Coach Knights time at IU?  Is it wins and losses? Is it a tourney run?  Again this is not directed at anyone or trying to ruffle anybody up it just got me thinking of what my expectations should be moving forward.

I was born in '77 so I hardly remember the '81 championship but my expectations have always been to get back to the time from '81 to around '94 because IU was usually fairly high ranked, in the running for BIG titles and making deep tourney runs. In the last six years under Knight things started going downhill in my opinion.  There was the '02 run to the championship game but at no point through that season did I think that was going to happen if I'm being honest. Then I got some hope for a few years under Crean but we all know how that ended.

I look forward to what everyone thinks.

1 minute ago, MoyeCowbell said:

The harsh truth is this won't happen every 3-4 years if the program simply hired high-level, experienced college coaches right from the beginning.

Totally agree. I wasn't thrilled with the last 2 hires but I guess I had hope since Woodson played here in the hay day of IU basketball he would put in the work to get it back to where it once was. Boy was I wrong!

So I was one of the few that was wanting Woodson to get another year at least, mainly because I'm tired of this same thing happening every 3-4 years and quit frankly I thought he deserved it.  I want someone in place where something can be built and have some long term sustainability.

With that being said I and what has went down yesterday I'm officially done and he needs to go! If I wasn't doing my job no matter how long I had been there or what i had done for them in the past I would be fired immediately. Get somebody in there that gives a damn and wants to do the job not just earn a paycheck.

6 hours ago, Indykev said:

not to derail a great thread but that number is going to be 7 maybe 8, i'm going with that. only 1 signed. going to be a busy summer for someone.

Is this something you want or do you have info no one else has?  8 new players came in this year, why would anyone want that much roster turnover every year? You will never get any consistently replacing that many players a year!

That's one thing I've noticed on here. Some of the same ones on here wanting the Coach fired are also wanting all the players gone, it just doesn't add up to me. Which is it the players or the coach or do we just want to keep starting from scratch every year? There will never be any stability if we keep overhauling every 3-4 years. 

2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I’m not justifying anything about this Michigan State team, but they are still in position to get a good enough seed to make a run to the second weekend.

We are in position where we may miss the NIT.

The comparison isn’t bad just because of the history of the two coaches, it’s bad because of the position the two teams are in right now is drastically different. 

If you think they are in a better position because of their remaining schedule I would agree since they play the bottom half of the league twice. If we lose today we would have the same record. The only thing they have is a win against Baylor.

7 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Michigan State is in a significantly better spot to make the tournament than we are. I would hope that our AD would laugh at any comparison of Woody to Izzo in terms of a justification for Woody.

Woody getting another year is pretty simple IMO. He needs to show he is willing to adjust both in terms of his scheme and his roster construction. He can’t fix the roster now so you’ll have to give him the offseason for that, but he can tweak his scheme in meaningful ways.

If he is unwilling to adjust he should go. He absolutely doesn’t have the track record at any level to say he deserves more time if he isn’t willing to adapt. 

I'm not comparing them in terms of what they have accomplished in their coaching career. What I am pointing out is Izzo has essentially the same team last year that went to the S16 and so far everybody has had some sort of reasoning why it's ok for that to happen. On the flip side Woody has a relatively new team with alot of new pieces and he has no grace from the fans for down year.

10 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

It’s partially Izzo’s fault, just like it’s partially Woody’s fault. 

Difference is, I bet Izzo will still make the tournament. Why do I make that bet? Based on his past success of turning teams around and getting them to play well during the most important stretch of the season. 

I don’t know if Woody can do that, which is why I still think he needs another year, but also is exactly why Izzo should rightfully get more leeway than Woody. Hence, the bad comparison. 

Who are you betting on to make the tournament? IU? MSU? Neither? Or Both? 

At this point I don't see either making the tournament. If you asked me at the beginning of the season though I would have MSU would 100% make the tournament because they were returning all their key players.

7 minutes ago, rico said:

Pretty much this same team made the Sweet Sixteen last year.  Izzo is a bad comp to Woody.

I'm not comparing Izzo to Woodson. My comparison is the reaction of fans, and how things on here are viewed differently for different coaches.

14 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

They weren’t that good last year by their standards. They don’t have the same size and skill up front they normally have. They also don’t rebound well, which has been an Izzo staple

So that's Izzo's fault right? Since he built the team.

I know I'm going to get "beat up" for my thought as I'm not in the majority, and that's fine. I do have experience of being apart of a team for a better part of 25 years and still going. It's not basketball but it's still essentially the same as there are 25 people involved. The longer you can keep the team together the stronger you will get and you can stay at the top of the sport. The more that change happens the more uncertainty you will have every year. As far as the development argument goes If I don't work on my craft than I will never get better or help the team get better. I can't wait around for the leader to force me to get better or we will all suffer. 

