rico Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 I think we got more important things to worry about other than students attending the games and a Newkirk/Green debate. I just want wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said: I thought you said that you played whoever gave you the best chance to win the game.....these five are our best players and Rob hasn’t been turning it over as frequently as of late I, for one, agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier82 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said: I thought you said that you played whoever gave you the best chance to win the game.....these five are our best players and Rob hasn’t been turning it over as frequently as of late If you mean last night only then yes, he has turned it over less “as of late”. How frequent is acceptable? He (as an off guard) has turned the ball over 2.5 times a game over the last 5 games. Now you want the ball in his hands more??? Can’t believe someone is trying to reignite the RoJo for point guard argument again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said: If you mean last night only then yes, he has turned it over less “as of late”. How frequent is acceptable? He (as an off guard) has turned the ball over 2.5 times a game over the last 5 games. Now you want the ball in his hands more??? Can’t believe someone is trying to reignite the RoJo for point guard argument again. Based on the alternatives, I say it gives us the best shot to win. That was post I was responding to. Newkirk certainly isn’t the answer. He has had nearly 50 games in the last 2 seasons to get it done and has failed to do so. Obviously there are others on this board that feel differently which makes for excellent debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohete15 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 I would certainly like to see the Hall filled every game, but I can’t blame anyone for not showing up to the balcony seats when they could sit next to their friends at a bar, in front of a 60” HD TV and a couple pitchers of beer. It would be great if they just made those balcony seats a first come, first served basis. Bring $5 or a couple canned goods, or something and get a seat in the balcony. Then charge for games like Duke, Purdue, MSU. Hell, the cheapest seat on stubhub for Sunday is like $160 in the balcony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 30 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said: I thought you said that you played whoever gave you the best chance to win the game.....these five are our best players and Rob hasn’t been turning it over as frequently as of late He is not a point guard and you just to don't make a lineup of who you think are the best players. They have to fit together and play well together and having Johnson being the point guard does not give you the best chance to win. Johnson is better off the ball coming off screens than creating on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 RoJo can't thrive as the Point. He isn't quick enough or skilled enough to make his own shots open up. He needs to trail and move on the wings to get his open 3. Newkirk and Green are both disappointments at point and in different ways. Newkirk just doesn't have a good BB IQ. He take ill advised shots and just isn't very good. Green on the other hand at times shows he has skills to get to the hole, create his own shot and bury a jumper. Then he makes stupid passes, gets lazy with the ball and gets pickpocketed and does things you just shake your head at. Then he will make a pass that just leaves you astounded he did that. Maybe you put green at the point and leave him there for a full game. Let him play through the excitement and jitters and find his game. I don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Ballin Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Ok, im a little late to the Green, Al, Newkirk party here; but ill throw my 2 cents in anyway. I think Green has the potential to be the best all around guard on the team. He needs to learn that the espn top 10 play isnt always the best play. I think he os bay far the best passer on the team, a good shooter and can create for himself and get to the basket. Unfortunatly he gets himself into WAY too much trouble and his decision making needs improvement. Newkirk is Newkirk. He can get hot and do a lot of good things. He's a decent shooter and pretty good at getting to the rim. His ceiling though isn't as high as the rest of the guards. He makes almost as many bonehead plays and isn't quite the defender Green is. Al.....Al has done some REALLY good things this year and some REALLY bad things this year. He will show flashes of brilliance and then 30 seconds later remind you he's still a freshman. I think the majority of his issues get fixed with time. All that said, I think CAM is having the same discussion with the rest of the coaches that we are having here. Last night showed that because it was a revolving door between the 3 guards. Newkirk would chuck one into the cheap seats n Green would come in. Green would try to go 1 on 4 then Al would come in. Al would throw the ball to the team in red and Newkirk would come back in. I think he is giving the guys a chance to take hold of that spot, but its like a hot potato that none of them want to hold onto that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, IU Scott said: He is not a point guard and you just to don't make a lineup of who you think are the best players. They have to fit together and play well together and having Johnson being the point guard does not give you the best chance to win. Johnson is better off the ball coming off screens than creating on his own. It is certainly not a cut and dried