Just my 2 cents

59 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I’d say Izzo has earned a little leeway.  Per Wiki…

Izzo has led the Spartans to eight Final Fours in the NCAA Tournament, which include the NCAA National Championship in 2000 and a Runner-Up finish in 2009. His teams have won ten Big Ten regular season titlesand six Big Ten tournament titles in his 28 years at Michigan State. Izzo has the most wins in school history and has appeared in 25 consecutive NCAA tournaments, the longest streak of tournament appearances all-time in men's college basketball. He has never had a losing season as a head coach.^[4] In addition, MSU set the Big Ten record for the longest home court winning streak between 1998 and 2002. Several of these accomplishments led former ESPN analyst Andy Katz to deem Michigan State the top college basketball program for the decade of 1998 to 2007.^[5]

Izzo is currently the longest-tenured coach in the Big Ten Conferenceand his teams are often recognized for their rebounding prowess and defensive tenacity. He has won four national coach of the year awards and maintains a considerable coaching tree—several of his former assistants are currently head coaches at other Division I schools. Izzo has won 10 regular-season conference titles, the third most in conference history. He has also won the most Big Ten tourney titles (six) in conference history.

On March 6, 2022, Izzo surpassed Bob Knight for the most wins by a men's basketball coach at a Big Ten school with 663.

I totally agree he deserves the leeway to have down year. That's also why I think Coach Woodson deserves some leeway too. He made the tournament in his first 2 years with mainly upperclassmen. Now after losing the top 4 players from a year ago a lot of people are calling for his job after 2 1/2 years, and are ready to start all over again.

I don't go to other teams boards to see what they are saying about their coaches, but I was curious what's everyone's thoughts on Tom Izzo. I would assume most people would feel he's a pretty damn good coach, right? Did he forget how to coach this year, or is he not "developing" players or is he not adjusting his coaching to the players he has? He essentially has the same team from last year, 76% of minutes played returned from last year and 75% of scoring returned from last year. He has one win against against a ranked opponent as they stomped Baylor. On the flip side they lost to Wisconsin at home by 13, lost at Nebraska by 8 (which from what I've seen is its unacceptable to lose to them), lost at Northwestern by 14, and lost at Wisconsin by 15.

Their record is 12-8, so did he forget how to coach? Maybe their fans are saying the same thing as many on here are I personally don't know. Would the same ones on here be calling for his job as well if he was IU's coach just curious?

1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

Good post.  We don't know everything and we all don't have to agree on everything either.  

What are your thoughts on leaving a scholarship left open when everyone on this board was aware of the need back in like March or april?

I would think the staff looked at all the options available and probably determined either no one fit what they are doing or the players they were looking at that wound up going to other schools for one reason or another. I don't think they purposefully left it open.

I do feel their priorities were probably on trying to get some inside players initially since Malik was the only big left and there were 6 guards either upperclassman/ incoming freshman already committed to the roster. I know as a fan I was more concerned about getting some inside players to help with what was lost. I guess I would have to take time and go back and look who was available at the time to see if maybe I would have like to see them try to get a certain player. I do remember they were talking to Love from UNC. I'm sure there were others, but that one just sticks out because I'm in North Carolina and everybody kept telling me you don't want him (UNC fans).

I don't post much but thought I would give my 2 cents worth.  I was at the game on Saturday and what started out to be very promising turned into a s***show.  I agree to substitution pattern definitely sucked, but in my opinion what changed the game a lot was after the timeout when IU was up 10 or 12 the game changed physically. It went from basketball to more of a tackle basketball kinda like what Rutgers plays, and they never tried to punch back. We sat on the side line and it was hard to watch our interior players literally getting grabbed and held and nothing get called.

That being said there are other things I personally noticed. 

1.) Ware and Malik need to figure out or do a better job of recognizing the double and sometimes triple teams and get rid of the ball. 

2.) I think there needs to be more set plays to actually free up shooters to get 3 point shots. Personally I think we have good shooters but their never put in situations to actually get into a rhythm. Early in that game when everything was flowing the shots were going in.

I seen in a bunch of places that Woodson shouldn't have sat Galloway with 2 fouls in the first half. While I will agree that he should have brought back in at some point to maybe help, but everybody on here knows if he would have done that and Galloway picked up a 3rd foul everybody would be saying why did he put him back in. We are 7-2, yes we got blown out twice and that sucks, but also remember that this is basically a whole new team with 8 new players. Not making excuses but to think we were going to be as good as last year to start this year was a reach after losing 4 starters and top 4 point getters. I think as the season goes on we will have up and down moments but in the end I feel they will be pretty good.