situation. Although not ideal, I do feel that having those 5 on the floor for a bulk of the minutes gives us the best opportunity to win consistently (if Rob can handle the ball and not turn it over in excess). Newkirk may be a point guard but IMO, his performance since coming to IU doesn’t justify the minutes he gets. Having him on the floor as much as he is hurts instead of helps as far as I am concerned. I may be way off but I just don’t see where he brings much value to this team on either end of the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierFaithful Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 I think Newkirk makes a lot more boneheaded moves than people give him credit for. A long two is a turnover in my mind. He loves long two's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohete15 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 I probably wouldn’t play Al more than about 4 minutes a game, if that. I would rotate Josh, Rob and Devonte. I would give Al’s minutes to Moore and play bigger. Let Moore play weakside to Morgan. Al can be a good player. But the reality is, he was a low ranked PG out of Georgia who needs to add some bulk. He really doesn’t add much on either end, nor should he necessarily be expected to given his status coming out of HS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtsIUDomer Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 I'll weigh in also now that i'm caught up. It seems to me often that Green looks 'dis-interested', maybe it's just his look. I don't pretend to know how he practices, but i have to wonder if he is still struggling with the new system/coaching. He does show flashes of brilliance, and complete lunacy. My son thinks he looks unhappy and bets he'll transfer at seasons end. I hope not, I like his upside. I remember VO had some crazy moments his Soph year too, Highs and lows. At THIS point in THIS season (using my HTD!! font), if i had to pick I'd go more with Green,,just for gained PT experience for next year. But it's almost a toss up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 There's more to basketball than making some shots and turnovers. There's helpside defense, communication on both ends, positioning, spacing, understanding where the ball needs to go, getting the team into sets, understanding situations, etc. It shows how poor our options are right now, but currently it's not even close that Newkirk is the best option. Someone said it a page or two ago, but yes Newkirk makes some boneheaded plays, but not all boneheaded plays/mistakes are created equal. You can tolerate it when a boneheaded play comes within the context of the team, but when your boneheaded plays consistently come from freelancing, etc. (Green) it's tough for the coach to trust you. Newkirk is our most consistent ball handler, most consistent shooter, and on a team that is beginning to hang its hat on defense he is our 2nd best guard defender (I consider McRoberts a wing). Green is WAY too much of a wildcard right now. Newkirk is certainly flawed, but right now he's the most reliable our of the three (Newkirk, Green, Al). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 49 minutes ago, ColtsIUDomer said: At THIS point in THIS season (using my HTD!! font), if i had to pick I'd go more with Green,,just for gained PT experience for next year. But it's almost a toss up. The NCAA Tournament is certainly a long-shot right now, but it would send a horrible message to a team that is in 5th place in the conference and be a slap in the face to guys like Morgan, RoJo and McRoberts who are playing their tails off, to begin playing guys for "next year". This team still has some things to play for this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Seeking6 said: 5-3 at this point is just really, really impressive. I know some will say weak conference, drinking IU Kool Aid,etc....but with this roster and team to have us at 5-3 down Davis is just awesome. Maybe a team starts to take on a persona of it's coach? Can't wait to see what we have with some more talent. With the games coming we could be 6-6 very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Good discussion guys. I'd add that Al is a frosh and he's sort of hit the frosh wall. Let's not forget how he started, he did not turn it over for multiple games. He needs to develop a consistent jumper, but he has the tools to be a good college guard, his ranking is completely irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 1. Nice solid win. Could have lost it, so I like the ability to finish off a game and make the right plays to win. That's not automatic. 2. Our fan base is amazing. They helped pull that out even if there were some no-shows. 3. I am glad that Zach looked at the basket. He showed he can hit it and there's no reason why he can't put up a few shots per game. At MSU, he wouldn't even look at the basket. Also, at the end, those free throws were brutal. Even my wife looked up and said "why is he rushing those free throws?" 4. Rob was phenomenal at MSU and I really liked his aggression and confidence. Let's hope he has a big second semester senior year, as we have seen by many guys who really turn it on at that juncture. 5. The officiating was embarrassing. In addition to the calls that other members pointed out, at one point Rob blocked somebody out and the guy behind him initiated contact and they called it on Rob? 6. Juwan was amazing. 'nuf said. 7. He's not my favorite, but I think you gotta keep running Josh out there. He makes some ill advised plays but there is effort by and large. Durham has turned very shaky. I think he will be a fine 4 year rotational guard, though. Green is probably my favorite talent but the light bulb is just not on yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 28 minutes ago, Indykev said: With the games coming we could be 6-6 very quickly. Yep. And 5-3 is still very impressive given this roster and a transition year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohete15 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 35 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Good discussion guys. I'd add that Al is a frosh and he's sort of hit the frosh wall. Let's not forget how he started, he did not turn it over for multiple games. He needs to develop a consistent jumper, but he has the tools to be a good college guard, his ranking is completely irrelevant. His ranking is relevant in terms of what to expect from him this year. He’s playing like a 3-star, 150th ranked, freshman kid, and that’s fine right now. We are playing big boy basketball now. I don’t expect skinny, less talented freshmen to contribute. I do expect very talented, D1 bodied kids like Justin Smith to contribute. The 3 game stretch of no turnovers is great. But that’s those 3 games. None of this is a knock on Al. I think he could end up like a RoJo as a junior and senior. But he shouldn’t be playing right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, cohete15 said: His ranking is relevant in terms of what to expect from him this year. He’s playing like a 3-star, 150th ranked, freshman kid, and that’s fine right now. We are playing big boy basketball now. I don’t expect skinny, less talented freshmen to contribute. I do expect very talented, D1 bodied kids like Justin Smith to contribute. The 3 game stretch of no turnovers is great. But that’s those 3 games. None of this is a knock on Al. I think he could end up like a RoJo as a junior and senior. But he shouldn’t be playing right now. Just my opinion, not knocking yours. I don't think his HS ranking has any relevance. It wasn't just three games, he played multiple games that earned him starts by barely turning the ball over. He's a solid looking young player, but yes, he's a frosh and I agree he's not a really big kid -- though regardless of size to me it's more that he has hit the proverbial frosh wall. Most frosh do. And he is playing less now because he's not contributing on the level that he was before. I do think he's going to be a good veteran player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 41 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said: 7. He's not my favorite, but I think you gotta keep running Josh out there. He makes some ill advised plays but there is effort by and large. Durham has turned very shaky. I think he will be a fine 4 year rotational guard, though. Green is probably my favorite talent but the light bulb is just not on yet. If that light bulb turns on then we are a different team. No doubt about it, but he's running out of time. (may even be too late) Now that Rob is starting to get some of his mojo back and Juwan has taken it to another level, we need a guy who can create, not only his own shot, but create opportunities for the offense. While I'm 'team Newkirk' for now, I think Green is realistically the only one who can be that guy to take us to another level. It's a lot of wishful thinking, but MAN, if Green steps into that role we become multi-dimensional on the offensive end. We'd go from a team who may be able to limp into the tournament to a team who could do some damage and get to the second weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 5 hours ago, tdhoosier said: It's IU. every night is a party night except for Sunday. Monday: happy hour all night at Kilroys Tuesday: 1/2 price wine at Crazy Horse Wednesday: $.15 drafts at Bluebird Thursday - Saturday: Go all out I think the students can manage some Monday and Friday night games. haha. *Forgive me if some of the specials changed since I left....it's been 15 years. Oh they have. $2 Tuesday at Roys and $3 Thursday at Sports. Can't beat drinking in a college town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 2 hours ago, tdhoosier said: If that light bulb turns on then we are a different team. No doubt about it, but he's running out of time. (may even be too late) Now that Rob is starting to get some of his mojo back and Juwan has taken it to another level, we need a guy who can create, not only his own shot, but create opportunities for the offense. While I'm 'team Newkirk' for now, I think Green is realistically the only one who can be that guy to take us to another level. It's a lot of wishful thinking, but MAN, if Green steps into that role we become multi-dimensional on the offensive end. We'd go from a team who may be able to limp into the tournament to a team who could do some damage and get to the second weekend. I agree. Green was the best player in the off-season for a reason and could actually make us a very scary lower seed team. But, until he brings it consistently in a game you've got to keep his leash short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 5 hours ago, cohete15 said: Hell, the cheapest seat on stubhub for Sunday is like $160 in the balcony. That's what I ran into earlier this year...IU ticket prices online were at least 4-5X the price of similar Pacer tickets. Has it been that long since I priced IU basketball tickets?!! Holy cow... Went to the Pacer game instead and saw some really good basketball. No idea why pro tickets would be a lot cheaper than college tickets. It just seemed really out of balance, regardless of the opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUalum Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 21 hours ago, btownqb said: I did though must be a story i haven't heard. i only remember him on crutches between tournament games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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